GUILTY OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #86

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I really don't understand why the defense spent so much time on the murders and how they happened. He has no proof or reason why the way Jake said they happen make no sense. He's trying to prove Jake a liar but doesn't give any plausible reason or proof as to what really happened.
 
Betty P said:
GW4 is very much the Alpha male in those wiretap recordings. He's bossing everyone around, making decisions, accusations and demands of others. Not for a moment was he unaware of what was going on, he was into everyone's business.
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The jury will really notice this I think. That there are 2 George's.

The angry paranoid enmeshed bossy controlling yelling threatening criminal one, and the meek George all rehearsed on the stand, different from his family, worried about truckers losing their jobs due to his dad wanting to rob them, regretting he turned around in Kentucky and went back to live with such horrible people.
 
silenced said:
George didn't. He did not think his family was guilty, he was not guilty, figured there was no chance LE could prove something they did not do. From George's perspective, that is.
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My interpretation of George's rants on audio are a little different. He knew his family was guilty, he didn't think what he did was wrong and shouldn't bow to LE. For those reasons, he felt he didn't need to deal with LE and he was prepared to fight them. Remember the threats he made against them.

George was taught by his father to follow his own rules and ignore, avoid or lie to LE.
 
ColMustard said:
What about ... Was it a text? George telling Jake, "if they have the gun they have the silencer". In response to Schiederer sending Jake a pic of Walther Colt 1911 .22.


Also told them 13 times at the border, nobody could leave the house without me knowing.
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Just got online, many pages behind. Ya'll type fast!

I missed where George 4 told Jake "if they have the gun they have the silencer". Can anyone lead me to this? Testimony or closing argument maybe?

I'm probably not even half way through closing, can you believe it takes me an hour to listen to an hour of closing. ;)
 
Willow Knight said:
Just got online, many pages behind. Ya'll type fast!

I missed where George 4 told Jake "if they have the gun they have the silencer". Can anyone lead me to this? Testimony or closing argument maybe?

I'm probably not even half way through closing, can you believe it takes me an hour to listen to an hour of closing. ;)
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IIRC, it was on the recordings from wiretap in their truck. When he started yelling about a "family emergency" and tried to get their employer to let them go home early.

He said it in response to the text and photo of Jake's gun sent to George by Agent Scheiderer.
 
Why does everything have to happen at the same time? Delphi PCA unsealed, almost verdict watch in this trial, verdict watch on Danny Masterson trial and I'm trying to follow the Idaho murders. Who needs sleep? lol
 
Willow Knight said:
Just got online, many pages behind. Ya'll type fast!

I missed where George 4 told Jake "if they have the gun they have the silencer". Can anyone lead me to this? Testimony or closing argument maybe?

I'm probably not even half way through closing, can you believe it takes me an hour to listen to an hour of closing. ;)
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Increase the playback speed to 1.5x.

Betty provided the answer, and I agree. Thanks Betty, I wasn't able to recall it correctly.
 
pcrum12 said:
If the prosecution turned over the MT border recording to the defense, why wouldn't have George known what he said at border? Surely he did know what he said at the border, right? I firmly believe he had to know. But Why wouldn't the defense team have coached him further on that? Really blows my mind. You know they had the recording, right? Why not come up with story, I was covering for my family because they were being harrassed and I didn't believe they did this? Weird they didn't coach him to that effect. The other side is, if the defense already had the recording, why would it matter if prosecution played it even before George testified? They already had it right? The reason I question the border recording is that even after George lied on the stand, what harm would the prosecution have in playing the recording after he testified to prove to the jury that he lied on the stand? That could have been the Ah HA for the state to the jury in his own words IMO. What was so damaging to the state on that recording? I get what was damaging to the defense, HE LIED. Just weird. Just debating really. Anyone have thoughts on this?
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Was any part of the border recording played in court? If not my thinking is somewhere as in if parts of it are played then all of it must be played. Context. That recording could have areas where neither side wanted played for the jury. Just my opinion, an example would be if parts of the recording can prove George 4 was lying the defense would not want it played. JMO, another example if George 4 states repeatedly that he didn't have knowledge of the murders over and over, the prosecution wouldn't want the jury to hear that over and over.

Or maybe the recording was simply too long and playing it in full could annoy the jury. Many objection and added confusion for the jury.
 
Betty P said:
She only left Yost's office after he announced he wanted to move prosecution of the murder case to Pike County. IOW he wanted to dump it because he thought it cost too much money. He also inferred it wasn't a winnable case.

Not long after that Jake and AW confessed. Boy, did Yost look like a fool. I'm surprised he was re-elected, but most Ohioans outside southern Ohio didn't hear much about these murders after the first month or so.

