GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #66

[sunshineray]

With a casing on the porch, bullet under the house, and others in the living room, it doesn't seem that they took any time to torture him with a knife.

BJM did think he looked beaten but that would be with fists not a knife. She didn't say he was cut up or anything like that.

Shooting him and beating him was enough to try to get him to give out a combination if that is what they wanted.

But then @Johnny B Bad did say that there was no reason to put the knife in cement if it wasn't used to cut someone.

I just can't see the reason for the Wagners to shoot 33 times, counting bullet under house, and maybe beat Chris, but then on top of that start cutting someone.

It isn't fitting the Wagner's MO for that night.

Hummm....

I think the knife was maybe used for cutting utility lines. Since the Rhodens lived in a very rural area, the only way to probably get online or make calls was wifi when they were at home. Any alarm systems they may have had somewhere could be been disabled too?

 

[Cool Cats]

I think the knife was maybe used for cutting utility lines. Since the Rhodens lived in a very rural area, the only way to probably get online or make calls was wifi when they were at home. Any alarm systems they may have had somewhere could be been disabled too?

They used phone jammers for the Rhoden's cell phones and took down security cameras and trail cameras along with stealing 6 phones and a listening device. There were security flood lights and Chris had an "invisible fence".

The dogs were also part of the security and they were able to get past the dogs.

There are so many uses for a knife as a tool that I lean towards it being used as a tool rather than weapon.

They would have electrocuted themselves if they had tried to cut utility lines. Too bad they didn't do it.



Electrocuted People Cartoon Illustrations, Royalty-Free Vector Graphics & Clip Art - iStock

 

[Piffcat]

You have to understand that when something like this happens family survivors need to be painted in a positive light. Both for emotional reasons and justice. Without getting into toc specifics imo this was the case with several naratives- cr and Dr's reconciliation, Gary's activities and living situation. I'm not saying they are outright fabrications, more like embellishment. Dewine himself called crsr trailer a shell. I'm sure Gary stayed their plenty but it was not his permanent residence. On this most recent stay i believe he arrived that week. The wagners surveillance was technology and physical eyes on type. Someone without a phone or vehicle would be able to slip under the radar so to speak... <modsnip - discussing someone not named a POI>

Little confused on the edit

With a casing on the porch, bullet under the house, and others in the living room, it doesn't seem that they took any time to torture him with a knife.

BJM did think he looked beaten but that would be with fists not a knife. She didn't say he was cut up or anything like that.

Shooting him and beating him was enough to try to get him to give out a combination if that is what they wanted.

But then @Johnny B Bad did say that there was no reason to put the knife in cement if it wasn't used to cut someone.

I just can't see the reason for the Wagners to shoot 33 times, counting bullet under house, and maybe beat Chris, but then on top of that start cutting someone.

It isn't fitting the Wagner's MO for that night.

Hummm....

This wasn't just about ending crsr life imo. The Wagner Crime Family wanted jim to pay. Sounds like crsr was a really good dad. He protected his daughter by any means neccesary. This must have enraged b3 and aw. How care someone tell them no? The discovery stalking sheet fights and guns Billy's past acts portays, he was out fo revenge. Crsr seems fearless to even imagine what happened I that trailer is the stuff of nightmares

 

[Piffcat]

I am interested in knowing how they intended on busting whoever in the family out of jail if all were not arrested.

G4 probly was confident he wouldn't be indicted. Seems since day 1 he's been, positive therevwas no dna on him. This supports a theory of him as a containment/sniper roll outside. He was competitive shooter and bought that nightscope. The rifle type in this case major useis skill shooting as opposed to Millitary. Older Russian design that predates ak47. I wonder if prosecution has tournament data for g4s shooting to see type of rifle used. Instead of a ar15 this weapon also used for hunting remember it was first day of turkey season

 

[Piffcat]

Why would the surviving family members need to "be painted in a positive light"? IMO there wasn't any embellishment, (nor did there need to be) concerning Dana and Chris and their *working on* getting back together.

