OH Pike County: 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered Over Custody Issue 4 Members Wagner Family Arrested#38

[rsd1200]

Upchurch (musician) - Wikipedia

So he is a singer and loves cars. Where did they meet him, a derby?

At his concert. There's a photo on his FB page, of HMR and CH standing beside him. It's dated the day after the murders but it was a few weeks prior. He's a comedian / musician. He travels all over, and likely got the dates confused. His second post, which I just became aware of, was this past November, when they arrested the Ws. So he definitely remembered them.

His FB link. Go to his photos.

Upchurch

 

[Dudly]

State of Ohio to help with trial costs
Pike County Murders: Ohio lawmakers OK $100K to help cover costs

 

[evelezrn]

If the jury finds them guilty and sentences them to death, then so be it, if they sentence them to LWOP, I'm good with that (even better really). I'd hang myself in my cell if they sentenced me to LWOP. At any rate, if they are found guilty, of these murders, they should never walk the earth as free men, or woman, ever again.

Same. I am ok with DP or LWOP for W's.
But I personally would hang myself in my cell if I was sentenced to LWOP. It seems weird but I couldn't stand being in a cage (guity or innocent) of whatever crime I was convicted of til my natural death .

 

[Betty P]

BBM

The post he made after the murders shows they were at his March 5th, 2016 concert. I don’t have time to search it but it is on Upchurch’s fb. Here’s the photo HMR posted on 3/27/16 with Upchurch on the right.

Hanna May Rhoden

Ok there is no way this picture of Hanna was taken March 5, 2016. She was pregnant with little KR at that time. That would have been a little over a month before she gave birth. In this picture she has a flat stomach. In the pictures of her at the baby shower less than a month later her stomach is huge. No way she grew that much in a month. She posted it on March 27, 2016 but there is no way it was taken on March 5 2016.

JMO

JMO, this kind of thing often happens after a major murder or disaster of some sort. After 911, many people reported they were supposed to be on one of the doomed airline flights, but changed reservations, etc. at the last minute. There have been dozens of people over the years who reported they were supposed to be at a party at Sharon Tate's home the night of the Manson murders.

For this reason, I wrote off some of the reports from Rhoden/Gilley friends and family who reported they were supposed to be with the victims the night of the murders, but changed their minds or had something else come up. I know some speculated that it made them suspects, but I never felt that to be the case. It's just a reaction some people have after a major tragedy takes place.

The timeline and details for this person's concert don't add up. Perhaps they just got mixed up about the time, or something.

ETA: Good catch on noticing the state of HMR's pregnancy in the photo. Her stomach looks pretty flat there.

 

[Trudie]

Not that it means anything, I believe some print articles allude to GW3 as the “group leader”. Any of you ever notice this? I’ve exhausted all my free reads for my lifetime, so I can’t go back to find them.

Also, IMO, FW seems to favor JW, according to a few print articles, she expresses JW’s innocence during a couple of interviews.

 

[Betty P]

State of Ohio to help with trial costs
Pike County Murders: Ohio lawmakers OK $100K to help cover costs

$100K won't go very far with this case. Each of the W defendants facing the DP has two attorneys assigned to them. The hearings, preparation and trials will take at least a year or two. That's only $25,000 per defendant. What's the point in the Ohio GA approving such a small amount? Maybe they're going to find more money in some other department budget?

The costs will no doubt increase as prosecution moves forward. Even if just one of the Wagners were convicted and sentenced to the death penalty, that alone would likely cost the state government millions each year.

A 2014 Dayton Daily News investigation found virtually everything connected to the death penalty carries a high price tag.

Ohio’s death penalty costs close to $17 million annually, though that sum is actually just a fraction of the true cost. County prosecutors, the courts and the state prison system do not specifically track expenses associated with death penalty cases in Ohio, which would add millions in expenses.

ETA: Recent estimate shows the average cost of prosecuting a death penalty case in Ohio is $3 million.

