OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #79

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We're not mass murderers. There is no way to understand why Jake felt Hanna had to die when Sophia hadn't even been molested or why Billy raised this murder idea in the first place (if that is what actually happened).

I know this is the George4 trial, not the Billy trial, but I can't figure out why Billy wanted Hanna to die--especially when he saw that as meaning Chris, Sr., Kenneth, and Frankie had to die too. I mean, it's not like Jake didn't have custody access to Sophia or like Hanna wanted to cut the family out of her daughters life. Or was i just the old "If my son can't have you, no one can"?
I think this could be the importance of why we saw those texts between Angela and Billy. So many pieces that add up once we now have more of the puzzle.

Billy texted Angela, I have another idea. I'll see if I can find the exact messages now that we have some of Jake's testimony. He was trying to please Angela.. he wanted to leave with Angela.. I think it's possible his motive was not concern for Sophia as much as it was wanting Angela to be pleased with him. She wouldn't stop until they had Sophia and all she did was harp and hound him about how unsafe it was for Sophia..
 
Jmo today looked like it sealed George’s fate, but I do believe Jake lied about some things to try to make himself and his mother look better (and they didn’t). I don’t believe H responded with we will have to deal with it over the chance of Sophia being harmed. I wish we could have heard it all. And why would he grin and smirk when viewing that video, was he reliving that night in that few seconds? I don’t believe CN went along willingly to risk his life for someone else’s insurance. I don’t believe he was easy as he tried to make it seem when he was choking H. We heard how important chores were to him, he told H to make sure S does hers (a baby now having chores) I don’t believe he closed his eyes when shooting Chris. I still believe him and Angela had some type of weird relationship. Jmo
 
Why shoot ChrisSr 9 times? There was a level of hatred JW is trying to minimize, I think. jmo
This makes me wonder what Billy's unstated motives might have been. If you recall, in the "other acts" document, there is a point in the "other acts" document that references "allegations" that BW had killed before. If that is so, it might explain why killing Hanna seemed like a solution to a problem they never really had. But I wonder why Billy was so sure that Chris, Sr., Kenneth and Frankie would go after the killers if only Hanna and her new BF were to be victims. Was Bill really that much all-in on the get full custody effort? Or did he want Chris dead for some reason?
 
Because they got Bulvine. They were able to have him move around with them and Angela could raise another child because her whole persona; her whole worth is tied into raising things and making them into something that she thinks is right
I still don't get why the actual eff Angie wanted to raise her grandchildren. I have 4 grandsons, a great granddaughter and a great grandson. I have probably babysat all 6 a total of 20 hours in 27 years. Don't get me wrong, I love my son and GK's dearly, but I love them from afar, when they are at their own homes.

I just cannot get past Angie goading her sons into killing 8 people so she could take care of and raise a couple of grandkids. I would have been on a fast plane to The Bahamas at the first mention of me raising any GK's.

It blows me away. I think it just really sank in on me today that two parents and two sons killed 8 people to get one child. I have known it all these years but it just didn't sink in on me until reading Jake's testimony that these people really did this over custody of one child.

I have a question. Angie was 44 when they did this right? If she wanted to raise more children why didn't she just have a couple more of kids of her own? She wasn't too old. My niece had her only child at age 42 because she wanted to be established in her career first. And even if she had been too old she could have adopted or had a houseful of foster kids. Why didn't she go into business as a daycare there on Peterson rd. if she was so fond of kids?

I just can't wrap my head around why a mother would destroy her own sons lives so she could work herself to death raising GK's. It is beyond my comprehension.

JMO
 
Sure looks like #jakewagner; albeit six years older than when I sat across from him at his home in Peebles. This will be the first time he has seen his brother since their arrest in November of 2018. #GeorgeWagnerIV #pikecounty. Headed up to court now.

