OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #72

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pittsburghgirl said:
I hadn't seen this testimony. Luke was an excellent witness. I'm also interested in the question he answered about "someone" beating up CR and Kenneth retaliating.
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It was interesting what Luke said to the reporter in the interview after testifying. That interview is a few pages back. He suspected because of something his dad told him.
............

Could have been a scuffle with Gary.
 
GoBuckeyes said:
I know that trailer walls tend to be thin, but doggone, what all did they use to shoot from outside in and leave his arm hanging on only at the elbow? These people are savages!! MOO I'm more gobsmacked than I was before on how they caused such carnage and went on like nothing had happened.
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An AR with the right ammunition could do that; recall at the Uvalde school shooting they needed DNA to identify bodies. AR does a lot of damage because of their velocity, possible fragmentation and "cavitation," the track along the path of the bullet. What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body
 
George's attorney questioning the ME now on how long the victims were dead. Questions she can't say because she wasn't at the crime scene, what they looked like, etc.

I think I saw in subpoena's the Pike County Coroner - who did the preliminary autopsies for many of the victims. He and the other coroner on scene that day will be able to answer those questions - how far decomp was on victims, etc. at the crime scenes.
 
sunshineray said:
Good God, 6 entrance wounds in CRSR's face...
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There's some rage right there. I think the prosecution was right that the issue that initiates these murders is custody. That said, I've been reading the Dave Cullen book about the Columbine shooting for a course I teach, and an FBI expert said that with two killers, there may also be more than one motive. I wonder what BW had against CR, apart from custody. The killing of KR has always bothered me for the same reason.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
There's some rage right there. I think the prosecution was right that the issue that initiates these murders is custody. That said, I've been reading the Dave Cullen book about the Columbine shooting for a course I teach, and an FBI expert said that with two killers, there may also be more than one motive. I wonder what BW had against CR, apart from custody. The killing of KR has always bothered me for the same reason.
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Yes, absolutely. Interesting about different motives for multiple killers. BW may have been angry at having been beaten by Chris a couple weeks before. Some others have speculated he was jealous of CR, probably jealous of KR, too. They had a decent business, were skilled at many things, took care of their own families and couldn't be intimidated by anyone.
 
IType said:
Not in JW proffer. It was stated in one of the motions filed by GW4 attorneys in support of dropping the murder charges against gw4 after JW confessed. It's the same item on the docket that states JW killed 5 but shot a sixth victim without killing them
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That shot under chin of CSR most likely done by the same person who did the same to Dana.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
There's some rage right there. I think the prosecution was right that the issue that initiates these murders is custody. That said, I've been reading the Dave Cullen book about the Columbine shooting for a course I teach, and an FBI expert said that with two killers, there may also be more than one motive. I wonder what BW had against CR, apart from custody. The killing of KR has always bothered me for the same reason.
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Because CRsr and KR were both twice the man that BW was. Were they perfect, no, but they were hard working men who loved and provided for their families and then some. They did not live off of their mother or steal or abuse or..... BW and his boys and AW were jealous from many years of failing to accomplish what the Rhodens did or had or were, IMO. Plus, CRsr beat the snot out of BW on at least one recent occasion and BW was probably embarrassed. This kind of crazy doesn't need a reason!
 
Betty P said:
Correct. Someone besides Jake killed Chris Sr, Gary and Kenny. We also have to consider the source (an admitted killer) and go with the evidence, too.

ETA: I also remember Gary Rhoden's dad saying they found two different types of ammunition at that crime scene.
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I just watched Luke Rhoden's testimony, which I think opens up a clear hypothesis. It's always bothered me why they went around and killed Kenneth. It's not like he would get custody of Hanna's older girl.

Remember 2 points in Luke's testimony:
1. Billy saying to Luke when they (CR, KR and Luke) came over to warm up the backhoe so BW could start it that CR and KR were good people but if he got into a beef/a fight with them "he'd half to kill them." I take that to mean that if you go after a Rhoden, you were in for the fight of your life. BW took these men seriously.
2. There was just a brief question about someone beating up/fighting with CR and Kenneth going after that person to retaliate.
The prosecution has to be going somewhere with these points.

If we assume that custody is the prime motivator, it would never be enough to kill just Hanna because it would point right to Jake and the Rhodens would go for custody. (Jake still had that little sex with an underage girl problem.) So killing the folks on Union HIll Road was necessary to cover the motive and to eliminate competition for custody. (although I still don't get why Frankie and Hannah Hazel had to die and you could imagine a sane person not killing CR or GR).

However. It's obvious from the above that BW knew Chris and Kenny would go after whoever killed Hanna, Dana and Chris Jr. So eliminating Chris was essential to the plan. But BW also knew that if Kenny figured out who did the killing, then KR would be coming for him. In essence, BW knew the Rhodens well enough that he feared retaliation so he wiped out those likely to retaliate. In my view, that's why KR had to be killed. BW feared him. I also think BW might have had other motives not necessarily evident to his sons, in terms of personal rivalry over the drugs or something else we haven't heard about yet. Not even my opinion--just thoughts from what I've heard and seen today.
 
rescuemom said:
Because CRsr and KR were both twice the man that BW was. Were they perfect, no, but they were hard working men who loved and provided for their families and then some. They did not live off of their mother or steal or abuse or..... BW and his boys and AW were jealous from many years of failing to accomplish what the Rhodens did or had or were, IMO. Plus, CRsr beat the snot out of BW on at least one recent occasion and BW was probably embarrassed. This kind of crazy doesn't need a reason!
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I have a lot of respect for the Rhodens. They were hardworking, generous and bonded, even after divorces (both KR and CR). They had a lot of talent for craftsmanship and mechanics.
 
