OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #87

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Oh what a trial this will be…..

IMO, the only chance Billy has is to discredit Jake’s testimony. That will likely define Billy’s ‘contributions’ and ‘active participation’ in his own defense. Will Billy take the stand to discredit Jake? What does Billy have to lose at this point? At worst he will be found guilty with LWOP. Ironic it was Jake that took the death penalty off the table for him.

Just like at George’s trial, the prosecution will need to establish proof of the criminal conspiracy and the participation of all four W’s in this conspiracy. I do not anticipate many surprises here – except in the potential testimony of AW. There is a section of Discovery titled “Other Acts”, referring to Billy and his extensive criminal past. I suspect AW is the one that can testify to that. It will be interesting to see how the prosecution uses her testimony.

I’m looking forward to seeing who the prosecution witnesses will be. I suspect anyone testifying for the prosecution is doing so as part of a plea deal.

If the defense has any witnesses, I’ll be surprised. But then again, I’ve been surprised before.

All completely, JMO, MOO and etc.
 
rsd1200 said:
I agree 100%. They will do their due diligence, as all defense attorneys should, but ultimately, he's the client. They don't even have to like him. I truly hope the next judge will choose to allow G3's trial to be covered a bit more leniently. Not to diss our former judge, I really liked him, and I just saw a clip of another case I'm following, where the press was restricted to doing artist sketches and note-taking. G4's trial was Judge Deering's last one, and I felt he was trying to leave no room for error for a successful appeal, on a case that he sat over.
Click to expand...

Right. There is some kind of Ohio law that allows witnesses to opt out of audio and video on the stand so I agree with you that Deering followed this law (or whatever it is) so that George has zero room for appeal.

I remember we were wondering in discussions how George would pay for his appeal attorney seeing as how he is listed in the court records as indigent. Like would Nash do it pro bono or would legal aid help or would the State/Court pay?

We now know he has a new appellate attorney and the State/Court is paying for it. We also know Deering did an airtight job keeping any grounds for appeals at bay.

HEADS UP

I would really like to read George's appeal Motion, be very interesting to see what grounds for appeal get listed. Would he ask for all the guilty verdicts to be thrown out? Ask for a new trial? If any of you good people find this Motion please post.

I realize it is too soon right now. There hasn't been enough time yet for George's new attorney to even officially file his appeal Motion but it is something to look out for in future.

Thanks everybody! I appreciate all your good information through the years and giving me a place to discuss this Case to get justice.
 
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Puzzles8 said:
Oh what a trial this will be…..

IMO, the only chance Billy has is to discredit Jake’s testimony. That will likely define Billy’s ‘contributions’ and ‘active participation’ in his own defense. Will Billy take the stand to discredit Jake? What does Billy have to lose at this point? At worst he will be found guilty with LWOP. Ironic it was Jake that took the death penalty off the table for him.

Just like at George’s trial, the prosecution will need to establish proof of the criminal conspiracy and the participation of all four W’s in this conspiracy. I do not anticipate many surprises here – except in the potential testimony of AW. There is a section of Discovery titled “Other Acts”, referring to Billy and his extensive criminal past. I suspect AW is the one that can testify to that. It will be interesting to see how the prosecution uses her testimony.

I’m looking forward to seeing who the prosecution witnesses will be. I suspect anyone testifying for the prosecution is doing so as part of a plea deal.

If the defense has any witnesses, I’ll be surprised. But then again, I’ve been surprised before.

All completely, JMO, MOO and etc.
Click to expand...

I agree. Billy's trial will be very interesting and what Angela says about him will be especially interesting.

Who knows him better than her? No one. She is a self proclaimed arsonist and insurance fraud criminal who carried a gun around in her purse and shop lifted amongst other crimes. She would know all about Billy's long criminal history and she aided and abetted him and spent his criminal money.

She testified making him sound like the mastermind. His idea, his idea to kill the entire family not just Hanna, she was following his instructions on what murder items to buy.

Billy's attorneys will need to discredit her testimony as well as Jake's. I think she could devastate him on the stand. Add Jake's testimony and Billy is done.

Yes the prosecution has to prove Billy's involvement in the conspiracy and establish that he also was part of the tight Wagner clan and would not be left out of anything important, especially murders. I suspect the defense will rely on the fact that Billy lived apart from them - to distance Billy from them - but it won't work.