As for Gary, I have seen a lot of shade being thrown at him, but since he is no longer here to defend himself, as far as I'm concerned...it's gossip with no facts to back it up. All JMO

I am saying that the public and media portraying a murder victim in a poor )ight can be damaging to solving the case. Look at how badly the families were treated over pot. Jumped right on a cartel imaginary reason. For these reasons and more family members of defaced can hold back certain elements of victims life. Especially with defense attorneys tricks today any little fact can squeeze reasonable fought. My post was about the wagners being surprised by Gary. If that is true, I'm putting forward explanations. These could include gary recently arriving, a blindside in wags security methods or their stalking relied on smartphone and Gary didn't have one. Same possibilities if he he did _ did not. Further if his substance struggle wasn't going as smoothly as portrayed the family might hold that back out of love Bottom line is it's natural to want to protect a loved one's legacy. Can't supposition as facts

 

[Cool Cats]

G4 probly was confident he wouldn't be indicted. Seems since day 1 he's been, positive therevwas no dna on him. This supports a theory of him as a containment/sniper roll outside. He was competitive shooter and bought that nightscope. The rifle type in this case major useis skill shooting as opposed to Millitary. Older Russian design that predates ak47. I wonder if prosecution has tournament data for g4s shooting to see type of rifle used. Instead of a ar15 this weapon also used for hunting remember it was first day of turkey season

George a competitive tournament shooter? I doubt it.
He was and is a coward and putting a big gun in his hands doesn't give him some type of major use skill.

He was known as a big on-line gamer and bought his night scope to shoot raccoons.
He also shot deer. He was a hunter, had dozens of deer heads mounted all over his house.

His SM shows shooting games and hunting shows and a hunting club, nothing competitive.

Yes, as you had mentioned, he likely thought he would not be arrested. He likely thought his mom wouldn't be arrested, they were probably the ones who would break everyone out of jail. Delusional thinking after the laser focus.

This thinking came after the laser focus and other BCI pressure when Jake was married and his wife was a witness to the conversation. Late spring of 2017 when they were back at FWF. Walls closing in.

Was always a surprise to me to find out the confidential reliable source was a woman not a wire tap listening device. I believe the woman is EW. Hope she is divorced now. I am surprised the Wagners talked in front of her, but then again I am surprised they left footprints, casings, and all those on-line digital footprints from their murder kit shopping.

Oh yah, and buying shoes in the most heavily surveillanced store and keeping the receipt.

...2 Cents ...

 

[Puzzles8]

I think the knife was maybe used for cutting utility lines. Since the Rhodens lived in a very rural area, the only way to probably get online or make calls was wifi when they were at home. Any alarm systems they may have had somewhere could be been disabled too?

The puzzling part, there was DNA on the knife. The DNA must be relevant to the criminal cases. I don't think it would be in Discovery if it only had the W4's DNA.

I do think it's relevant if it had any of the victim's DNA on it.

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

The puzzling part, there was DNA on the knife. The DNA must be relevant to the criminal cases. I don't think it would be in Discovery if it only had the W4's DNA.

I do think it's relevant if it had any of the victim's DNA on it.

JMO

The DNA could have come from the latent fingerprints on the knife as opposed to blood on the knife from cutting someone. This is what I think, I do not think it was the Wagner's MO that night to use knives as weapons.

Fingerprints hold a lot more information than you might realise. They don’t just provide a pattern with which to identify people. They can also contain DNA.

Latent prints are left in bodily oils, and may require treatment to be visualised.

• We've discovered a way to recover DNA from fingerprints without destroying them
• Latent Prints – The Forensics Library

It helps the Case even if it is just the Wagner's prints and DNA.

The knife cut XYZ and has George's prints and DNA.
George cut XYZ.
George was at the crime scenes that night.

Forensic testing would determine what the knife was cutting. Inanimate object (used as tool) vs. person (used as weapon). The testing would easily match to whatever the Wagners were cutting.

Ditto ... Billy.

 

[altojack]

Hi. Haven't heard from you in quite awhile Col. Nice to hear from you. important court date for George in December.

