OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #76

[pittsburghgirl]

AC said "If he testifies." It may be that she sees she just doesn't have the evidence against George other than jake and Angie. And Angie cannot put him at the murder scenes. AC should have waited until she had more evidence against JUST George before charging and arresting him. But she got stuck on that "enmeshed family" theory and is now being made to look like an idiot in a kangaroo court trying to send a man to prison for life on the word of a couple of liars and no evidence. She had one good point in 21 days of trial. George backdated the custody documents. That does not mean he committed murder of 8 people. I don't think it's even illegal unless he tried to use it in family court for custody.

In my opinion, BCI should have charged Jake, Angie and Rita first. They had direct evidence on those three. Those three would have brought George and Billy down. But AC jumped the gun on George and lost her chance to convict him.

It's costing Ohio a bunch of money they don't have to drag out a trial for which they have not introduced a shred of evidence that George was even in Ohio that night. AC is just not getting the job done. She needs to cut her losses and move on to Billy, which i think they do have evidence on, since he is the one who told his cousin he wanted to buy the truck and he is the one who took it before sunrise and gave it to his niece ect. At least they can show Billy involved which they have failed to do with George yet.

JMO

She had two guilty pleas without the cost of the trial, one on the primary shooter and the other on the person who stayed at home. That was a big deal. If the state can get the right deal (as they did with these 2), it's a no-brainer to take life without parole. No trial, no costly death penalty appeals, no dragging the family through a year or more of trials.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo I thought today with all the build up of recordings at the border they were finally going to have evidence against George. Once again I waited and waited to be told no the recording were not usable.

Me too. I thought these were the infamous comments he made on tape, then fizzle.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo I was listening closely to those text messages and watching those dates and thinking the whole time the next text will be George saying something incriminating. At the end of Angela’s texting I was like don’t stop there has to be something with George but no nothing. So disappointed.

Yeppers. I was waiting to. I have a feeling we are going to still be waiting when the jury comes back with a verdict.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

A lot of time so far has been spent submitting evidence. And you have a lot of that. Eight murder victims, 4 crime scenes, and that is just for starters. You can't have testimony before evidence is submitted. There is a lot of housekeeping that has to be done. That is the law. It must be done this way. And much of the evidence won't even be tied together until the closing argument. This is typical of every trial I have ever watched. Down to the Defense pulling tricks out of their hat. Trials are boring! Someone's life is on the line, Trials are not for our entertainment. And they are not like what is presented on TV shows, at all. Moo.

You put this very well.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Jmo Exactly a life is on the line. The state needs to talk about George. He is on trial but 98.9% of the evidence has been about Jake and Angela. I would like to see the stats as to how many times outside of opening statements the state has said George’s name.

10 if you include Billy calling him a MFer, a Bast**rd and a monster and Angie can have him and Jake both. lol

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Listen to her testimony again @Betty P . The defense got her to admit most of what she told wasn't the way it really happened. Like she moved in with them at aged 19 when it was really aged 11. That she hid in the dark and fled for her life on a bicycle but admitted George came after her and tried to get her to come back home. When she refused he drove on. The way she told it she feared for her life, but if George wanted to kill her why didn't he just do it out on that dark road instead of just driving on. She lied about them keeping her locked up and wouldn't let her see her family when in fact she told George it was impossible for her to be faithful and that her mother was taking her to meet "Jay". What's locked up about that? She recanted most of her testimony on cross.

No I don't have a link. It is in Tabitha's testimony. After the break it looked like she had been crying. I think that is because all that information the defense had could have only came from George and she never expected him to betray her that way so she was really hurt. I think she is still in love with him.

JMO

I think the age 11 vs. age 19 thing is understandable. I don't thing she thought she was "living with George" at age 11, just that she was living at the Wagner's. We know she hid in the dark and took a bicycle to get to a phone and all 5 of them, including Hanna, tried to get her to come back. It doesn't seem reasonable that she would just be shot on the street. We know from the Facebook testimony that Hanna also left for similar reasons. (And though she hasn't testified, Jake's ex-wife EW ran straight to the police. That is a pattern of young females escaping from that family. I think AC straightened out most of that timeline on re-direct.

There's no question that Tabitha's history left her open to brutal treatment on cross-examination. I don't think she lied. I think the state has verified what happened to her, what she did and said, before trial. But I think everyone other than the pervert defense attorney would realize that an 11-year-old is not an adult who can "live with" a teenage girl. She was being sexually abused in that home and she had been in her mother's and with the adult man she got involved with. That was absolutely clear to me that I was watching someone with PTSD or C-PTSD reliving her trauma from question to question. She showed courage and integrity and I both believed her and felt great sadness at the abuses of her early life. My opinion only. I think the jury will see the pattern--Tabitha, Hanna, EW.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Is it a crime to know a murder has happened but you say nothing?