IMAGE - The Cost of Ohio's Death Penalty

As info: Ohio has a biennial budget system, meaning it draws up and approves state spending budgets every 2 years, so this isn't part of the budget bill.

Here's a link to the bill

House Bill 500 - Documents | The Ohio Legislature

Some wording in the bill on Page 75

PIKE COUNTY CAPITAL CASE

The foregoing appropriation item 055505, Pike County Capital Case, shall be used to defray the cost of ongoing capital case litigation in Pike County.

So, JMO, it looks like they're taking the funds from an existing part of the budget that was previously budgeted for some other type of expenditures.

 

[Trudie]

Same. I am ok with DP or LWOP for W's.
But I personally would hang myself in my cell if I was sentenced to LWOP. It seems weird but I couldn't stand being in a cage (guity or innocent) of whatever crime I was convicted of til my natural death .

I think the thought of being caged is what many of us find so intriguing by some of the crimes we follow. Ultimately, in most cases, the perp’ doesn’t end up with what he killed for. Scott/Amber, CW/NK, hundreds more. Of course we can assume the Ws will never have custody of SW.

For most, the thought of LWOP is a deterrent to crimes.

I’ve considered G3 & perhaps AW have a sense of entitlement. Not because of any of their accomplishments rather those of FW and her husband. I envision him slinging their names around in the course of his life.

But, really, who is a person that is no one other than someone’s offspring? No one.

There is something that makes murderers NOT consider the after-fact of their actions. Do they become so hell bent on their schemes their brains go no further than executing their plans? If I’m driving 15 mph over the limit, I think “omg, I’m gonna get a ticket”, and slow down. I don’t think “I’m gonna go 50 over the limit and out run the law”, because I know I will go to jail.

In any case, prisons are to capacity with people that’d like a “Do Over”.

We hear of murders and suicides on the inside, but they are quite minimal, considering the number of incarcerated individuals. So, the incarcerated go on, adapting to their situation. They have no choice, it’s either live or die.

IMO, JW and his brother will have a hard time in prison.
AW, I think, will adjust easily, maybe become a “mom figure” to other women. This is what I think if they are in fact convicted.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think they all had their reasons and motives.

But my intuition tells me that AW & FW were the brains behind the plan.

It was carefully planned


It was carried out with military precision


Mistakes were made, and some stupid ones

1. If in fact blood evidence was found in the Waggies truck they sold, that’s just plain stupid. I would have reported it stolen, bleached the heck out of it and burned it ina Ditch

If LE found a suppressor or parts of one that’s dumb as well. Every atom of any evidence should have been burned shredded and thrown in the Ohio River.

If LE has video or audio evidence then that’s stupid too. You just don’t talk. To anyone. Except maybe to your dog. On an island alone in the South Pacific. With one palm tree and you can see no boats in any direction.


If LE has them on video at Walmart buying cheap shoes in their own size then that’s dumb. Everybody knows Walmart videos everything because they don’t even trust their employees. They would have been better off buying old shoes at garage sales two sizes to big for their feet.






LE caught those mistakes and followed the evidence.

My guess is the guns wound up 1,000 miles away in water and disposed of as properly as any criminal should have done.

The rest, clothing, scraps of plans, conversations who knows maybe it went into a pile of compost at the Flying Waggie farms.
Besides the visiciousness of the murders themselves, the entire plan to kill 8 people over custody has to be the most outrageous idiotic murder episode I have ever known. Yes anyone of us could have planned it better. I think the Waggies downfall was and is the after coverup. And the stupidity of the entire motive.

They could have gone to court and taken a chance on custody legally. A nice cash offer from FW to get custody MIGHT HAVE DONE IT.

maybe they honestly thought no one would notice.. the whole Cartel rub out sounded a bit more palatable than this craziness.

Didn’t they think that people knew about the baby? It was all over HR and the families and friends social media.

Parts of the plan are sophisticated and it appears parts carried out by Barbie and GI JOE. throw in Gomer Pyle and Barney Fife and you’ve got the actors for the docudrama due out any moment.