He should have left his phone at FWF, instead there is proof his phone was at Peterson Rd that night and that his first and last call on April 22nd was from Peterson Rd.

He should have driven the murder truck deep into some woods and torched it or drove it into a deep ocean, not give it to his niece the morning that he commits multiple murders.

His defense is what will be interesting because what on earth could it be? How do you even begin to defend a criminal client like him? His attorneys must be in shock they have to go through a long trial with this type of client, having to politely listen to all his critiques.

Judge Deering doesn't want it, he won't be the visiting judge.
 
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rsd1200 said:
BIBM
I am not sure if JW is misremembering, or retelling the story his way, but still testifying to the prosecution's satisfaction. I personally feel it is the latter.

My dad shot FR after he died while I looked for casings and cell phones;




JW's retelling of the murder of HMR, DR, and CR2. No matter his retelling, and his storyline, he takes full responsibility for these three murders, each time. Someone covered her face, and someone covered CR1 and GR maybe with him (BJM even says something about pulling back a cover iirc). Maybe it was JW, maybe it wasn't, but he does admit to murder.

JW admits to murdering them all, initially. It's just not possible. Especially given the facts at CR1's trailer.

Two, possibly three, of the victims may have been fully asleep. I don't feel the others were. JM2, my own personal theory.

KR was murdered by the same caliber gun as CR1 and GR. G3's firearm.


All the W4 are as full of $4*t as a Christmas turkey but JW's full testimony, when stripped of embellishments or misremembering, and the facts presented by those who investigated the case, do line up.


www.wcpo.com

Pike County murder trial: Testimony moves to scene where Hannah Hazel Gilley, Frankie Rhoden found dead

Testimony in the trial of a man accused of murdering eight people in Pike County continued Wednesday, with the agent who lead the investigation at one of four different crime scenes discovered.
www.wcpo.com www.wcpo.com
Click to expand...

Quote from your post:
"Someone covered her face, (Dana with pillow over face) and someone covered CR1 and GR maybe with him (BJM even says something about pulling back a cover iirc). Maybe it was JW, maybe it wasn't, but he does admit to murder."

Jake testified that he went back in the bedroom and removed keys from Chris's pocket to be able to go to the
outside building to get the security camera hard drive. He then said that he covered Chris and Gary with a blanket but says he doesn't know why he did. If true that he covered Chris and Gary, then I believe he covered Dana's face too.

Betty P said:
We're all hoping they'll appoint Judge Deering as the visiting judge. I think they do allow retired judges to serve in that capacity. Maybe not. Remember, DeWine's son is a justice on the Ohio Supreme Ct.
Click to expand...

Not sure if you know, but Deering will not be the visiting judge for Billy's trial according to this:


Angenette Levy

Jan 18
So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig
 
Cool Cats said:
Quote from your post:
"Someone covered her face, (Dana with pillow over face) and someone covered CR1 and GR maybe with him (BJM even says something about pulling back a cover iirc). Maybe it was JW, maybe it wasn't, but he does admit to murder."

Jake testified that he went back in the bedroom and removed keys from Chris's pocket to be able to go to the
outside building to get the security camera hard drive. He then said that he covered Chris and Gary with a blanket but says he doesn't know why he did. If true that he covered Chris and Gary, then I believe he covered Dana's face too.



Not sure if you know, but Deering will not be the visiting judge for Billy's trial according to this:


Angenette Levy

Jan 18
So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig
Click to expand...
WOW, imagine that. o_O
 
Puzzles8 said:
Oh what a trial this will be…..

IMO, the only chance Billy has is to discredit Jake’s testimony. That will likely define Billy’s ‘contributions’ and ‘active participation’ in his own defense. Will Billy take the stand to discredit Jake? What does Billy have to lose at this point? At worst he will be found guilty with LWOP. Ironic it was Jake that took the death penalty off the table for him.

Just like at George’s trial, the prosecution will need to establish proof of the criminal conspiracy and the participation of all four W’s in this conspiracy. I do not anticipate many surprises here – except in the potential testimony of AW. There is a section of Discovery titled “Other Acts”, referring to Billy and his extensive criminal past. I suspect AW is the one that can testify to that. It will be interesting to see how the prosecution uses her testimony.

I’m looking forward to seeing who the prosecution witnesses will be. I suspect anyone testifying for the prosecution is doing so as part of a plea deal.