I thought Jake said they used 2 vehicles, one bought for that night. I can't find anything on it right now. I know Jake specifically said 3 guns. The excursion was not necessarily used.

Interesting, they saw the excursion pull up to the Walmart and Angie get into the passenger side that same day she bought the 2 pairs of murder shoes. They said she was the owner of the excursion.

Probably repairing the leather to fix it up to sell it.

~ Scheiderer Bond Hearing ~

I can remember reading on here about the Excursion. LE went to the new owner and cut pieces of carpet, pieces from the seat covers and something else because there was blood stains on them.

Can't find the link now sorry.

 

[altojack]

I am interested in knowing how they intended on busting whoever in the family out of jail if all were not arrested.

Me too. I've never been able to figure that out. But, if G4 gets off with this, which Idont think he will, he could in theory set out for revenge. JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

I can remember reading on here about the Excursion. LE went to the new owner and cut pieces of carpet, pieces from the seat covers and something else because there was blood stains on them.

Can't find the link now sorry.

I saw that invoice posted several times on SM listing many places from inside the vehicle they tested for blood, such as the floor mats. It was posted by the person who bought the Excursion.

It came from the buyer's Facebook account and can't be posted here. The person claimed to have purchased the Excursion from Angela and was surprised to find agents showing up wanting to do testing. How weird that would be.

I think this was in Kentucky.

 

[altojack]

I saw that invoice posted several times on SM listing many places from inside the vehicle they tested for blood, such as the floor mats. It was posted by the person who bought the Excursion.

It came from the buyer's Facebook account and can't be posted here. The person claimed to have purchased the Excursion from Angela and was surprised to find agents showing up wanting to do testing. How weird that would be.

I think this was in Kentucky.

I didn't think it was on Facebook, you mean the new owners Facebook? I cant say I would have seen it there, so it must have been somewhere else. The Excusion isn't in Discovery is it?

If I'm up to it tomorrow I'll empty out 2 boxes I have of scribbled notes see if I did infact make notes on it. It could take time because they're mostly loose pieces of paper. Not like now, I have tried to use a A4 note pad haha.

By the way, no iron for me tomorrow as Thursday is covid booster day. Can you imagine, sorry TMI.

 

[Cool Cats]

I didn't think it was on Facebook, you mean the new owners Facebook? I cant say I would have seen it there, so it must have been somewhere else. The Excusion isn't in Discovery is it?

If I'm up to it tomorrow I'll empty out 2 boxes I have of scribbled notes see if I did infact make notes on it. It could take time because they're mostly loose pieces of paper. Not like now, I have tried to use a A4 note pad haha.

By the way, no iron for me tomorrow as Thursday is covid booster day. Can you imagine, sorry TMI.

The new owner posted the invoice, widely shared on SM, on their Facebook. It listed the areas in the Ford Excursion that were tested for blood. I saw the Facebook post, no way to prove it was real.

Stuff like RT front interior carpet, LT seat upholstery, stuff like that.

Yes, the Excursion is in Discovery:

(Jake) State's Supplemental Discovery - January 17, 2019

Ford Excursion Search (5/18/17):

Photos from search (93)
IR (5 pp)
Consents to search (4 pp)
Inventory (1 p)

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/jake-wagner-1-17-19-pdf.214703/

 

[Cool Cats]

May 12, 2017---SEARCHES (Peterson, FWF, car lot)

May 13, 2017---Angela audio interview
May 16, 2017---Angela audio interview
May 17, 2017--- Jake audio interview

May 18, 2017---Ford Excursion Search

May 21, 2017---Angela, Gw3, and GW4 all give audio interviews. Angela also gives a partial video interview.

 

[ColMustard]

G4 probly was confident he wouldn't be indicted. Seems since day 1 he's been, positive therevwas no dna on him. This supports a theory of him as a containment/sniper roll outside. He was competitive shooter and bought that nightscope. The rifle type in this case major useis skill shooting as opposed to Millitary. Older Russian design that predates ak47. I wonder if prosecution has tournament data for g4s shooting to see type of rifle used. Instead of a ar15 this weapon also used for hunting remember it was first day of turkey season

A normal hunter wouldn't use any of those rifles for turkey, and it would be illegal in Ohio, not that it would be much of a deterrent in his case.