Someone said a while back that in Ohio law not turning someone in doesn't go to conspiracy if that someone is a family member like a mom, dad and brother.

JMO

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Me too. I thought these were the infamous comments he made on tape, then fizzle.

JMO

Evidence of the conspiracy is evidence against George.

 

[justtrish]

Just makes you ask, where were their parents? What were they thinking, letting an 11 yo sleep with a 13 yo?

JMO

It's very sad and I am glad she was able to take the stand and tell her story. There are more victims in this case than those that were murdered. I hope she knows she did good and her story is important. No matter how the defense tried to accuse her of lying or not telling the entire story, it is her story and she told it. She was abused by her step dad, neglected by her own mother, then abused by the Wagners. Taking in an 11 year old abuse victim is one thing, allowing her to sleep in your teenage sons bed, just abusing her again. Poor girl likely didn't know what normal was for a long time. None of that was okay and the way the defense went at her was not okay either. She never denied living with George at 11 she wasn't asked about it until he accused her of lying about it. It's easy to make a witness look however you want by twisting things, asking confusing questions, trying to get them upseet, etc. Sad the defense chose to do that to her when she really didn't say much bad about George and even said good things. She was believable and what I took from all of her testimony is people failed her, Angela scared and threatened her, she fled because she was afraid of Angela, she trusted George that she would have her son once she had her own place, and that was it. It was to show the dynamic in that house of Angela setting the rules and pressuring the custody issue for her and for Hanna.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think the age 11 vs. age 19 thing is understandable. I don't thing she thought she was "living with George" at age 11, just that she was living at the Wagner's. We know she hid in the dark and took a bicycle to get to a phone and all 5 of them, including Hanna, tried to get her to come back. It doesn't seem reasonable that she would just be shot on the street. We know from the Facebook testimony that Hanna also left for similar reasons. (And though she hasn't testified, Jake's ex-wife EW ran straight to the police. That is a pattern of young females escaping from that family. I think AC straightened out most of that timeline on re-direct.

There's no question that Tabitha's history left her open to brutal treatment on cross-examination. I don't think she lied. I think the state has verified what happened to her, what she did and said, before trial. But I think everyone other than the pervert defense attorney would realize that an 11-year-old is not an adult who can "live with" a teenage girl. She was being sexually abused in that home and she had been in her mother's and with the adult man she got involved with. That was absolutely clear to me that I was watching someone with PTSD or C-PTSD reliving her trauma from question to question. She showed courage and integrity and I both believed her and felt great sadness at the abuses of her early life. My opinion only. I think the jury will see the pattern--Tabitha, Hanna, EW.

Once again listen to her testimony. She was riding her bike down a dark road when George and jake pulled up beside her. George tried to get her to come home. She refused and rode her bike on to the store/phone. Once there she did not call police. The w's did. For which the police office gave her a ticket. George gave her the money to pay it days later. She then got back in the car with George DAYS LATER so he could take her to pay that ticket. The judge gave George a PROTECTION ORDER against Tabitha. He dropped it a few days later. Does not sound like she was afraid for her life or that she was in the least bit afraid of George if she got in the car with him days later.

She said that Angie gave her infant Xanax during a noon to 3 PM visitation but yet the baby did not become unresponsive until 3 TO 4 HOURS later. Then admitted her mother in which home she was living with her infant DAUGHTER (Remember the home of the sexually abusing stepfather?) had been prescribed many different medications.

Please listen to all of her testimony again along with what she admitted on cross examination. Carefully listen to it.

I am not saying she was not sexually abused as a child by her stepfather with her mothers knowledge. And I have been hammering on here for WEEKS that allowing an 11 year old girl and your 13 year old son to sleep together and have sex in your house for a YEAR is sexual abuse for BOTH HER and GEORGE. Angie and Billy should both get 30 years for that alone.

So listen to it again carefully because I think we have picked this cotton field clean and I am done.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Evidence of the conspiracy is evidence against George.

If evidence of a conspiracy is evidence against George even if he wasn't involved then that means you and I could be part of that conspiracy. They have to present proof George was part of any conspiracy his family was involved in.

<modsnip: snarky> My son went to the store, I did not go. Therefore I cannot be accused of or charged with a conspiracy to go to the store. There has to be proof I went or participated in him going by lending him my car.

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

You have to have George linked to conspiracy. George had to conspire in some way. Conspiracy isn’t automatic, there has to be some action.

And...the trial isn't over yet.

