OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue - 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested #80

[Betty P]

I think JW has probably lied a lot.

Yes. So has everyone in his family. It's what makes this crime and trials unique and difficult. They were a family of habitual criminals. Lying is something they're all good at, its like second nature to them because its women into their daily lives and personalities. There isn't an honest one in the bunch, which makes it difficult to tell when they're lying or telling the truth.

 

[rsd1200]

But if George has told his attorneys the truth, why does George's story keep changing?

I'll admit I do not understand how proffers work in terms of a witness at trial.

So here is as much as I understand. Jake's Proffer was about 12 hours long.
Does the prosecution just say to him - tell us the story of what happened and just keep taping until he stops talking?
Can they ask him to respond to certain questions? During the recording of the proffer can they confront him with evidence so that he has the opportunity to change his story/proffer?

I'd appreciate anyone with legal expertiece weighing in, so that we all better understand the legal process of a proffer.

Thanks, JMO

They are out to disprove the prosecution's case. If they had only info that GW4 was there, and that came from JW, who was going to testify to this, then they had to plan their case around that. if the info changes and they discover the prosecution's star witness who actually had claimed to murder all eight people, after praying about a sign, then that's a whole different ballgame (just my way of viewing it).

 

[rsd1200]

Did the defense receive JW's initial confession of murdering all eight? Was it only told to his attorneys? When did he change his mind that he murdered only five and shot one? If lights were on in DR's home, and doors were closed, how did DR see him? How did HMR see him? Did a proffer offer change it for him? How did he not see that he'd shot her when he got close??

I've a lot of questions and I do not think that JW is an honest man who has done the just and honorable thing for his daughter. I think he could shoot, I think he didn't like to hunt, he had a beef with the Rs, his dad did as well, so hey, Daddy, let's take out some humans. If they hadn't caught him, I honestly believe he'd have a college freshman helping him move a couch into a van, while he was wearing a fake cast on his arm. I have not felt this way about a defendant in a long time (Bundy comes to mind of course) b/c I believe that he did this w/o any mental impairment from drugs or alcohol. I have a nervous laugh but good God. Gagging, laughing, etc...and mouthing I'm Sorry while he thought no one was looking? Ugh. A Lie. He basically said he felt no remorse when asked by his father. He sure didn't look remorseful or anxious in any of those FB pics just days after. He went to the hospital to get baby K. He knew that was not his child.

The recounting of HMR, DR, and CR1's murders. The man does not know how to tell the truth. He does not care. He's the most dangerous of them all imo. The others may be what they were, but I firmly believe that JW had the potential to continue. I don't think it bothered him at all. Yeah, they all accepted a role at a family table meeting, at some point but JW, imo, is the most dangerous.

Arrives at Home of DR/CR/HMR

 

[Pru2U]

I think JW has probably lied a lot.

About what, specifically? I posted a list I started of discrepancies in JW testimony if you wouldn’t mind adding to it, please? And TIA.

 

[StrangeOne]

What would Jake's motive be to lie about how they got into Frankie and HHG's?

Here's the link in case anyone else had questions about it.

Starts just before they arrived at CRs house.

Oops:

Parker says you laid in the back of the truck for 20 minutes or longer to get to
Union Hill and you didn't stop on the way and Jake says we did stop and so Eric said everybody in the
courtroom kind of set up and he said that Billy stopped the truck and told Jake if you want to back out now is the
time to do it he pulled off in a little just a little area like a pull-off area

Jake said he didn't want to back out let's do this and Jake said the total time he was in the truck from when they
left Peterson to when he got out at Chris seniors to get under the truck to shoot him was about an hour
once he got out Jake said he rolled from one truck to another truck before he shot Chris senior
he was under a silver truck that was in the driveway and he was in the rear tire
area and he says that he shot Chris while he was standing in his door

after he shot Chris senior he gave the SKS back to George and immediately started picking up the casings
and that's around the time Billy comes out freaking out

Parker said your dad was inside when inside when you fired
the SKS and you you could have hit him.

apparently Jake starts kind of laughing
and Parker's like why are you smiling and Jake said he smiles in the worst situations

and you know uh he said
between firing the SKS and going inside Chris senior's house was about a minute or two and
he asked Jake when did you hear the shots in the house after you took the
shot at Chris senior and he said it was pretty much immediately after he stopped shooting he said it took a minute or two to calm Billy down

Edit: I personally don't buy it.

I don't either. They planned this murder together down to the last detail right? I just think they would have talked about getting caught and what they would do if they did. Maybe I'm giving these people more credit than they deserve. I just don't think JW is being honest about a lot of things
I think his brother's role is being down played in the very least

 

[rsd1200]

But what possible motive would Jake have had to lie about how he entered FR and HHG's?

Does it matter if he entered through a window or walked through an unlocked door? Jake then went on to murder FR and HHG. He admits as such.

JMO

It really doesn't matter at the end of the day. He did say they went there first and the dogs were barking so they left. They came back and the dogs started up again and they tried doors and windows, one he'd climbed through, when DR, HR, CR, and S had lived there. He then said he found one that was already open after breaking a hunting knife tip. I guess it was his Zombie Hunting knife b/c that's not what I'd call a true hunting knife. I didn't see a broken tip though

 

[rsd1200]

I don't either. They planned this murder together down to the last detail right? I just think they would have talked about getting caught and what they would do if they did. Maybe I'm giving these people more credit than they deserve. I just don't think JW is being honest about a lot of things
I think his brother's role is being down played in the very least

Does JW want to have the highest body count, but make sure the charges are shared? I don't think he cares that they get LWOP, but maybe cares enough to save his own hide, and his family's b/c, they're family. He is quite full of himself.