If the defense has any witnesses, I’ll be surprised. But then again, I’ve been surprised before.

All completely, JMO, MOO and etc.
Click to expand...
BIUBM: Agree. I hate that the families have to go through another one, but, this should be the last trial. G4's appeal is standard. I'd have been shocked if he didn't file one. I, of course, am not a lawyer/judge/etc..., but I can't see him begin successful.
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G3's legal team will be sure to point out any benefits, that anyone receives, in exchange for a plea to testify against him. AW and JW. AW most significantly. AW received the most minimal sentence if she testified against her spouse (and G4). JW had enough memory issues (?), and embellishments (?), that he'll be brought into question, of course. However, why toss Dad into the mix, if he wasn't there at all? He could have rolled over on his mommy dearest, and big bro, and still received the same benefit if, in fact, dear ole dad was not there. A brain injury is not sufficient to cause him to misremember that his father drove him to the murder sites, and was at the locations with him and his brother. That's beyond all scope of reason (coming from someone who lives with a severe TBI...).

I am in hopes that G3 takes the stand. Just based on his court appearances thus far, and the recording of him and the agent, in the car, I am very hopeful that he will testify, as G4 did, and not hide behind the "opt-out" option if it is given.
 
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Cool Cats said:
I agree. Billy's trial will be very interesting and what Angela says about him will be especially interesting.

Who knows him better than her? No one. She is a self proclaimed arsonist and insurance fraud criminal who carried a gun around in her purse and shop lifted amongst other crimes. She would know all about Billy's long criminal history and she aided and abetted him and spent his criminal money.

She testified making him sound like the mastermind. His idea, his idea to kill the entire family not just Hanna, she was following his instructions on what murder items to buy.

Billy's attorneys will need to discredit her testimony as well as Jake's. I think she could devastate him on the stand. Add Jake's testimony and Billy is done.

Yes the prosecution has to prove Billy's involvement in the conspiracy and establish that he also was part of the tight Wagner clan and would not be left out of anything important, especially murders. I suspect the defense will rely on the fact that Billy lived apart from them - to distance Billy from them - but it won't work.

He should have left his phone at FWF, instead there is proof his phone was at Peterson Rd that night and that his first and last call on April 22nd was from Peterson Rd.

He should have driven the murder truck deep into some woods and torched it or drove it into a deep ocean, not give it to his niece the morning that he commits multiple murders.

His defense is what will be interesting because what on earth could it be? How do you even begin to defend a criminal client like him? His attorneys must be in shock they have to go through a long trial with this type of client, having to politely listen to all his critiques.

Judge Deering doesn't want it, he won't be the visiting judge.
Click to expand...
BIUBM; I was just thinking, after reading your post, maybe we'll truly see why AW was given 30 years on a plea, during G3's trial. Maybe it's her willingness to testify against her spouse, in full, no holds barred? More to do with nailing G3, than G4.

Opting out;
  • Per the Ohio State Supreme Court's rules of superintendence for the courts of Ohio, section 12, all victims and witnesses participating in a trial have a right to object to being filmed, videotaped, recorded or photographed. "The filming, videotaping, recording, or taking of photographs of victims or witnesses who object shall not be permitted," reads the Ohio State Supreme Court's rules. The court's rules leave the determination on how to handle that right up to each individual judge presiding over trials throughout the state of Ohio.
    www.wcpo.com

    Here's why you won't see every witness testify during the Pike County murder trial

    Those who have been following the Pike County murder trial of George Wagner IV have probably noticed some witness testimony has not been able to air over live streams or on televised recaps later.
    www.wcpo.com www.wcpo.com
I'm hopeful the new judge may see their way to not using the opt-out rule.
 
Cool Cats said:
Nice post, don't apologize, all kinds of interesting points you make.

I think you are on to something about Billy's motives. Something is fishy about his motives.

Angela was quoted as saying "why so many?" when they got home and told her 8 were killed. According to Jake, Billy had excuses as to why he wanted multiple people killed, not just Hanna. His excuses were that the Rhodens would know it was them then come to kill them and anyone left alive is a witness.

No, I think he was afraid the Rhodens would tell LE about the custody battle and reveal their negative behavior towards Hanna in detail including any incriminating Facebook messages and texts -
they stole what Rhoden phones they could. Not realistic the Rhodens would risk getting arrested for murder when LE would be doing an intensive investigation.