 

[SuziQ]

Jmo well when they present that evidence I will listen but maybe not as intently as I did today because I was disappointed

You thought you would hear what you want in one day? In most trials of this magnitude you may not see evidence you seek for weeks on end. Imo.

 

[SuziQ]

I said years ago that Jake was just your garden variety domestic abuser. He isn't the first to kill an ex GF/wife and her entire family because she left him and he won't be the last. A guy in GA killed his ex wife, her sister, her sisters husband, his children, then drove 90 miles to kill his ex wife's parents and younger brother.

It happens. He was so jealous and he didn't want to let her go because he groomed her from the age of 12 or 13. he wasn't about to let her have a life away from him and he had to punish her for leaving by killing her whole family.

I think Jake did it out of jealousy, Billy because he wanted to move in on Chris's drug business and Angie because she wanted to be viewed as a very important part of the family because only she could take care of the kids.

I think if they hadn't been caught, George and Jake would have ended up in a horrible accident when their brakes went out while driving their semi truck and Angie would have collected all that life insurance on them, then her and Billy could live together with both kids calling her mom and Billy dad. Later on BW and SW would have been next, when Angie needed more money.

She is a sick woman. You read about women like her who kill their whole family for life insurance money.

They should dig her dad up and do an autopsy on him because he inherited his house when he died and she had life insurance she was paying on him every month in her bills.

JMO

Omg, I can totally see this as what could have been. AW is very sick. Imo.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thank you for saying this. We have waited a long time for this. The families of these victims have waited a long time as well. This part might be boring, but I do see each day something sticking out. It really is showing how the investigation unfolded. It's showing the steps the investigators took and really painting the picture of how it wasn't simple, there wasn't DNA, there were no fingerprints, the murderers took drastic steps before, during, and after to cover their tracks.

I think what we are seeing the last 4 weeks worth show how much work was done. What road blocks they hit, what things that happened that made them say wait a minute. There are laws to protect people so they couldn't just take phones day 1. They had to ask for voluntary compliance with that.. Jake refused. Phones were changed, evidence destroyed, even attempts to throw them off.

While many just want to hear what they have on George, we can't rush past the groundwork that has been laid. Some of what was presented ruled things out, some rules things in for further investigation. They have to present their case, but also play a defensive game also and present things that the defense will try to distract the jury with.

I think the case for George is more complex because he was least involved, wasn't directly part of the motive, didn't get interviewed early on, didn't give up a phone for the evidence early on, etc. They can just show he was there and part of their lives for that year prior, he was also showing the same behaviors as his family, he purchased some items, was often working with dad and Jake, lived with mom and Jake, was seen running errands together weekly, etc.

If they didn't present all this, then the defense would be, George wasn't part of the family. What evidence do you have to show he was involved with his brother, dad, mom, etc.


They also don't have to show he did much, even just one act that assisted is considered part of the conspiracy. What roles each had do not matter, how much each participant did, doesn't matter, if he went that night or didn't, if he shot anyone or didn't, etc. None of that matters. They need to show he participated in any way, knew about it in any way, etc. We may not see some smoking gun because the fact is if he bought the parts for a silencer and helped buy and modify the truck and then didn't do anything else, he is just as guilty.

I am here for all of it and have zero expectation each day as evidence is presented. I know at the end when it's all presented as a whole, it will make sense.

They need to show he participated in any way, knew about it in any way, etc. We may not see some smoking gun because the fact is if he bought the parts for a silencer and helped buy and modify the truck and then didn't do anything else, he is just as guilty.

BBM
They have not shown any of this. They have not shown he participated. They have not shown he knew about it. They have not placed him at the murder scenes. They testified through texts between Angie and Jake today in court that Angie and Jake bought the parts for the silencers. He went with his mom and brother to buy a truck his dad (Billys) wanted to buy maybe because he attended mechanical school. They have not shown he helped modify the truck.

Like I said I am still waiting for AC to get George across the Kentucky border into Ohio on the night of April 21, 2016 at 11:00 PM. So far AC has not proved George knew, was involved, participated or covered up anything.

I am still waiting. And if AC is depending on Jake to prove her case then she is depending on a broken stick to hold her up off the ground. AC even said in court today "Everyone knows Jake is a damn liar." So she knows her case is weak.

In the USA people are innocent until proven guilty, not guilty until proven innocent. It would behoove all of us to remember that and view this trial with a clear unbiased eye.

JMO

 

[SuziQ]

AC said "If he testifies." It may be that she sees she just doesn't have the evidence against George other than jake and Angie. And Angie cannot put him at the murder scenes. AC should have waited until she had more evidence against JUST George before charging and arresting him. But she got stuck on that "enmeshed family" theory and is now being made to look like an idiot in a kangaroo court trying to send a man to prison for life on the word of a couple of liars and no evidence. She had one good point in 21 days of trial. George backdated the custody documents. That does not mean he committed murder of 8 people. I don't think it's even illegal unless he tried to use it in family court for custody.