You couldn't legally use those rifles for deer in Ohio, only recently (2014) Ohio has allowed rifles with a straight walled cartridge, which none of those mentioned are.

Previously shotguns (with slugs) were the only firearm legal for deer in Ohio. Shotguns with turkey loads are the preferred gun for turkey.

 

[Gracie55]

Unplu

They used phone jammers for the Rhoden's cell phones and took down security cameras and trail cameras along with stealing 6 phones and a listening device. There were security flood lights and Chris had an "invisible fence".

The dogs were also part of the security and they were able to get past the dogs.

There are so many uses for a knife as a tool that I lean towards it being used as a tool rather than weapon.

They would have electrocuted themselves if they had tried to cut utility lines. Too bad they didn't do it.

View attachment 321088

Electrocuted People Cartoon Illustrations, Royalty-Free Vector Graphics & Clip Art - iStock

Unplugging the WiFi would have disabled a lot. I do it if somebody has been gobbling up my satellite data bytes. They go fast. Phone gets weird when data is low. Miss calls. Nest won’t do right. Unplugging it nothing works.

 

[sunshineray]

The puzzling part, there was DNA on the knife. The DNA must be relevant to the criminal cases. I don't think it would be in Discovery if it only had the W4's DNA.

I do think it's relevant if it had any of the victim's DNA on it.

JMO

It's been a long while since I've looked at the autopsies but I do remember, IIRC, thinking the women's reports listed certain areas as normal whereas the corresponding male areas were blacked out. Your comments about the DNA brings those things to mind and it sure brings forth a certain speculation that's extremely disturbing.

 

[sunshineray]

The DNA could have come from the latent fingerprints on the knife as opposed to blood on the knife from cutting someone. This is what I think, I do not think it was the Wagner's MO that night to use knives as weapons.

Fingerprints hold a lot more information than you might realise. They don’t just provide a pattern with which to identify people. They can also contain DNA.

Latent prints are left in bodily oils, and may require treatment to be visualised.

• We've discovered a way to recover DNA from fingerprints without destroying them
• Latent Prints – The Forensics Library

It helps the Case even if it is just the Wagner's prints and DNA.

The knife cut XYZ and has George's prints and DNA.
George cut XYZ.
George was at the crime scenes that night.

Forensic testing would determine what the knife was cutting. Inanimate object (used as tool) vs. person (used as weapon). The testing would easily match to whatever the Wagners were cutting.

Ditto ... Billy.

There was defin some rage center stage that night. I don't believe CRSR being shot nine times was all due to a closed door between him and his killers.

And poor HHG, what did she do to deserve 5 bullets except be the sister of HR's baby's daddy. There was more rage shown for her than HR, the one who wouldn't cooperate in the W's minds. AJMO

 

[Piffcat]

DeWine: Some interviewed in Rhoden case 'have not been candid'

Here is an article with dew>n÷ expressing the exact same concerns about not telling the whole truth. <modsnip>

 

[Covert Operative]

The puzzling part, there was DNA on the knife. The DNA must be relevant to the criminal cases. I don't think it would be in Discovery if it only had the W4's DNA.

I do think it's relevant if it had any of the victim's DNA on it.

JMO

It is also puzzling since there was no Lab reports for DNA or Prints on the guns at least yet or in that discovery. There would have been previous prints on the guns just from handling, if not from the night of the murders. Did they wipe the guns off that thoroughly, but not wipe off the knife good or at all. They did make mistakes.

Why bother keeping the knife or the guns when they could just have gotten rid of them all. Seems those items meant somethinng to them.

I assume JW said that G4 was at the scene in some capacity so they probably do not need anything that proves G4 was there. It is nice in a trial to have some independent DNA/forensic evidence but JW's confession will probably seal G4 fate as far as him being there and being complicit. Complicity in aggravated murder is considered the same legally as being the principal offender.