DeWine engineered the transfer, some funds and assigned Andy Wilson from DeWine's office to help out.
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I remember first hearing/reading about Pike County tragedy and will always remember that day, April 22, Earth Day.
 
pamelado2 said:
I really don't understand why the defense spent so much time on the murders and how they happened. He has no proof or reason why the way Jake said they happen make no sense. He's trying to prove Jake a liar but doesn't give any plausible reason or proof as to what really happened.
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Because if he did it would convict his client and the state did it for him!!! Mr Parker had his chance to represent GW4 in any way he saw fit during the defense case. The sad fact is that there is no way around the states case, as methodical and boring it might have been. Why didn't the defense take each charge and defend GW4 on that charge. The key is conspiracy and being complicit.
 
Willow Knight said:
Was any part of the border recording played in court? If not my thinking is somewhere as in if parts of it are played then all of it must be played. Context. That recording could have areas where neither side wanted played for the jury. Just my opinion, an example would be if parts of the recording can prove George 4 was lying the defense would not want it played. JMO, another example if George 4 states repeatedly that he didn't have knowledge of the murders over and over, the prosecution wouldn't want the jury to hear that over and over.

Or maybe the recording was simply too long and playing it in full could annoy the jury. Many objection and added confusion for the jury.
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You'll see Andrew Wilson say in closing they kept the recording out so George would have to testify on the stand himself if the defense wanted the jury to hear him. (words to that effect and moo imo jmo)
 
Willow Knight said:
Just got online, many pages behind. Ya'll type fast!

I missed where George 4 told Jake "if they have the gun they have the silencer". Can anyone lead me to this? Testimony or closing argument maybe?

I'm probably not even half way through closing, can you believe it takes me an hour to listen to an hour of closing. ;)
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Sorry, I should have clarified this. I do not know if this specific statement got before the jury. I thought it did because the jury was shown the text message Scheiderer sent to George with the text message showing Jake's hand holding a Colt 22 and the text showing what Scheiderer said about it to get a reaction out of George.

Under gun photo Scheiderer says:

George, it's SA Scheiderer from BCI. Would you be available today or tomorrow to meet and discuss the attached photos?

In George's Bond Hearing Scheiderer says he was trying to get a reaction out of George, and that George's reaction was to text his family that they had a "family emergency" and to tell Jake "if they have the gun they have the silencer." And he told Jake "I told you to get rid of your phone."


State investigators outlined why they turned their attention toward the Wagner family in the Pike County massacre, testifying Wednesday that they saw red flags in Facebook messages of the victims as well as discrepancies in an interview with father Billy Wagner.

The testimony came on Day 17 of the murder trial of George Wagner IV

Scheiderer testified (to the jury) those messages showed tensions over custody of her daughter, Sophia, but that Jake told investigators “everything was fine.” The custody dispute over that child is what prosecutors say sparked the murders.

Scheiderer also said George’s father, Billy Wagner, lied to them during his first interview with them in September 2016.

"You need to investigate that. That’s important. That’s a lead. That’s something that needs to be ran down," Scheiderer told the jury in his second appearance on the witness stand.

BCI later got warrants for the family cell phones, uncovering what Scheiderer said were “interesting” text messages from George to his father Billy. One of those was sent to both of Billy's phones while Scheiderer was at the Wagner home that day.

"Don't come down 'til I text you. Got company," Scheiderer said, reading the contents of the message.

Scheiderer also said Jake's phone included a list of guns the family owned at one point, including models or calibers thought to have been involved in the killings.
 
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https://twitter.com/evanmillward

PIKE COUNTY TRIAL: #GeorgeWagnerIV and all attorneys are back in the courtroom. The judge will have to read all 150+ pages of jury instructions once the jury is brought back in. This WILL take a while.

WATCH LIVE: Judge Deering is reading through the jury instructions - including definitions they need for each charge and other more specific considerations.
 
silenced said:
George didn't. He did not think his family was guilty, he was not guilty, figured there was no chance LE could prove something they did not do. From George's perspective, that is.
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No, GW sure didn't. He let it fly! Like AW, I don't think he does believe that he is guilty and has told his attorneys that he is not guilty. Thus they have to defend him as such. Just with that little last bit that the defense put in; If you believe JW, remember, GW was not there to kill anyone (loosely quoting). I think his attorneys have served him well; 1) They did their jobs to ensure his rights were protected and he was properly and zealously defended, and 2) I believe they have tried to prevent a mistrial, he could present, based on poor representation. Do they have to belive him to be 100% innocent? No.
 
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