OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #75

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dgfred said:
Anybody know much of the 2nd JW wife. Dang... didn't she watch the news?

At lunch today the Oxygen channel showing Piketown Murders... but before AW pled.
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IIRC, it wasn't very good and got quite a few things wrong. Wouldn't watch again. Listened to the last episode of that podcast everyone raved about, from the week before GW3's trial. Very, very bad. I can't believe how much information they literally made up and falsely linked to the victims, etc. They revived that old rumor about the Rhoden victims being mutilated, only they made it more gruesome by speculating some weird tool was used by "the CARTEL". They really look dumb now. Hopefully, someone will sue them.
 
dgfred said:
Yes... kept saying over and over what a prominent family the Wagner's were... Fredericka was so giving to the locality.
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Yeah, she was giving, all right. It's amazing how much PR magic that family was able to work in the news and social media. They had some people feeling more sympathy for their wretched souls than the victims.

That afternoon when Jake confessed at his pre-trial hearing brought the whole fairy tale to an end.
 
This comes at random, but wanted to share my thoughts anyway. All are IMHO: After having watched testimony Monday-Wednesday this week (Oct.-3-5), here is now my thinking on why all 8 really had to go in the mind of the Wagner's. JW was always expecting HR to come back to him and when she finally got together with CH and was really happy and making long term plans, JW started thining if I can't have you then no one can. Getting sole custody of SW and getting her away from CH's sister and her wife was an added bonus; IIRC they lived very close by to where CH and HR were going to live. IMO all the Wagner's had issues with his sister having a wife. Of course CRSr. and DR could either hinder JW getting custody himself or get custody of S themselves. IIRC, HR said in FB messages to TC that she had a smart uncle that could help her get custody of S. That IMO was most likely KR. Also, BW said in his interview from the parking lot that CRSr, KR, and GR were very close and always together. So IMO they could of known alot about HR's troubles with the W's. IMO-FR was very protective of HR and was particularly unhappy with JW (think about the FB messages that were not allowed from a female and male source. I rewound the Law and Crime Youtube feed to read them. They were shown quite clear on the screen from that feed). HHG and little Chris were just there so had to go, too. Again, just wanted to share my thoughts because to me things became alot clearer after having listened to the testimony on those days. Again all IMO and yes I know there has already been alot of discussion in the past about why all of those 8.
 
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Ann99 said:
Is the big grey/blue barn where the silencer was finally discovered?
if so, he should mention that to give it more meaning and context, importance.
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Large red barn Scheiderer mentioned. Well/cistern was inside of barn. (Barn looks gray now.)

1665090359963.png

The Wagner's well/cistern was described as having a shallow water basin with the water being black and murky, full of sludge, and they couldn't see through it. Defiance Farms Photos

1665090511207.png
They searched the well/cistern on 2 different days. The first time they used a metal detector and found a rifle casing - during testimony it was also referred to as a metal jacket - that encased the actual bullet. It was 7.62 by 39 for a 30 caliber and was burnt, exposed to fire/heat of some sort. It matches the ballistics found at scene #1, Chris Sr's.

The 2nd day they brought in a dive team.

Also found were several metal items recovered - unspecified - and a glass bottle. Right away they found the "smoking gun" an aluminium maglite tube fashioned into a suppressor. The serial number showed it was manufactured in January 2016.

The maglite was submitted to ATF who confirmed it was a suppressor, it met government standards. It was fired at least one time, they could see a bullet strike inside. It contained some of the items (to build a suppressor) that the Wagner's purchased from February 2016 to April 2016.
 
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24Roses said:
This comes at random, but wanted to share my thoughts anyway. All are IMHO: After having watched testimony Monday-Wednesday this week (Oct.-3-5), here is now my thinking on why all 8 really had to go in the mind of the Wagner's. JW was always expecting HR to come back to him and when she finally got together with CH and was really happy and making long term plans, JW started thining if I can't have you then no one can. Getting sole custody of SW and getting her away from CH's sister and her wife was an added bonus; IIRC they lived very close by to where CH and HR were going to live. IMO all the Wagner's had issues with his sister having a wife. Of course CRSr. and DR could either hinder JW getting custody himself or get custody of S themselves. IIRC, HR said in FB messages to TC that she had a smart uncle that could help her get custody of S. That IMO was most likely KR. Also, BW said in his interview from the parking lot that CRSr, KR, and GR were very close and always together. So IMO they could of known alot about HR's troubles with the W's. IMO-FR was very protective of HR and was particularly unhappy with JW (think about the FB messages that were not allowed from a female and male source. I rewound the Law and Crime Youtube feed to read them. They were shown quite clear on the screen from that feed). HHG and little Chris were just there so had to go, too. Again, just wanted to share my thoughts because to me things became alot clearer after having listened to the testimony on those days. Again all IMO and yes I know there has already been alot of discussion in the past about why all of those 8.
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Yup. When a woman leaves a man is the most dangerous time in the relationship. Add mommy dearest as the instigator with Billy also having a beef to revenge, it was the perfect storm.
 