And a sleeping person can't be a witness. Killers target individuals or an individual couple and leave the others alone, rarely killing the entire family. Not necessary, others sleeping in the house don't see the killers. Usually when an entire family is killed it is by an individual in that family not by an outsider.

But more than that, maybe Billy had ulterior motives to get rid of Chris Sr. and Kenny and some of the others, as you point out, for some gain to himself.

Maybe Billy manipulated his family into killing the entire family.....

because he benefited from it personally. Also, as you mentioned, he could have had anger towards them, been revenge minded towards them and not about custody.

He was awfully quick to justify killing an entire family, very quick to jump to that without discussion like it was no big deal. Something is "off" about this. Ulterior motives and planned out in his mind. Scary actually.
Click to expand...
I've always thought killing KR was an indicator that Billy had his own agenda that involved KR's grow room. And maybe cash. Do I think this family was willing to kill for financial gain? Arson is just a step away from that.
 
How long do the phone companies keep a record of text messages? If I delete from my phone, does the phone company still retain a copy? Just wondering. Same questions regarding vmail.
 
Are the Wagners still married?

www.foxnews.com

Pike County massacre: Angela Wagner says 8 murders were husband's idea

Angela Wagner, matriarch of the family accused of killing eight victims in the 2016 Pike County, Ohio, massacre, testified Tuesday that the murders were her husband's idea.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

11/2/22

Angela Wagner, accused of conspiring to kill eight family members in what has become known as the 2016 Pike County, Ohio, massacre case, said in testimony that the murders were her husband's idea.

Wagner made the claim Tuesday while testifying against her son George Wagner IV. And prosecutors allowed her to do so without being recorded by the media in Ohio's most expensive murder trial ever.

She, husband George "Billy" Wagner and sons Edward "Jake" Wagner and George Wagner IV, allegedly shot and killed eight people six years ago, including five members of the Rhoden family and three members of the Gilley family, over a custody dispute.
 
Prisoners condemned to die in prison are not given any special treatment and, in fact, have less access to programs than other prisoners. They are housed in high security facilities with few privileges, far away from any relatives, and in crowded group cells. Ironically, people on death row are provided much more comfortable single cells and sometimes gain celebrity and attention just by being there.


Awww, poor crime laden murderer's hopefully reap what they sow while they are amongst others just like them! I hope each of them gets a big taste of the fear they gave their victims that night. COWARDS!!!

All MOO.
 

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Cool Cats said:
Quote from your post:
"Someone covered her face, (Dana with pillow over face) and someone covered CR1 and GR maybe with him (BJM even says something about pulling back a cover iirc). Maybe it was JW, maybe it wasn't, but he does admit to murder."

Jake testified that he went back in the bedroom and removed keys from Chris's pocket to be able to go to the
outside building to get the security camera hard drive. He then said that he covered Chris and Gary with a blanket but says he doesn't know why he did. If true that he covered Chris and Gary, then I believe he covered Dana's face too.



Not sure if you know, but Deering will not be the visiting judge for Billy's trial according to this:


Angenette Levy

Jan 18
So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if I had already posted the information, but according to the Ohio Supreme Court guidelines, the chief justice can appoint retired judges to handle cases in which the acting judge must recuse himself.



JMO, so we don't know for certain, unless there's been some recent news, whether Judge Deering has been or will be asked to preside over Billy's trial. At Billy's hearing last week, he stated clearly that he is retiring because its the law in Ohio.

Judge Deering retires, eff. Feb 8. due to Ohio's mandatory requirement for judges.
 
Betty P said:
I'm not sure if I had already posted the information, but according to the Ohio Supreme Court guidelines, the chief justice can appoint retired judges to handle cases in which the acting judge must recuse himself.



JMO, so we don't know for certain, unless there's been some recent news, whether Judge Deering has been or will be asked to preside over Billy's trial. At Billy's hearing last week, he stated clearly that he is retiring because its the law in Ohio.

Judge Deering retires, eff. Feb 8. due to Ohio's mandatory requirement for judges.
Click to expand...

Right. As I look into it further I do not see where Angenette Levy (journalist who has written articles about this Case) got her information, other than from Billy's recent Hearing. It is possible that she is just assuming that Deering won't be the visiting judge for Billy's trial because he is retiring.

It definitely is normal for retired judges to come out of retirement and fill in for judges who recuse themselves, such as what happened with Reader. Deering recused himself for Reader's Case and a retired visiting judge took his place. That judge does this alot.
 