In my opinion, BCI should have charged Jake, Angie and Rita first. They had direct evidence on those three. Those three would have brought George and Billy down. But AC jumped the gun on George and lost her chance to convict him.

It's costing Ohio a bunch of money they don't have to drag out a trial for which they have not introduced a shred of evidence that George was even in Ohio that night. AC is just not getting the job done. She needs to cut her losses and move on to Billy, which i think they do have evidence on, since he is the one who told his cousin he wanted to buy the truck and he is the one who took it before sunrise and gave it to his niece ect. At least they can show Billy involved which they have failed to do with George yet.

JMO

Imo, if Jake testifies is in regards to him deciding not to. And he could decide not to. It doesn't take much to get hooked into a conspiracy charge. You don't have to be present at the crime. Angie wasn't and she pled guilty on that fact. And yet she got 30 years. Again, the trial is not done. More revelations to come.imo.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

When you really think about this though we are talking about an 11 year old staying with a boy many years older and sleeping in his bed. This is abuse, not her "living with George" and I don't see it as a lie to be questioned and talk about when you moved in at the point you were actually dating this person and then married to him. She wasn't asked about anything at 11 so when the defense is basically attacking an abuse victim about living with her "boyfriend" at 11, I find it disgusting. I don't consider that her recanting or lying. The time she left fearing for her life, she was running from her mother in law that threatened to get a gun. I wouldn't think I'd want to go home with my husband that time either. It's my opinion that she could not tell every possible thing that happened on direct and when the defense gets it's turn it's looking for what wasn't said to try to "catch her lying" and make her look bad to discredit her testimony. That does not make her testimony false and again an 11 year old living with her boyfriend is NOT a choice. She was abused at home and the situation she walked into a the Wagner's was abuse again. She was truthful on the stand, admitted she loved George, she wanted to move out of that house and live with George. This testimony wasn't to show how abusive George is, but to show the hold that Angela had on her sons and their lives. She even admitted she was conflicted still about it all. She didn't bash George and I felt said some good things about him as well. We can all feel how we feel about this testimony, but she is a victim of the Wagner's and given what happened to Jake's ex girlfriend and her entire family (regardless of which Wagner's did each thing charged) suggests to me that her fear and running for her life was likely for good reason. She is lucky to be alive to tell her story on the stand.

11 year old staying with a boy many years older and sleeping in his bed.
He was 13. They were both children. He was not some years older over 18 man. Both were sexually abused by being allowed to sleep together. Do you know people go to jail for having sex with an underage boy the same as they do with an underage girl?

This is abuse, not her "living with George"

abuse victim about living with her "boyfriend" at 11,

This is a contradiction. She was living and sleeping in the bed with George in the home for over a year. If you don't call this living together as man and wife what do you call it?

She recanted. She "changed her story" on cross.

Now I am going to leave those of you who disagree with me out in the cotton field still picking away because I am done with this.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

What year did you drive from BC to AK? Cell phone service has dramatically improved over the years.

JMO

2009

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I hope BCI asked Robin how long the guns had been hidden in her room and whether, at any point in time, some guns had been removed from the collection. JMO, I can't imagine sleeping with that many guns stored in my bedroom, just sayin'. Why didn't they just put them in a shed or something? There are alot of buildings on FWF. Not much livestock left, so plenty of room

I agree. It's reckless, imoo, to have guns strewn about, especially if their owner(s) have not put trigger locks on them.

For those who can afford it, and it certainly appears that FW could, a humidity controlled gun safe is really the best storage for guns. Not to mention, It's also the most responsible way. AMOO But I don't think the Ws were much taken with the notion of acting responsibly.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

11 year old staying with a boy many years older and sleeping in his bed.
He was 13. They were both children. He was not some years older over 18 man. Both were sexually abused by being allowed to sleep together. Do you know people go to jail for having sex with an underage boy the same as they do with an underage girl?

This is abuse, not her "living with George"

abuse victim about living with her "boyfriend" at 11,

This is a contradiction. She was living and sleeping in the bed with George in the home for over a year. If you don't call this living together as man and wife what do you call it?

She recanted. She "changed her story" on cross.

Now I am going to leave those of you who disagree with me out in the cotton field still picking away because I am done with this.

JMO

I call it abuse of both the 11 year-old and the 13 or 14 year-old. It's unconscionable that Billy and Angela allowed and encouraged this behavior. MOO.