GUILTY OH - Pike Co, 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue, 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #68

[RAISINISBACK]

03/26/2021 MOTION NO. 68 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DEPOSE CRITICAL WITNESS PURSUANT TO CRIM. R. 15 FILED

At the hearing on October 25, 2021, the Defendant withdrew the following motions........."DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DEPOSE CRITICAL WITNESS PURSUANT TO CRIM. R. 15

"The anticipated testimony points strongly to the defenfant's (George) actual innocence and the guilt of another person or group of people. Counsel can provide details to the court under seal so as not to cause this witness any undue harassment before the deposition is conducted."

The descriptions in the Motion sound exactly like FW and mention that her husband also was a witness before he passed.

In her interview she said she thought it was ISIS. lol I was blown away by that. I was thinking why in the world would a terrorist group in the Middle East come to sparsely populated Pike county Ohio to kill an entire family? And why would she think they would? lol

Thank you CC. Hubby says I have a girl crush on you because you always have the facts and can back them up with documents and MSM statements or court testimony. lol

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

In her interview she said she thought it was ISIS. lol I was blown away by that. I was thinking why in the world would a terrorist group in the Middle East come to sparsely populated Pike county Ohio to kill an entire family? And why would she think they would? lol

Thank you CC. Hubby says I have a girl crush on you because you always have the facts and can back them up with documents and MSM statements or court testimony. lol

JMO

HA!

Here are some more facts for you on the suspects FW mentioned:

#1.) “When I first heard about [the murders] that morning, I thought it was ISIS, or terrorists. I thought it was a terrorist attack.”

#2.) “I thought they killed Chris because he knew something. I thought that
they were going to kill Billy because he was such good friends with Chris Rhoden.”

#3.) "Wagner said she told the grand jury the names of the people she suspected killed the Rhodens. She wouldn’t elaborate but repeatedly and vehemently stressed the innocence of her family."

#4.) Leaving court after her charges were dismissed she moved her opinion yet again and said it might have been the Cartel who killed them.

#5.) The anticipated testimony (FW's) points strongly to the defenfant's (George's) actual innocence and the guilt of another person or group of people.

MOTION NO. 68 DEFENDANT'S MOTION TO DEPOSE CRITICAL WITNESS PURSUANT TO CRIM. R. 15 FILED

A matriarch's fight: Fredericka Wagner denies charges, allegations in Pike County mass murder

 

[Berrybell]

I do not think the W's were out and about at CRsr/scenes before later in the night. Maybe KR was out and about that late but it seems doubtful to me. Not late for CRsr but late for KR is my thinking.
I think there may be several reasons he was killed but seeing their vehicle is not one of those that I think is the case.

I wonder if the Wags busted in on DR's home or if she came home to them waiting for her and HR and CRjr already dead.

 

[Berrybell]

BBM
Not late for CRsr but late for KR is my thinking.

What is your reasoning that it was not too late for Chris to be out but too late for Kenny if I may ask? There is no way we can know Kenny's habits.

Maybe he liked to drive around late at night. He was photographed sitting on a motorcycle so I assume he owned one. Maybe he liked to take bike rides on mild nights. Lots of people do that. Nothing like a nice late night ride feeling the wind in your face for relaxing you before you go to bed.

JMO

I think it would have been late for KR because he had to work the next morning with a long drive. MOO

 

[Covert Operative]

I wonder if the Wags busted in on DR's home or if she came home to them waiting for her and HR and CRjr already dead.

Glad you mentioned that. I have had that same thought as you several times. After BCI confirming in bond hearing they were in bed when killed, I figured that they must have come in on them later or DR prob would not have been in bed. There are ways that could have played out though. I had also wondered before if HR and CRjr were already dead and then they got her when she walked in.

 

[IType]

I think it would have been late for KR because he had to work the next morning with a long drive. MOO

I recall a discussion in the past about this same thing, that there was a theory KR would not have been up late at night because he got up early to go to work at a good distance away from home. That discussion was quite some time ago, not even sure if it was before the W4 arrests or after. Posters were, again, discussing their theories if KR was killed first or last in the series of murders. JMO

But, I think I also recall some discussion that KR may have been planning to be off work on April 22nd--maybe had plans to do something with his cousin DS??? I could be totally wrong on this part though...maybe confusing KR and DS having plans with HR and KR's daughter having plans or something like that. Again, could be wrong. JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

I recall a discussion in the past about this same thing, that there was a theory KR would not have been up late at night because he got up early to go to work at a good distance away from home. That discussion was quite some time ago, not even sure if it was before the W4 arrests or after. Posters were, again, discussing their theories if KR was killed first or last in the series of murders. JMO

But, I think I also recall some discussion that KR may have been planning to be off work on April 22nd--maybe had plans to do something with his cousin DS??? I could be totally wrong on this part though...maybe confusing KR and DS having plans with HR and KR's daughter having plans or something like that. Again, could be wrong. JMO

I think you are correct on both.