Jmo Jake and Angela motive was custody, but Billy’s motive was a deal not fulfilled. Chris had 400,000 at one time. Kenny told Luke he was getting out of the business. Chris backed out of going out west. Billy referred to Chris as his best friend. Billy had to kill to make something right. They must have been over the supposed fight at least on Chris’s side to allow billy back on his property Jmo.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
I just watched Luke Rhoden's testimony, which I think opens up a clear hypothesis. It's always bothered me why they went around and killed Kenneth. It's not like he would get custody of Hanna's older girl.

Remember 2 points in Luke's testimony:
1. Billy saying to Luke when they (CR, KR and Luke) came over to warm up the backhoe so BW could start it that CR and KR were good people but if he got into a beef/a fight with them "he'd half to kill them." I take that to mean that if you go after a Rhoden, you were in for the fight of your life. BW took these men seriously.
2. There was just a brief question about someone beating up/fighting with CR and Kenneth going after that person to retaliate.
The prosecution has to be going somewhere with these points.

If we assume that custody is the prime motivator, it would never be enough to kill just Hanna because it would point right to Jake and the Rhodens would go for custody. (Jake still had that little sex with an underage girl problem.) So killing the folks on Union HIll Road was necessary to cover the motive and to eliminate competition for custody. (although I still don't get why Frankie and Hannah Hazel had to die and you could imagine a sane person not killing CR or GR).

However. It's obvious from the above that BW knew Chris and Kenny would go after whoever killed Hanna, Dana and Chris Jr. So eliminating Chris was essential to the plan. But BW also knew that if Kenny figured out who did the killing, then KR would be coming for him. In essence, BW knew the Rhodens well enough that he feared retaliation so he wiped out those likely to retaliate. In my view, that's why KR had to be killed. BW feared him. I also think BW might have had other motives not necessarily evident to his sons, in terms of personal rivalry over the drugs or something else we haven't heard about yet. Not even my opinion--just thoughts from what I've heard and seen today.
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I think the Wagners killed Kenny because he knew too much. He could provide damaging evidence to LE.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
I just watched Luke Rhoden's testimony, which I think opens up a clear hypothesis. It's always bothered me why they went around and killed Kenneth. It's not like he would get custody of Hanna's older girl.

Remember 2 points in Luke's testimony:
1. Billy saying to Luke when they (CR, KR and Luke) came over to warm up the backhoe so BW could start it that CR and KR were good people but if he got into a beef/a fight with them "he'd half to kill them." I take that to mean that if you go after a Rhoden, you were in for the fight of your life. BW took these men seriously.
2. There was just a brief question about someone beating up/fighting with CR and Kenneth going after that person to retaliate.
The prosecution has to be going somewhere with these points.

If we assume that custody is the prime motivator, it would never be enough to kill just Hanna because it would point right to Jake and the Rhodens would go for custody. (Jake still had that little sex with an underage girl problem.) So killing the folks on Union HIll Road was necessary to cover the motive and to eliminate competition for custody. (although I still don't get why Frankie and Hannah Hazel had to die and you could imagine a sane person not killing CR or GR).

However. It's obvious from the above that BW knew Chris and Kenny would go after whoever killed Hanna, Dana and Chris Jr. So eliminating Chris was essential to the plan. But BW also knew that if Kenny figured out who did the killing, then KR would be coming for him. In essence, BW knew the Rhodens well enough that he feared retaliation so he wiped out those likely to retaliate. In my view, that's why KR had to be killed. BW feared him. I also think BW might have had other motives not necessarily evident to his sons, in terms of personal rivalry over the drugs or something else we haven't heard about yet. Not even my opinion--just thoughts from what I've heard and seen today.
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Agree, Another reason the Wagners couldn't leave Kenny alive was because the W's feared retaliation from him. He would come after the Wagners either by legal or other means.
 
Could someone post a good pic of the mower-thing in relation to the porch/front door?
I am wondering if a shooter snuck up to that position as they were going inside or if that position is easily seen from the porch.
 
ColMustard said:
It was interesting what Luke said to the reporter in the interview after testifying. That interview is a few pages back. He suspected because of something his dad told him.
............

Could have been a scuffle with Gary.
Click to expand...
Adding it here.

Someone asked me today why LE decided to look at the Wagners. One likely answer is that Luke and perhaps others told LW that they should be suspects.
 
dgfred said:
Could someone post a good pic of the mower-thing in relation to the porch/front door?
I am wondering if a shooter snuck up to that position as they were going inside or if that position is easily seen from the porch.
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Lots of great photos at this link: Pike county trial continues with more crime scene photos

Including this photo of the mower in relation to the house. Well there is a photo at this link and I can't get it to save on my computer to attach here!
 
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