( I’m not criticizing any law enforcement here, I just needed the names for inappropriate humor, or as evidence that things were not adequately thought through).

LAW ENFORCEMENT FID A SPECTACULAR JOB.


And it took 2.5 years to fit all the pieces together.

But LE GOT EM

and I’m convinced they have them with
99.9999999999 % certainty

When the evidence is discovered in court we will see and understand.

 

[Trudie]

Betty, iirc, JW has pretrial next week. Do you think his legal eagles want to move quickly? One legal team is going to try to throw the other 3 under the bus. Despite AW/G3 Telling the kids what to do/say in the event of an arrest, will they follow suit, now separated? Or, will they pass the blame? Plus, each attorney will want to “win” his case, for his own statistics. Not because they give a crap about their client.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I think the thought of being caged is what many of us find so intriguing by some of the crimes we follow. Ultimately, in most cases, the perp’ doesn’t end up with what he killed for. Scott/Amber, CW/NK, hundreds more. Of course we can assume the Ws will never have custody of SW.

For most, the thought of LWOP is a deterrent to crimes.

I’ve considered G3 & perhaps AW have a sense of entitlement. Not because of any of their accomplishments rather those of FW and her husband. I envision him slinging their names around in the course of his life.

But, really, who is a person that is no one other than someone’s offspring? No one.

There is something that makes murderers NOT consider the after-fact of their actions. Do they become so hell bent on their schemes their brains go no further than executing their plans? If I’m driving 15 mph over the limit, I think “omg, I’m gonna get a ticket”, and slow down. I don’t think “I’m gonna go 50 over the limit and out run the law”, because I know I will go to jail.

In any case, prisons are to capacity with people that’d like a “Do Over”.

We hear of murders and suicides on the inside, but they are quite minimal, considering the number of incarcerated individuals. So, the incarcerated go on, adapting to their situation. They have no choice, it’s either live or die.

IMO, JW and his brother will have a hard time in prison.
AW, I think, will adjust easily, maybe become a “mom figure” to other women. This is what I think if they are in fact convicted.

I agree with just about every word you wrote. I’m not going to disagree with anything because you said it well. Thank you.

Keep analyzing and most importantly do carry on!!

 

[Chelly]

Initials list:

Victims:
CR1/CRSR-Christopher Rhoden Sr
DR- Dana Rhoden
FR- (Clarence)Frankie Rhoden-father of B & R
HMR-Hanna May Rhoden-mother of S & K
CR2/CRJR- Christopher Rhoden Jr.
HHG-Hannah Hazel Gilley-fiancée to FR, mother of R
GR-Gary Rhoden
KR-Kenny Rhoden, father to KR2

Defendants:
GW3/G3 also referred to as BW- George “Billy” Wagner III -husband to AW, father to GW4 & JW, grandfather to S

AW- Angela Wagner, wife to GW3, mother to GW4 & JW, grandmother to S

GW4 - George Wagner IV aka young George, son of GW3 & AW, sibling of JW, has a minor child with first initial B

JW- (Edward) Jake Wagner-son of GW3 & AW, sibling of GW4, ex to HMR and father of her minor child S

FW-Fredericka Wagner, mother to GW3, grandmother to GW4 & JW, deceased spouse is GWjr

RN- Rita Newcomb, mother to AW, grandmother to GW4 & JW

RAW- GW3 & RW’s brother, FW’s son
RW- GW3 & RAW’s sister, FW’s daughter. She has been present at all W arraignments and was with GW3 when he was arrested.

Other Initials:
CG- father of K, HMR’s newborn, also HHG’s brother
MG-sister to CG & HHG
CH-HMR’s current boyfriend at the time of the murders
KR2- KR’s daughter
DS-Donald Stone - found KR
BJM- Bobby Jo Manley-Dana’s sister who found CR1, GR, FR, HHG
JM- James Manley - Dana’s brother who found DR
LM- DR, BJM, & JM’s father
CRob-FR’s ex & mother to his oldest son B

All of the above initials have been named in the media over the last 2 1/2 years (besides RAW & RW). There are other initials I won’t list for now, but if they pop up, we can clarify who they are.

