OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

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arielilane said:
Jake Wagner entering the Pike Co. Courthouse this morning after his brother George. Heavy security. Brother will face brother today.

Lunch break in OH v. #GeorgeWagnerIV as Jake Wagner, who opted OUT, testifies against his brother. Jake is wearing a tan jail shirt marked INMATE on the back and blue plans. Shacked at wrists and ankles.

Jake sits at the stand. Looks at his brother, GW4. I am sitting behind George so I can't tell whether George looked back or not. But, Jake has looked him several times. Sometimes George's head is down

Angie Canepa asks him how long he's been incarcerated. He says nearly 4 years. He describes how the family intentionally burned down buildings at the Bethel Hill Rd. property where they'd lived for 20 years.

When they bought the farm at Peterson Rd., they put it in George and Jake's name because their insurance history and credit was "clean." He said everyone at knew he Bethel Hill Rd. fires were set intentionally. Moved items out of the house and stored at Chris Rhoden Sr.’s

property and elsewhere. He said after the murders, he volunteered to intentionally wreck GW4's truck for the insurance $$$ b/c it was going to be too expensive to repair the engine. He said his uncle, Chris Newcomb,

knew the wreck was going to happen. Chris N. had testified the wreck wasn't intentional "on my part." He said he nearly died during the wreck. Jake said he went to public school for a month otherwise was home-schooled

Jake is asked if he loves his brother. He says yes. He said it's difficult for him to be here today when asked. When he said he loves GW4, he looks at him. He said he believes GW4 loves him. Would love nothing more than

his brother, mom and dad to be able to go home. He said he was close to his mom, Angela, but closer to George. Closeish to his dad, Billy. He said he and GW4 would go hunting, fishing, ride ATV’s.

GW4 was more the avid hunter because it was "more of a science for him", food plots, migration, etc. He said they poached deer and did spotlighting, shining a light the eyes of deer to stun them and kill them.

Family shopped mostly at Wal-Mart, Kroger, Bass Pro Shops and Cabella's. He would buy items at BassPro because he got points on his credit card. They helped each other pay off debts and he and GW4 shared a bank account

Each member of he family could use the others' account even if they weren't a co-signer. They had family meetings where decisions were made, took votes in the kitchen. If it related to Jake, he had the final say.

Jake said he,George and Billy stole things but they would do it in a way that it hurt someone as little as possible. They would steel from a truck transporting goods for a big company rather than an individual b/c items were insured and driver wouldn't be hurt

They stole fuel, lumber, appliances, things to use on the farm. First met Hanna May at the 4-H barn of the Pike Co. Fair in 2013. Hanna asked him if he wanted to pet her bunny. It was black and white.

Hanna was 13. Jake was 17. Jake asked her parents, Dana and Chris Sr. for permission to date her. Sophia was born on November 18, 2013 at 2:30 p.m., he said.

Hanna May lived with them more after Sophia was born. He was asked about an incident where he choked Hanna May. He said he didn't choke her. She didn't want to do her chore of mowing the lawn. She stormed off and he held his arm on her collar bone.

Jake says "She was lazy in her responsibilities." She was acting like my brother's ex-wife" (Tabitha). He said he held Hanna May with his arm on her collar bone until she calmed down. Said it lasted less than 5 minutes.

Jake didn't want their relationship to end but it did in Feb. 2015. Hanna May started dating Charlie Gilley and later Corey Holdren. He said Sophia told him about them looking her in their bedroom with them for hours.

He said Sophia told him that Corey locked her in a bedroom for hours and she screamed and no one rescued her. He said S screamed for him and he never came to "rescue" her." Sophia would cling to his leg and Dana said "She's just being a brat.”

Jake said there was a history of rape in his mother's family, Hanna May's family and Tabitha's. Jake said he was worried Sophia would be molested. He confronted Hanna May about it and he said she responded "if it happens we'll deal with it.”

Jake says he consulted a lawyer about a custody arrangements and wanting something drawn up but Hanna May was stalling and claimed she was consulting her dad's lawyer in Columbus. Jake didn't believe her.

End of 2015, his mom made him aware of the convo between Hanna May and Tabi's mom where Hanna said she would only sign custody papers "over my dead body" according to Jake.

Angela told him about this in private. He knew Angela was monitoring Tabi and her mom's Facebook accounts to see if Tabi was going to try to get custody of Bulvine.