Jake Wagner, 29, testified this morning that it was his father's idea around January 2016 to "do something" about Hanna Rhoden. And he said he was initially against it 1/8

He said he was growing increasingly worried that the daughter he and Rhoden shared may become a victim of child or sexual abuse. "I had a fear for my own daughter." 2/8

"At first I blowed up and said that was my daughter's mother,'' said Wagner, who is the younger brother of #GeorgeWagnerIV who is on trial in the eight shooting deaths of member of the Rhoden family. 3/8

He said he thinks that "he thinks" his mother, Angela Wagner was there for the conversation. But then, he and Hanna Rhoden had an an argument and after that "I went to my father and told him we had to do it." 4/8

At that point, he testified that he and his father, George "Billy" Wagner — who has pleaded not guilty and his trial is pending — began to plan the homicides. At first, Wagner testified that he wanted to kill Hanna and her then boyfriend, Cory Holdren. 5/8

He said he thought he could make it look like a murder-suicide. But he determined he couldn't get access to the couple. His father said there was no way they could kill Hanna without killing her father, Chris Rhoden, Sr. 6/8

So then the plan become that they would kill Hanna; her father, Chris Sr., 40; her brother, Frankie, 20; and her uncle, Kenneth, 44. However, Wagner said they knew the others living with them would likely have to be killed as well. 7/8

"I think the proper word would be they would be witnesses,'' he said. His father would plan the timing and the "surroundings. Jake Wagner's role: Buy a truck to avoid detection and get firearms and silencers. 8/8

When he walked into the courtroom, handcuffed by a leather belt around his waist and in a mis-matched jail uniform, he sat and looked directly at his brother and held the stare for a few seconds. His brother looked down, as he often does doodling and writing on a legal pad. 1/6

At one point when lawyers were on a sidebar at the bench, Wagner scanned the packed courtroom and seemed to lock eyes with someone sitting among the family members. "I'm sorry" he mouthed. 2/6

Then he looked down, blinked quickly and cleared his throat. Throughout his testimony, he has shown little emotion and often pauses appearing to look for the right word. He often asks Special Prosecutor Angela Canepa to repeat her questions. He has impaired hearing. 3/6

His hair is shorter, pulled back in a short ponytail, has a closely shaved mustache and goatee and is wearing glasses. 4/6

Wagner's testimony is key to the largely circumstantial case against his brother. There is much more testimony ahead, but Wagner has only said his brother was with him and his father when they bought the Chevy pick-up truck from his great-uncle to be used in the homicides. 5/6

More to come after lunch break. Headed back to secure my seat in the very packed courtroom. 6/6

CORRECTION (typing too fast) Should be Corey Holdren (who, by the way, previously testified in the case). Unknown if he was aware of this plan.

https://twitter.com/chrisgraves
 
What a considerate guy. So he is the one who shot her and moved her.
But this was not said in court yet if I understand you correctly right?
It was said by AC in opening statement. I think it is a lie to make Jake seem more likable to the jury since the coroner said Hannah was shot twice in the back of the head while lying on her side.

JMO
 
Have we heard when they took the truck? It would have been after Jake confessed right? They didn't know about this before that?

I recall testimony about one of the boys cleaning this truck out when they were at FWF one day after they gave it to Billy's brother. Who was testifying to that? They said it was odd while they were all out at FWF someone was cleaning the truck.
Billy cleaned it out. Angie asked him why.
 
He looks like he's really clenching his jaw and glaring at JW every now and again. Must be talking about the road trips they all made together and how GWIV in his "ugly tennis shoes" stood guard over CRJR's room, gun in hand, as JW shot DR, then HR, then back again to DR before JW came and went into CRJR's bedroom.
he's doing that grinding his teeth thing Billy does that irritated Chris N so much. lol
 
"Jake Wagner, 29, testified this morning that it was his father's idea around January 2016 to "do something" about Hanna Rhoden. And he said he was initially against it"

I call "BS." Wasn't BW the one that said he thought of Hanna May just like a daughter. Sounds more like AW, but we will never know the truth. IMO
 
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Much thanks and gratitude to all who posted tweets today. Greatly appreciated by those who aren’t online during the day. I had no idea Jake was testifying today. I wouldn’t have been able to concentrate on work if I had. Absolutely shocking to read Jake‘s own account of that night. IMO he’s coming across like Perry Edward Smith who murdered the Clutter family— totally devoid of humanity. I hope tomorrow he will provide more information about motive because none of it makes sense. I can’t imagine the pain that the Rhoden, Manley, and Gilley families endured today. Heartbreaking.
 