 

[Piffcat]

BBM
also Big Chris had people dropping by a lot of the times during a day or evening

That fits in with Chris and Gary being the only two bodies to be moved to a back bedroom. An attempt to conceal those two bodies told LE they were the first two killed I think. The W's couldn't risk someone dropping by unannounced before they finished their killing spree and seeing bodies lying around. That would have put a major kink in their plan if Chris and Gary were discovered too early and LE called out. My opinion only. Why else make the attempt to conceal those two but none of the others? Because Chris had people dropping by all the time, bringing cars for him to work on, buying weed, and don't forget his teenage son who probably had friends in and out all the time. My son did anyway and I assume teenagers are all alike everywhere. I think George killed Gary when things got out of hand at Chris's and it took Billy and Jake both to kill Chris. No link, my opinion and thoughts only.

I don't buy that Kenny was the only one to know about the fight or custody battle given that Kendra was very close to Hanna and was with her earlier that day, fishing. Dana was close enough to her SIL April that she talked to her on SM that night after she got home from work to tell her she was home. Tony had talked to Chris on the phone about a faucet around 11 PM according to his interview with a reporter (Those kids are all we have left I think was the article). I think they were all a very close family who spoke or saw each other every day. Lenny was close enough to his ex SIL that he did work for Chris when he needed him to. And don't forget BJM who went to Chris's every day and even cleaned house for Kenny. No, that custody battle and fight between Chris and Billy was no secret in the M/R families or in the Gilly family given that Jake was claiming baby KR was his. You can bet your boots Hannah and Frankie told Charlie all about that.

That Kenny getting revenge thing doesn't even make sense given there were plenty more R's left alive to get revenge. Some sleeping not 500 feet away.

The only thing that makes sense is Kenny saw the vehicle the W's bought for the killing spree that night at or near one of the murder scenes, probably dropping Gary off. He probably didn't recognize who's vehicle it was but that didn't matter to the W's. No way they were going to let Kenny live to tell LE about any vehicle he saw that could be traced back to the W's.

JMO

well i certainly respect your opinion and its very possible that kenny saw a vehicle while dropping gary off although it doees require a couple assumptions. either way the wagners wanted to discredit the survivors and place negative morals to the victims. i was referring to the fight between billy and chris. custody battles are common and is not the first motive that pops into your head with a traedgy like this. kendra continued to socialize with jake after the murders so i have a hard time believing she knew the extent. arguing over a new boyfriend/ babies father is mild compared to the fight described between bw and crsr. also crsr and kr were operating a criminal conspiracy with the grows. in those situations people go out of their way to limit the amount of people who know fdetaails of the operation or safety and legal reasons. we know the wags plnned this very thoroughly even buying vehicles only used that might that had neve been associated with them. krs was way out of the way compared to the other scenes. making a change of plans that severe is unlikely in my opinion. they took pain staking measures to limit any visual evidence such as neighbor camera etc. they would need to determine the schedule and access fir each location. kr was on the kill list from day 1 but that doesnt mean he didnt spot a suspicious vehicle at crsr. im not sure if we know garys vehicle situation thaat night

 

[Piffcat]

Do you think there is any other reason that CRsr would have been more decomposed than the others, for it to be noted in the preliminary report.

the reasons are not pleasant to think about but if you consider the physical ramifications of being shot 9 times in different areas of the body acids and such from inside could start to break things down. then theres the crsr autopsy which took significantly longer and had many many things redacted. this decomposition was most likely in part due to the murderers physical assault of cr. billys rage remember bjm saw alot of blood as soon as she came inside

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think it would have been late for KR because he had to work the next morning with a long drive. MOO

BBM

If I remember correctly DS said he and Kenny were supposed to work on a car the next day in his interview in the timeline. (Once again thank you Betty for preserving all those interviews for us to refer back to as this case moves slowly along. If not for you many of those interviews would have been lost.) So if Kenny did not plan to work the following day per his cousin DS, there would have been no reason for him to go to bed early.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I recall a discussion in the past about this same thing, that there was a theory KR would not have been up late at night because he got up early to go to work at a good distance away from home. That discussion was quite some time ago, not even sure if it was before the W4 arrests or after. Posters were, again, discussing their theories if KR was killed first or last in the series of murders. JMO

But, I think I also recall some discussion that KR may have been planning to be off work on April 22nd--maybe had plans to do something with his cousin DS??? I could be totally wrong on this part though...maybe confusing KR and DS having plans with HR and KR's daughter having plans or something like that. Again, could be wrong. JMO

BBM

You are not wrong. <modnote DS> stated in his interview shortly after the murders that him and Kenny were going to work on a car the next day. He didn't say who's car but he did say that. <modsnip>Kendra did not know her dad did not plan on working the next day. That is why she stated she called him several times at work before sending someone (Luke I think) over to check on him. DS went with Luke. That is why it took them until the afternoon to find Kenny.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

well i certainly respect your opinion and its very possible that kenny saw a vehicle while dropping gary off although it doees require a couple assumptions. either way the wagners wanted to discredit the survivors and place negative morals to the victims. i was referring to the fight between billy and chris. custody battles are common and is not the first motive that pops into your head with a traedgy like this. kendra continued to socialize with jake after the murders so i have a hard time believing she knew the extent. arguing over a new boyfriend/ babies father is mild compared to the fight described between bw and crsr. also crsr and kr were operating a criminal conspiracy with the grows. in those situations people go out of their way to limit the amount of people who know fdetaails of the operation or safety and legal reasons. we know the wags plnned this very thoroughly even buying vehicles only used that might that had neve been associated with them. krs was way out of the way compared to the other scenes. making a change of plans that severe is unlikely in my opinion. they took pain staking measures to limit any visual evidence such as neighbor camera etc. they would need to determine the schedule and access fir each location. kr was on the kill list from day 1 but that doesnt mean he didnt spot a suspicious vehicle at crsr. im not sure if we know garys vehicle situation thaat night