"I felt I had, I had decided I had no other choice but to kill Hanna," Jake said. However, Billy first made the suggestion and he said he would never do that b/c she was the mother of his child and stormed off.

Billy said the only option would be to kill Hanna May or Sophia. That was January 2016. Jake said he was still hesitant but Hanna May saying "we'll deal with it" if S was molested was "my tipping point."

Jake said his suggestion was to kill Corey and Hanna May and make it look like a murder-suicide - as if Corey killed H and then took his own life. Billy said "if you kill Hanna you have to kill Chris Sr., Frankie and Kenneth" b/c "they'll come after you like
a sniper on a hill. They'd have to kill HANNAH Hazel Gilley and Gary Rhoden, he said b/c they lived in the same houses as the others and they could have "witnesses, would be the proper word.”

Jake said Billy said he would take care of the timing and surrounding events of the homicide. Jake was supposed to get a vehicle and silencers. A vehicle not their own.

Initially, Jake was going to use a Ruger 1022 and Billy would use a Baretta 92. But, in trial and error with the silencer, the Ruger 1022 was destroyed. The SKS belonged to George.

Jake tried to make silencers out of two flashlights - an off-brand ordered off Amazon and then a Maglite. The off-brand flash lights aluminum was too thin. Jake believes they were blue. On Baretta, silencer malfunctioned in final stage of construction

Tossed Maglite in the burn barrel and the other items thrown in a dumpster. (This is odd b/c Maglite found in cistern). Jake then decided to use Colt 1911.22 And Billy a 40 Glock.

The Baretta was given back to Billy. Jake says he is not aware of grips purchased for the Baretta. Jake then decided to use standard oil filters to make silencers. Weld it to SKS and screws on with standard threading?

Jake says he ordered drill bits, taps and dyes to help build a silencer. Also bought freeze plugs. These items purchased in March 2016. Bought a Chevy pick-up, late 90's and early 2000's for $1,500-$2K from Uncle Todd.

The sale happened in the driveway of Peterson Rd. Uncle Todd, Uncle Gus, Jake and GW4 were all there for the transaction. 3 weeks before murders.

Lunch break called after this. Jake looked over at George several times throughout testimony. He also asked Angie Canepa to repeat some question. He awkwardly fumbled around with a small bottle of water to get a sip while handcuffed.

Also before the break, an exhibit was displayed showing the family's list of guns found on Jake's phone. He said it was last modified in May 2015.
https://twitter.com/x/status/1055241380493225985
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Excellent description of the testimony!
 
RAISINISBACK said:
I still don't get why the actual eff Angie wanted to raise her grandchildren. I have 4 grandsons, a great granddaughter and a great grandson. I have probably babysat all 6 a total of 20 hours in 27 years. Don't get me wrong, I love my son and GK's dearly, but I love them from afar, when they are at their own homes.

I just cannot get past Angie goading her sons into killing 8 people so she could take care of and raise a couple of grandkids. I would have been on a fast plane to The Bahamas at the first mention of me raising any GK's.

It blows me away. I think it just really sank in on me today that two parents and two sons killed 8 people to get one child. I have known it all these years but it just didn't sink in on me until reading Jake's testimony that these people really did this over custody of one child.

I have a question. Angie was 44 when they did this right? If she wanted to raise more children why didn't she just have a couple more of kids of her own? She wasn't too old. My niece had her only child at age 42 because she wanted to be established in her career first. And even if she had been too old she could have adopted or had a houseful of foster kids. Why didn't she go into business as a daycare there on Peterson rd. if she was so fond of kids?

I just can't wrap my head around why a mother would destroy her own sons lives so she could work herself to death raising GK's. It is beyond my comprehension.

JMO
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We can't judge these monsters based on our own moral values. They aren't like us. They're criminals, through and through.
 
Betty P said:
Or fear? I've always thought Billy shot him and fear was the reason for overkill.
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From what I learned from Jake today, seems both GW4 and dad Billy had some form of physical reaction to the killing exercise whether it be freezing on the spot or a nervous breakdown leaving one of the homes. Jake, on the other hand, seemed to be the killing machine. Shoot once in the head, go back in the room and shoot again. Do we know for certain all shots were by Billy and that Jake didn't walk back and fire his own extra shots for his satisfaction?
 