 

[LMDlong]

It says it was filed in / from Court of Common Pleas Pike County, and the case lookup on the site lists these as the latest entries (same names) the document is just not accessible AFAIK from their website at

https://cpcourt.pikecounty.oh.gov/eservices/searchresults.page?x=4M64FYvi57YIUtETreI4-WXOnGvPfu7QVd-Sla8Cr6-UlfeTvywABcpn81C1xkOn4kMbW8Ktcvtvc2p0JnT1xQ#

Do you think he will opt out?

 

[LMDlong]

I was just reviewing autopsies and

I was reviewing the autopsies again and I just wonder if Jake is looking for bullets, how does he know which victim Billy shot 2 times? Maybe he shot them each another time to make sure they were dead. HHG was shot a lot of times. I wish there were photos with trajectory rods so we could see angles and maybe that would show where they were standing and it very well could show 2 people or at least a single person standing in 2 different places when various shots were fired. Maybe they did show that and I missed it.

The drawing images shown on the monitors by the ME might help you .

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I thought about that too. But, the proffer said GW was to protect Jake from BW.

Thanks for responding! Do we have that in writing from the court? Did AC say that in some hearing or in opening statement? When we say "proffer," we don't actually have that in hand. We just have what people SAY about it.

 

[LMDlong]

I thought about that too. But, the proffer said GW was to protect Jake from BW.

They are murders and a tight controlling family. Brothers watch out for brothers.

 

[Chingaling]

I misspoke, it was the Fulton Co Jailer. Parnell. I think he went Federal. He got convicted on fraud but he was a cruel man.

ok thankas

 

[rsd1200]

About what, specifically? I posted a list I started of discrepancies in JW testimony if you wouldn’t mind adding to it, please? And TIA.

I think I've addressed my thoughts in my comments along the way. Add to them if you'd like. No snark intended, and I'll not go into it on a public forum, but I'm barely keeping up. I can bow out if others would like or if I'm being annoying or a distraction.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Beth said that George would go with Chris N while "scrapping" whatever that is. But she said George would complain Chris was cheating him out of money when the items were sold or work done. I think that is what put the rift between Chris and George a month ago.

JMO

Scrapping is basically "junking". I suppose it could be fighting, but since it involved $$$, I say junking scrap metal. Big $$$ in convertors which thieves cut right off of vehicles.

 

[Pru2U]

I think I've addressed my thoughts in my comments along the way. Add to them if you'd like. No snark intended, and I'll not go into it on a public forum, but I'm barely keeping up. I can bow out if others would like or if I'm being annoying or a distraction.

No, I’m sincerely trying to pin down the discrepancies. If you could add, I would appreciate it. I’m looking specifically for discrepancies in testimony/evidence presented thus far (but not AC opening statements and not general “feelings”)
I do believe JW is lying about something but not about GW. I need to see if what I “think I see” adds up first. I’ll explain more tomorrow when I see what you or anyone else adds. Thank you!

 

[Pru2U]

Scrapping is basically "junking". I suppose it could be fighting, but since it involved $$$, I say junking scrap metal. Big $$$ in convertors which thieves cut right off of vehicles.

And copper tubing from HVAC units, etc. Copper is a high theft item. Wonder if GW had company on his late night escapades (aside from yucky women). Like maybe his uncle Chris? Maybe, maybe not. Randa said Chris was more of a watcher than a doer, HA! (Couldn’t believe she said that out loud - on the stand! BAH!)
JMO

 

[Minordav]

JMO I think he is a psychopath.

I know he is. He is a serial killer. His trophy was that Boondock Saints clip. That is why he showed so much pleasure by laughing when AC showed it in court. He would have gone on to kill many more women had he not been caught. Beth was lucky to get out alive.

JMo

I was in the courtroom when AC asked JW about the Boondocks Clip. His answer was he didnt remember the clip that she was referring to. She showed the clip from a google search that the prosecutors googled. He didnt laugh. In fact he said that the clip that they showed wasn’t the exact clip he watched. He laughed after the state asked him if he could say what guns where in the clip. He smiled and said yes gold plated 1911s.. but he only smiled because he knew the answer. Other times in his testimony he actually asked the state if his answer was right.

 

[Pru2U]

Thanks for responding! Do we have that in writing from the court? Did AC say that in some hearing or in opening statement? When we say "proffer," we don't actually have that in hand. We just have what people SAY about it.

This is what I know we have for sure:

From Angenette tweet yesterday

“Jake also said his mother and brother tried to talk him out of the murders and that his mother lied to cover for him. He said he also told prosecutors in his proffer that George went along to protect him”

Tweet Copy & pasted to this thread, page 26, #514

 

[Pru2U]

I was in the courtroom when AC asked JW about the Boondocks Clip. His answer was he didnt remember the clip that she was referring to. She showed the clip from a google search that the prosecutors googled. He didnt laugh. In fact he said that the clip that they showed wasn’t the exact clip he watched. He laughed after the state asked him if he could say what guns where in the clip. He smiled and said yes gold plated 1911s.. but he only smiled because he knew the answer. Other times in his testimony he actually asked the state if his answer was right.

Good stuff! Thank you for sharing.

 

[rsd1200]

I don't doubt you, but how would defense attorneys have suddenly realized this after opening statements?

JMO

That's what I'd like to know.