Cool Cats said:
Quote from your post:
"Someone covered her face, (Dana with pillow over face) and someone covered CR1 and GR maybe with him (BJM even says something about pulling back a cover iirc). Maybe it was JW, maybe it wasn't, but he does admit to murder."

Jake testified that he went back in the bedroom and removed keys from Chris's pocket to be able to go to the
outside building to get the security camera hard drive. He then said that he covered Chris and Gary with a blanket but says he doesn't know why he did. If true that he covered Chris and Gary, then I believe he covered Dana's face too.



Not sure if you know, but Deering will not be the visiting judge for Billy's trial according to this:


Angenette Levy

Jan 18
So, question answered in #BillyWagner's case in Pike County, Ohio today. Judge Randy Deering, who is retiring, will not preside as a visiting judge in BW's trial. Current Prosecutor Rob Junk (and judge-elect) has a conflict. Andy Wilson has a new gig
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if I had already posted the information, but according to the Ohio Supreme Court guidelines, the chief justice can appoint retired judges to handle cases in which the acting judge must recuse himself.



JMO, so we don't know for certain, unless there's been some recent news to the contrary, whether Judge Deering has been or will be asked to preside over Billy's trial. At Billy's hearing last week, he stated clearly that he is retiring because its the law in Ohio.

Judge Deering retires, eff. Feb 8. due to Ohio's mandatory requirement for judges.
Cool Cats said:
Right. As I look into it further I do not see where Angenette Levy (journalist who has written articles about this Case) got her information, other than from Billy's recent Hearing. It is possible that she is just assuming that Deering won't be the visiting judge for Billy's trial because he is retiring.

It definitely is normal for retired judges to come out of retirement and fill in for judges who recuse themselves, such as what happened with Reader. Deering recused himself for Reader's Case and a retired visiting judge took his place. That judge does this alot.
Click to expand...

Yes, I think its an open question at this point. We'll see what happens.
 
Fat Old Man said:
With Judge Deering retiring. Who will sentence RN, AW & JW
Click to expand...

It will be an appointed visiting judge. It could be the same visiting judge who presides over Billy's trial or they will bring in a different visiting judge or judges to do it.

Reader had 2 different visiting judges for his Case. Retired visiting judge Christ Martin took over the case from the beginning when Reader was arraigned and pleaded not guilty, and Martin stayed with Reader's Case until Reader was sentenced.

A different judge sentenced Reader, Judge Patricia Cosgrove.

I believe Billy's judge will sentence Billy but also be asked if he will do the sentencing for RN, AW & JW.

My guess is that if Billy's judge has the time and is available, that he would do the sentencing for these other 3 but it seems to depend on the visiting judge's availability.
 
Update in the court site for GW3 - nothing really new...

Docket Information
Date Docket Text
01/24/2023 ENTRY CHANGING RATE OF COMPENSATION FOR SPECIAL PROSECUTOR, ANGELA CANEPA
FILED AND MAILED COPIES TO COUNSEL

01/25/2023 JOURNAL ENTRY -- THIS CAUSE CAME ON FOR PRE-TRIAL HEARING ON JANUARY 18, 2023; COUNSEL FOR THE DEFENDANT ANNOUNCED TO THE COURT THAT IT WAS THE INTENTION OF THE DEFFENSE TO FILE A SUPPLEMENTARY MOTION FOR CHANGE OF VENUE; IN VIEW OF THE FACT THAT THE JUDGE CURRENTLY PRESIDING OVER THIS ACTIONIS RETIRING, WITH HIS LAST DAY IN OFFICE BEING FEBRUARY 8, 2023 AND THAT THE JUDGE-ELECT WILL SUCCEED THE CURRENT JUDGE IN OFFICE IS THE COUNTY PROSECUTING ATTORNEY WHO HAS PROSECUTED THIS ACTION, IT WAS AGREED BY THE PARTIES THAT FURTHER HEARINGS IN THIS ACTION, AS WELL AS THE TRIAL IN THIS ACTION, SHOULD BE SCHEDULED BEFORE A VISITING JUDGE TO BE APPOINTED BY THE OHIO SUPREME COURT


link: https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/e...IEvFE6Vyi-qcLKXBDPIiEPdxiJ0i2gdF5Kuw82Zdekzuw
 
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