Cool Cats said:
Quote:
Jake being the huge coward he is didn't dare show his face on camera. Does he think that will save him in prison? He better think again.

********************************************************************************************************

Speaking of Jake in State prison, because he killed nursing mothers, a teenager, people sleeping, etc...
And because of his notoriety, he could be attacked and then put in lock-down, protective custody, for his own protection.

Then he would be alone in a cell with no access to benefits inmates receive in the general population. A prison within a prison. Sorta like being isolated the way death penalty inmates are isolated.

So he did not want to sit on death row, but serving a sentence isolated mostly 24/7, is like a living death. On top of that he will most likely be flagged as a flight risk because of the breaking out of jail conversations, so I predict maximum security placement for him.

He is classified as level #5 in his jail now, the highest security classification I believe.

Note the extra precautions taken just for him to walk through the courthouse today.
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I think a fitting end to this grim story is put him in a cell with George and let George choke him to death. You can only serve LWOP once.

JMO
 
Pru2U said:
I think it's very possible Jake never wants his daughter to grow up to see or hear him say what he did. If he has the ability to feel shame, it would be because of his daughter.

He may have mouthed "I'm sorry" towards the gallery but I didn't see one single tweet mentioning he prefaced anything with "At the time" (I didn't think I had any other choice but to kill Hanna). Maybe he did but reading through the tweets, it certainly doesn't sound like he's changed his mind.

JMO
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I was thinking the same thing! I’d love to ask him if he still thinks the way he did then. Does he still think the killings were justified, or has he changed his mind and thought process, now that he is away from his family. He mouthed, “I’m sorry”, but is he, really?
 
Pru2U said:
I think panic for CR but DR & HHG...I have issues with those 2. Especially with the baby in the bed.
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Seattle1 said:
From what I learned from Jake today, seems both GW4 and dad Billy had some form of physical reaction to the killing exercise whether it be freezing on the spot or a nervous breakdown leaving one of the homes. Jake, on the other hand, seemed to be the killing machine. Shoot once in the head, go back in the room and shoot again. Do we know for certain all shots were by Billy and that Jake didn't walk back and fire his own extra shots for his satisfaction?
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Jake came across as a stone cold killer based on the words we get from the Twitter reports.
 
arielilane said:
"Jake Wagner, 29, testified this morning that it was his father's idea around January 2016 to "do something" about Hanna Rhoden. And he said he was initially against it"

I call "BS." Wasn't BW the one that said he thought of Hanna May just like a daughter. Sounds more like AW, but we will never know the truth. IMO
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I think it is highly likely AW put it in Billy's head that they needed to "do something" about Hannah. She was the the manipulator and everybody including Billy wanted to please her. She probably got Billy to suggest it, telling him that would solve their problems, and while they were at it they could get rid of ChrisSr & Gary so they wouldn't seek revenge...and better yet if we take out the whole family, they will never be suspected because it will look like a hit by the cartel.
 
justtrish said:
I think this could be the importance of why we saw those texts between Angela and Billy. So many pieces that add up once we now have more of the puzzle.

Billy texted Angela, I have another idea. I'll see if I can find the exact messages now that we have some of Jake's testimony. He was trying to please Angela.. he wanted to leave with Angela.. I think it's possible his motive was not concern for Sophia as much as it was wanting Angela to be pleased with him. She wouldn't stop until they had Sophia and all she did was harp and hound him about how unsafe it was for Sophia..
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That would be the saddest thing in the world. if so, she destroyed her sons, her husband who was trying to please her, and left Sophia essentially orphaned, Bulvine with the woman she detested, and Kylie and Ruger deprived of their mothers in infancy and left it to the system to place them with someone for their whole lifetime. All to please Angela.
 
pittsburghgirl said:
This makes me wonder what Billy's unstated motives might have been. If you recall, in the "other acts" document, there is a point in the "other acts" document that references "allegations" that BW had killed before. If that is so, it might explain why killing Hanna seemed like a solution to a problem they never really had. But I wonder why Billy was so sure that Chris, Sr., Kenneth and Frankie would go after the killers if only Hanna and her new BF were to be victims. Was Bill really that much all-in on the get full custody effort? Or did he want Chris dead for some reason?
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BBM, both

JMO

ETA - It was a perfect storm....
 