This list is a keeper for any serious follower of this case. I've a copy of it and even though I've followed the murders since day-one, I still need to refer to it at times.

 

[Trudie]

Charlie, I wondered if FW offered HR 25k and the right to weekly visitation (when in town) if she might have accepted. Not much money to working adults but to a young mom, it’s a windfall.

It will always escape me why the W’s felt they could offer a child anything.

 

[Trudie]

This list is a keeper for any serious follower of this case. I've a copy of it and even though I've followed the murders since day-one, I still need to refer to it at times.

I’m the worst for confusing names & initials. Sorry. In advance.

 

[Dudly]

This is interesting at this time especially... Could this be a ploy to get the Ws off on a technicality?
Court docs: Pike County sheriff accused of ‘misconduct’

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Betty, iirc, JW has pretrial next week. Do you think his legal eagles want to move quickly? One legal team is going to try to throw the other 3 under the bus. Despite AW/G3 Telling the kids what to do/say in the event of an arrest, will they follow suit, now separated? Or, will they pass the blame? Plus, each attorney will want to “win” his case, for his own statistics. Not because they give a crap about their client.

They can’t do much because to the best of my knowledge no discovery has been exchanged. The Defense might have some info, but that would change the second discovery is delivered to attorneys.

That moment is when the Waggies will figure out the difference between a Harvard and a mail order law degree. Or perhaps Walmart offers something through their electronics dept. other than video that is.

 

[MittenScarpetta]

Court docs: Pike County sheriff accused of ‘misconduct’

 

[Charliegizmo49]

This is interesting at this time especially...
Court docs: Pike County sheriff accused of ‘misconduct’

This is the first of many accusations that will be filed and made against everyone.

I doubt it has anything to do with the murders. IIRC there was something about a social media post during a meth bust.


It sounds like the work of a lawyer who can’t win a case and is trying to get charges tossed on issues totally unrelated to his clients guilt or innocence. There will probably be more.
Sadly perhaps many more.

 

[Trudie]

Do any of you think the 4 had a plan for G3 to take the rap, should they ever be arrested?

Also, we’ve all seen this.......parents attempt to raise boys to be “Billy bad butts”. I think this is the case here. If truth be known, w/o mom & dad at their sides, I bet both boys are scared crapless. If they have the IQ to understand the severity of their situations. I’m uncertain to their education level. Only because I have a vision I can’t shake, of what “home schooling” involved, in their home. Are the boys lying on their bunks thinking grandma F will rescue them? Idk

 

[Chelly]

This is interesting at this time especially... Could this be a ploy to get the Ws off on a technicality?
Court docs: Pike County sheriff accused of ‘misconduct’

Hummmm.....

 

[IQuestion]

Betty, iirc, JW has pretrial next week. Do you think his legal eagles want to move quickly? One legal team is going to try to throw the other 3 under the bus. Despite AW/G3 Telling the kids what to do/say in the event of an arrest, will they follow suit, now separated? Or, will they pass the blame? Plus, each attorney will want to “win” his case, for his own statistics. Not because they give a crap about their client.

bbm, TRUDIE (you just surprise me so often with your thoughts.) Gallows humor isn't it? DP attorneys representing defendants always judge their success by "the number disgusting criminals they have arranged to be housed for the rest of their miserable lives" at the expense of tax payers. I wonder how many DP attorneys can actually say they got their client declared innocent?
This is a difficult topic (as a mother & wife) but was just wondering about the process and noticing all the "annointed/appointed DP's" are males, who all look alike.... Ok, I'll just quietly back out of the room, now...cause all my marbles just rolled out on the floor.
Hypothetical ad: Hire me if you are facing the DP because 8 out of 10 murderers are happy with my results.