Pru2U said:
We still have their voice recordings (after return from Alaska) and is JW’s 2nd wife on the witness list? If so, probably her testimony; then there’s the threats GW made. I think we might hear all the wire tap convos before we get to JW & AW. Just a guess.
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If they want to finish up firearms, they need Jake to testify about where the guns were stashed and how he told LE where to find them.
 
24Roses said:
This comes at random, but wanted to share my thoughts anyway. All are IMHO: After having watched testimony Monday-Wednesday this week (Oct.-3-5), here is now my thinking on why all 8 really had to go in the mind of the Wagner's. JW was always expecting HR to come back to him and when she finally got together with CH and was really happy and making long term plans, JW started thining if I can't have you then no one can. Getting sole custody of SW and getting her away from CH's sister and her wife was an added bonus; IIRC they lived very close by to where CH and HR were going to live. IMO all the Wagner's had issues with his sister having a wife. Of course CRSr. and DR could either hinder JW getting custody himself or get custody of S themselves. IIRC, HR said in FB messages to TC that she had a smart uncle that could help her get custody of S. That IMO was most likely KR. Also, BW said in his interview from the parking lot that CRSr, KR, and GR were very close and always together. So IMO they could of known alot about HR's troubles with the W's. IMO-FR was very protective of HR and was particularly unhappy with JW (think about the FB messages that were not allowed from a female and male source. I rewound the Law and Crime Youtube feed to read them. They were shown quite clear on the screen from that feed). HHG and little Chris were just there so had to go, too. Again, just wanted to share my thoughts because to me things became alot clearer after having listened to the testimony on those days. Again all IMO and yes I know there has already been alot of discussion in the past about why all of those 8.
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Interesting observations. I think Gary was killed only because he was there living with Chris at the time. Collateral damage. Hannah G was likely collateral damage or Jake shooting her 5 times was revenge on her brother having Hanna's baby. This would hurt Charley G.

I am beginning to wonder if Kenny knew about the late night meeting with Chris. Chris could have mentioned telling Kenny. This means Kenny could directly place Billy going to Chris's house that night so he had to go.

Just makes me wonder.
 
24Roses said:
This comes at random, but wanted to share my thoughts anyway. All are IMHO: After having watched testimony Monday-Wednesday this week (Oct.-3-5), here is now my thinking on why all 8 really had to go in the mind of the Wagner's. JW was always expecting HR to come back to him and when she finally got together with CH and was really happy and making long term plans, JW started thining if I can't have you then no one can. Getting sole custody of SW and getting her away from CH's sister and her wife was an added bonus; IIRC they lived very close by to where CH and HR were going to live. IMO all the Wagner's had issues with his sister having a wife. Of course CRSr. and DR could either hinder JW getting custody himself or get custody of S themselves. IIRC, HR said in FB messages to TC that she had a smart uncle that could help her get custody of S. That IMO was most likely KR. Also, BW said in his interview from the parking lot that CRSr, KR, and GR were very close and always together. So IMO they could of known alot about HR's troubles with the W's. IMO-FR was very protective of HR and was particularly unhappy with JW (think about the FB messages that were not allowed from a female and male source. I rewound the Law and Crime Youtube feed to read them. They were shown quite clear on the screen from that feed). HHG and little Chris were just there so had to go, too. Again, just wanted to share my thoughts because to me things became alot clearer after having listened to the testimony on those days. Again all IMO and yes I know there has already been alot of discussion in the past about why all of those 8.
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I agree completely with all of this.

Also, I'd add after listening to that interview of Billy, I detected some jealousy there.

Chris and I grew up different.. he had it hard, had to work hard for what he had.. I was a trust fund baby. (surface level that sounds great.. trust fund baby.. I think he envied Chris for working so hard to have what he did. He envied how close his family was. He was jealous because they wanted to be around each other because they cared for one another vs some sick control/loyalty/obligation (think of Billy mentioning he just takes care of his dad.. so much of that seemed fake) FW seems like the controlling type also. She is a business woman who I am sure worked hard also, but she seems like it's conditional love, like you owe me something type of success/love/parenting. Maybe Billy was jealous of his buddy. I got the feeling Chris Sr would have done anything for his friends, but Billy's motives were always about him and his help was likely always conditional. Maybe that is all he new based on how he was raised.
 
Cool Cats said:
Interesting observations. I think Gary was killed only because he was there living with Chris at the time. Collateral damage. Hannah G was likely collateral damage or Jake shooting her 5 times was revenge on her brother having Hanna's baby. This would hurt Charley G.

I am beginning to wonder if Kenny knew about the late night meeting with Chris. Chris could have mentioned telling Kenny. This means Kenny could directly place Billy going to Chris's house that night so he had to go.