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scapa said:
Many thanks to all who are tracking and posting these tweets -- it's a great service for the rest of us trying to follow this often-interrupted trial.

Also, as I read today's testimony it seems clear that this massacre was driven by the Wagner's ongoing family obsession with child molestation and with the extension of their enmeshed mindset over an extended family of new babies and isolated "spouses."

I really wonder to what extent AW transmuted and stage-managed this psychodrama of corruption and purity into the massacre, in which the Rhodens seem almost to have been proxies for real abusers, underwritten by the custody angle.

It really reminds me of some of the more bizarre "fear of grooming" moral panics we've seen in recent years from fringe groups. And the whole family seems to have ignored their own abusive practices in the process of "saving" others. It's just horrific.
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Great points. Jake said, according to the tweets, that it happened in his family. Several people said it happened to Hannah and in her family. Tabby said it happened to her. Rita said Angela was sexually assaulted in the military. Back in 2017, there was a lot of talk about whether the motives where related to the time Clarence Rhoden (CSRSr's dad) did for child molestation. You did not need to look under a rock or crawl up tall trees to find it in this web -- and that can led to or feed paranoia.
 
Myland said:
Jmo today looked like it sealed George’s fate, but I do believe Jake lied about some things to try to make himself and his mother look better (and they didn’t). I don’t believe H responded with we will have to deal with it over the chance of Sophia being harmed. I wish we could have heard it all. And why would he grin and smirk when viewing that video, was he reliving that night in that few seconds? I don’t believe CN went along willingly to risk his life for someone else’s insurance. I don’t believe he was easy as he tried to make it seem when he was choking H. We heard how important chores were to him, he told H to make sure S does hers (a baby now having chores) I don’t believe he closed his eyes when shooting Chris. I still believe him and Angela had some type of weird relationship. Jmo
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Very good points and I agree. From now until his death he will always laugh and relive the killing he did when he sees that movie. The perfect souvenir for a serial killer. You know he will get to see it over and over in prison. That is where he will get his sick pleasure for the rest of his life. And yes I think him and Angie had some kind of weird relationship going on. She was certainly jealous enough of Beth.

Say what you will about George going along, but at least he froze and couldn't go though with actually taking a human life. Somewhere deep inside George there was still a line he could not and would not cross.

Even Billy went nuts when he shot GR and CR.

But not Jake. He took great pleasure in killing them all. A true phsyco.

JMO
 
abeaman02 said:
I think it is highly likely AW put it in Billy's head that they needed to "do something" about Hannah. She was the the manipulator and everybody including Billy wanted to please her. She probably got Billy to suggest it, telling him that would solve their problems, and while they were at it they could get rid of ChrisSr & Gary so they wouldn't seek revenge...and better yet if we take out the whole family, they will never be suspected because it will look like a hit by the cartel.
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I remember it being posted that Angie did a "nag nag nag" at Billy to do something.

Does anyone remember where this came from?
 
justtrish said:
Inaction IS action.

Silence IS agreement.

When those that can change the course of something don't, they are allowing it.

When we see evil and say nothing, we are part of the evil.

He may not have been "as evil" as the rest and maybe he did not agree with the fires for insurance or the wrecked truck for insurance (I sorta feel like he did, but let's just say he didn't like those actions) he sure did profit from them. If he didn't leave that house when those things were going on and continuing to go on, then his inaction allowed all of it. If he didn't want to do these murders, but said nothing that makes him WORSE! I mean come on if he's cleared headed enough to not want to do this or voice doubt and concerns then he might have been the only one that could have stopped them and he did nothing except go along with them.
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Get your points, but I don't think you want to universally apply "Silence is Agreement" to every situation
 
pittsburghgirl said:
This makes me wonder what Billy's unstated motives might have been. If you recall, in the "other acts" document, there is a point in the "other acts" document that references "allegations" that BW had killed before. If that is so, it might explain why killing Hanna seemed like a solution to a problem they never really had. But I wonder why Billy was so sure that Chris, Sr., Kenneth and Frankie would go after the killers if only Hanna and her new BF were to be victims. Was Bill really that much all-in on the get full custody effort? Or did he want Chris dead for some reason?
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What shocked me was Chris Sr knew the W's burned their house for insurance money because they hid some of their possessions on his property before they burned it.

JMO
 
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