BBM
And I absolutely respect your opinion. You bring up a lot of good points about the W's planning this out carefully and doing everything they could to escape detection. DeWine even said that in his statement. But as the old saying goes "The best laid plans of mice and men" (John Steinbeck quote I believe). Kenny may have came along and saw a vehicle that night at Chris's or Dana's and the W's saw him causing them to add him to their kill list that night. My opinion only.

There is no other feasible reason to go out of their way to kill Kenny and the fact that Kenny was only shot once and not subjected to the same mad dog overkill as the other victims supports this theory for me.

JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

well i certainly respect your opinion and its very possible that kenny saw a vehicle while dropping gary off although it doees require a couple assumptions. either way the wagners wanted to discredit the survivors and place negative morals to the victims. i was referring to the fight between billy and chris. custody battles are common and is not the first motive that pops into your head with a traedgy like this. kendra continued to socialize with jake after the murders so i have a hard time believing she knew the extent. arguing over a new boyfriend/ babies father is mild compared to the fight described between bw and crsr. also crsr and kr were operating a criminal conspiracy with the grows. in those situations people go out of their way to limit the amount of people who know fdetaails of the operation or safety and legal reasons. we know the wags plnned this very thoroughly even buying vehicles only used that might that had neve been associated with them. krs was way out of the way compared to the other scenes. making a change of plans that severe is unlikely in my opinion. they took pain staking measures to limit any visual evidence such as neighbor camera etc. they would need to determine the schedule and access fir each location. kr was on the kill list from day 1 but that doesnt mean he didnt spot a suspicious vehicle at crsr. im not sure if we know garys vehicle situation thaat night

I agree, there are quite a few reasons that can be theorized as to why KR was killed and why he was in that plan.

 

[Antimony]

Is it possible that Big Chris and Gary were moved out of sight because they thought Kenny might show up and they needed to bushwhack him? When he did not show up, They went to his place. How did Gary get to Big Chris trailer that night? Maybe Kenny dropped him off.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is it possible that Big Chris and Gary were moved out of sight because they thought Kenny might show up and they needed to bushwhack him? When he did not show up, They went to his place. How did Gary get to Big Chris trailer that night? Maybe Kenny dropped him off.

Bushwhack. I love that word. Images of the old west. lol

Anything is possible but I think Kenny saw the vehicle the W's were driving that night. If you will recall Chris had over 100 vehicles sitting around to work on and even Chris Jr's car was parked in the drive with a flat tire. I don't think Kenny would have thought anything about a strange vehicle in the drive. Several reasons for that. Chris Jr's car for one. Kenny may have thought it belonged to one of his friends. Chris working on cars daily is another. Chris selling a little weed is another. No reason to think anything about a random car sitting in his brothers driveway.

JMO

 

[Covert Operative]

Is it possible that Big Chris and Gary were moved out of sight because they thought Kenny might show up and they needed to bushwhack him? When he did not show up, They went to his place. How did Gary get to Big Chris trailer that night? Maybe Kenny dropped him off.

I think that is possible, I think that could be one of the reasons that he may have been killed first and was on the list to begin with, because he may show up at some point before they were able to finish the killing spree at all the homes, which would definitely mess up their plans.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think that is possible, I think that could be one of the reasons that he may have been killed first and was on the list to begin with, because he may show up at some point before they were able to finish the killing spree at all the homes, which would definitely mess up their plans.

BBM

Going along the same lines as your theory, when he didn't show up, why go out of their way to kill him?

I think it is because he did show up. I think he brought Gary home that night. They saw him and killed him on their way home so he couldn't tell LE about any cars he saw that night. His being shot only once supports this theory. His murder was not overkill as the other victims was showing the W's had nothing against him personally but couldn't risk him describing the vehicle they went out of their way to buy just for that night.

My opinion only.

 

[Covert Operative]

BBM

Going along the same lines as your theory, when he didn't show up, why go out of their way to kill him?

I think it is because he did show up. I think he brought Gary home that night. They saw him and killed him on their way home so he couldn't tell LE about any cars he saw that night. His being shot only once supports this theory. His murder was not overkill as the other victims was showing the W's had nothing against him personally but couldn't risk him describing the vehicle they went out of their way to buy just for that night.

My opinion only.

Him being shot only once supports a theory of mine also. <modsnip> There are several reasons in my mind as to why he was killed.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Rest In Peace Kenny.

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Stop the snark, personalizing and back and forth bickering in this discussion or Time Outs will be issued.