It's a huge mistake to project our own healthy, normal experiences--which can cover a range of lifestyles and relationship patterns--onto a family who has committed mass murder. When you are dealing with people who are disordered in some way (in this case, a family that habitually engages in obvious anti-social behavior), we risk minimizing their crimes when we overlay our own mostly healthy choices over their criminally inclined ones.
This is a great point. We are not going to understand them based on logic based on our worldview.
 
I still don't get why the actual eff Angie wanted to raise her grandchildren. I have 4 grandsons, a great granddaughter and a great grandson. I have probably babysat all 6 a total of 20 hours in 27 years. Don't get me wrong, I love my son and GK's dearly, but I love them from afar, when they are at their own homes.

I just cannot get past Angie goading her sons into killing 8 people so she could take care of and raise a couple of grandkids. I would have been on a fast plane to The Bahamas at the first mention of me raising any GK's.

It blows me away. I think it just really sank in on me today that two parents and two sons killed 8 people to get one child. I have known it all these years but it just didn't sink in on me until reading Jake's testimony that these people really did this over custody of one child.

I have a question. Angie was 44 when they did this right? If she wanted to raise more children why didn't she just have a couple more of kids of her own? She wasn't too old. My niece had her only child at age 42 because she wanted to be established in her career first. And even if she had been too old she could have adopted or had a houseful of foster kids. Why didn't she go into business as a daycare there on Peterson rd. if she was so fond of kids?

I just can't wrap my head around why a mother would destroy her own sons lives so she could work herself to death raising GK's. It is beyond my comprehension.

JMO
Unfortunately, it's just the perfect storm of sick individuals raising sons that they manipulated and well I believe nature vs nurture here played a big role. The sons learned about the getting ahead via criminal activity and clearly rules didn't apply to them. I am sure they began life rather innocent and just had 2 horrible examples and then allowed them to control their lives. Before you know it they are adults committing the same criminal activities getting away with it and the solution to all problems seems to be some type of criminal activity or forcing others to comply. When they don't, threats and violence follow.

As for Angela wanting the grandkids who knows. She doesn't sound like she had a life outside raising her boys. No career or hobbies other than meddling in everyone's business. She has the farm, but it seems she needed the kids and grandkids to do all the chores on the farm while she sat around stalking FB and plotting insurance frauds. You will not understand why because your solution to problems is not lying, cheating, stealing, manipulating, controlling, and murdering people to get what you want.
 
Dr appointment, sorry.

So they finally showed some evidence against George. Good. I was wondering when this would stop being Jake's show all the way. Him and Angie's. I saw earlier what Billy said about killing SW. All I got to say now is:

Find a tall tree, buy 4 new ropes and hang them all.

When your brother testifies against you and says you helped kill 8 people then it is all over in my mind. You are guilty.

Jake being the huge coward he is didn't dare show his face on camera. Does he think that will save him in prison? He better think again.

JMO

I think it's very possible Jake never wants his daughter to grow up to see or hear him say what he did. If he has the ability to feel shame, it would be because of his daughter.

He may have mouthed "I'm sorry" towards the gallery but I didn't see one single tweet mentioning he prefaced anything with "At the time" (I didn't think I had any other choice but to kill Hanna). Maybe he did but reading through the tweets, it certainly doesn't sound like he's changed his mind.

JMO
 
Much thanks and gratitude to all who posted tweets today. Greatly appreciated by those who aren’t online during the day. I had no idea Jake was testifying today. I wouldn’t have been able to concentrate on work if I had. Absolutely shocking to read Jake‘s own account of that night. IMO he’s coming across like Perry Edward Smith who murdered the Clutter family— totally devoid of humanity. I hope tomorrow he will provide more information about motive because none of it makes sense. I can’t imagine the pain that the Rhoden, Manley, and Gilley families endured today. Heartbreaking.
I second this! It was a busy day and away from the computer. Appreciated being able to read such great summaries. Thanks to everyone!
 
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