Just makes me wonder.
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Oh yes IMO if Gary wasn't there with Chris Sr, he would most likely not have been killed. I just thought that becaue he did live with CR that he probably confided in GR alot. I don't think the W's would have went to Kentucky to kill him or waited to make sure he was home at that time.
Both were most likely true of HHG.
I think because according to BW, KR was so close to CRSr. he knew alot more than the other brothers knew.
Again all IMO.
 
All good assessments! Thanks! I also think some of Billy's jealousy was more envy of Chris being successful in his "business ventures". Maybe he thought that by getting rid of Chris, he could steal his money and take over his business. Killing Chris was probably seen as removing some formidable competition. Without Chris, the big guys would have to work with Billy.
 
Cool Cats said:
Interesting observations. I think Gary was killed only because he was there living with Chris at the time. Collateral damage. Hannah G was likely collateral damage or Jake shooting her 5 times was revenge on her brother having Hanna's baby. This would hurt Charley G.

I am beginning to wonder if Kenny knew about the late night meeting with Chris. Chris could have mentioned telling Kenny. This means Kenny could directly place Billy going to Chris's house that night so he had to go.

Just makes me wonder.
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I can't wait to hear the exact story Jake tells. There are so many pieces I just can't quite see where they fit yet.

Remember that text from DR to CR at 330 am or so? We don't know if that was the Wagners or if that was really her. We know they went to Kenneths a couple times. Then were heading back to Union Hill Road after 3am toward CRsr and Dana's.. they had to go past their houses to get to their house on Peterson Road. So maybe they just drove back past to drop the truck off and go home, but what if that is when they killed Dana, Hannah, and Chris Jr. That text could be Dana hearing something and texting him. If only we knew the content, but they took the phones so we only have the data showing a text was sent is my understanding. Maybe that was Jake or one of them using her phone to send that text as they went back past the house.

My guess is they can't get location data either unless they have the actual phone?

Another thing is Billy's interview he said if they could call for help the others would be up there in no time (something like that). It makes a lot more sense to me if they were going to prevent anyone from coming to the rescue, I would bet it would be Kenneth so why not kill him first?

They kill CRsr and GR, then stay in that general area for 2 hours before heading to Kenny's to see if anything was amiss.. then they didn't kill him and instead drove all the way back to union hill to take out everyone else before going back to Kenny's..

In that time they were at CRsr and GR, we know Frankie's son was dropped off, but the mom stayed since Frankie wasn't home yet. So now we have another car and more activity over at Frankie's (right next door to CRsr's) until 10:15-10:30 is when she said she left and Frankie was home at that point. So we have Frankie arriving home and his sons mom leaving. Either they all just narrowly missed seeing the Wagners at CRsr's or they did and didn't realize it.

So many questions, but really the main thing I see is all 3 were there and present. They needed lookouts. They had too many people to worry about and even more so than the ones they were killing, as Billy told BCI, if there was any hint of trouble, then Chris's family members would be up there to help. If something went wrong and Chris was able to call for help, how many family members would potentially show up? No way they plan to carry this out and don't bring George even at the minimum for a lookout when they are in there committing all these murders.
 
Chelly said:
I am compelled to agree with @RAISINISBACK. AC is waisting too much of the jury's time pointing out the Wagners are a bad family. The jury gets that by now. AC needs to begin focusing on George's involvement.
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I second this. The jury will get frustrated and that’s not good.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
To me, today was about showing why the Wags went to the top of the suspect list, from the gun list to Billy's behavior and the lies he told in the interview to things like Jake asking what Brentley saw.

It's worth remembering that George is the one Wagner that has doesn't have a OBVIOUS connection to the murders. Jake confessed to killing 5 people and has the obvious motive against the Rhodens. Billy is the means of getting CR Sr. out of his house to shoot him. Angela (and her mother, yet to testify) is all up in the counterfeit custody papers, ordering shoes, and monitoring Hanna's FB. The defense made the idiotic point that LE didn't collect George's phone. But they don't need it because what the state wants to show is the conspiracy, so when they take Jake and Billy's phones, they get all the messages that George sent (like his warning to Billy that LE was on site) and the gun list. What THAT shows is George as part of the larger conspiracy, along with two people who have CONFESSED and another one we heard lying and obfuscating and acting like a douche in a police interview today. That's what we need--George working with the others to plan, execute and coverup the murders. And the foundation for that comes with the way he let his mother run his marriage. If he would let her control his sex life, his wife, and his child, how would he not be part of this big murder plan?
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I believe Billy had a motive also. In fact at this point in the trial I believe Billy had a stronger motive than even Jake or Angie did. Not prepared to trot that out yet but there are some things said about Billy that are kind of adding up in my mind. When I get it clear in my own mind I will post to see what all of you think.

JMO
 
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