OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #23

[RAISINISBACK]

The dogs, so many dogs and chickens? Did they have fighting roosters? I wonder if any of the family had been reported for cruelty to animals.

My dogs bark at my grandsons who visits all the time. One grandson even stayed with me for a few months. Even though he lived here my dogs still barked at him every single time he came in the door until they saw who it was. If they are outside they bark until they see them then start yapping. If they are inside they run to the door and bark jumping up on the door trying to get out. My dogs are no different than any other dog. There is no way a stranger walked up to the door at those houses without the dogs barking. And in KR's case his dog was inside with him. That dog would most certainly barked and ran to the door until he saw who it was. And one last thing. According to DS and whoever went with him that dog was still inside the fifth wheel with KR. DS stated he had to get hold of the dog so LE could enter the trailer. No stranger went up there and opened a locked door even with a key and shot KR without 1. waking up KR and 2. getting bitten and 3. letting the dog outside. My money is on someone being inside that fifth wheel before KR went to sleep. Someone who stayed the night with him.

 

[sumzero]

I would agree with you but LE has repeatedly said that some family members know more than they are telling LE. Sheriff Reader even stated during a family gathering at the Union Hill church just hours after the discoveries of the bodies that "Someone in this church knows why these people were killed". That is pretty clear cut that he suspects family involvement.

My opinion is there has to be family involvement. Most of these people were killed while sleeping in their beds. No way did any stranger get past those dogs and know where the security cameras were. Even if the family just told someone, that someone still had to get past the dogs without waking anyone up. Someone in the family had to be with them. It had to be someone those dogs knew really well, someone who had a key, and even then the dogs would have barked at least until they knew who it was.

Or someone was staying the night in those homes and controlled the dogs and opened the doors to the killers.

The statement Reader made to the 150 relatives gathered at the church, as I interpret it, means he thought someone was withholding information. Out of fear, maybe, or not wanting to speak ill of the dead. Or they may not be real trusting of law enforcement -- who knows? Reader probably figured someone was close enough to the victims to know who or what might have led to trouble.

As for the people who didn't spend the night as planned, it's a good bet the detectives checked out their stories to see if anyone was lying. Phone records, text messages, eyewitnesses -- whatever. I imagine the detectives turned over every stone to determine everyone's whereabouts that night.

And the dogs. Others have commented that the barking of dogs, if it happens often enough, can be tuned out. Others have suggested that the dogs maybe were not as intimidating as we might think. It sure seems like these murders were carefully planned. I have to think the killers had a plan to deal with the dogs.

Is it possible a family member was involved? Sure. But I haven't heard anyone suggest a credible motive to explain such a vicious and methodical slaughter of eight relatives, including the young mothers. If such a motive existed, it'd have to be a doozy, and surely other people would've known or thought of it by now.

 

[glf]

I remember Charlie making that statement to the effect that somebody there knew who the killers were or knew more than they were letting on. But he could have been hoping that he could call somebody's bluff, and obviously it didn't work, or nobody has nothing to hide.
Where Kenny is concerned, maybe somebody came thru a window. I don't remember what size or type of windows it had. There's just too many scenarios to even second guess. And the eye shot he rec'd could have just been pure luck, and not good marksmanship. This entire case is just mind blowing on every level. I really wish I had some solid answer to fit with even one of the scenarios, but I don't!
This was so cold and heartless, especially for the four babies who lost parents for God only knows what reason. I know I 'll never understand. But I agree with Gary's dad, somebody should take all of those responsible and torture them.

 

[rsd1200]

One of the hinky things I have been thinking about today is KR. He has never fit for me, not the why or the how. He was in a locked fifth wheel with a pit bull inside. Yet he was shot in his sleep.

We had an 5.0 earthquake last night and I was upstairs while hubby was downstairs. Our house is usually very quiet as we don't always have a TV on and did not last night. While the upstairs was shaking, downstairs it just sounded like a light gust of wind hitting the side of the house. My dogs were downstairs and even though it was a very slight sound they went crazy barking and running from door to door.

My thought is this, how did someone even if they were quiet, even if they had a key, get into that fifth wheel without the dog waking KR up? It just does not make sense to me. Dogs outside bark, that's true, but the walls somewhat muffle the sound. Dogs inside are usually running to the door jumping and barking. In that small a space KR would have awakened. I just can't get around that.

DS was supposed to stay the night with KS but says he didn't. Kendra R was supposed to stay the night with HR but says she didn't. Meranda G was supposed to stay the night with HG but says she didn't. The only one we know of that was not supposed to have someone stay the night was CR1 and GR. Yet they are the ones who apparently woke up and fought with the killers.

According to BJM the dogs were outside when she arrived and she remarked on that because they were always inside before. That makes it look like someone came up to the outside of the trailer and the dogs heard them. Being dogs they would have barked and ran to the door probably waking both GR and CR1 in the process. I think one of them opened the door to look out and that's when the dogs ran out.

It doesn't strike me that the Rhodens were particularly trusting people. Indeed living out in a rural area away from town I would say they were even more vigilant. That's why they had 15 dogs I would think, so no one could sneak up on their trailers. Being this is the US and these people had no felonies I am assuming they probably had a lot of guns and even though FR and DR may not have had those guns down within reach of kids it is almost certain CR1 and GR and KR did. So how did someone get in the trailers to kill these people in their sleep?

My point is this, what if DS, KR, and MG are lying about staying the night? What if they were there and controlled the dogs, unlocked the door ect? Or that someone else was staying the night in those three trailers? That would make everything fit. It would answer why no one but CR1 and GR woke up.

These murders are truly the most mystifying I have ever seen.

The large number of dogs at CR1s were coonhounds. They had the two pits inside, I'd guess, as more of a deterrent. Most pits do not bark if they are getting ready to go after something. They're normally silent attackers. They can be rather boisterous, bouncy dogs, if happy and excited to see someone, but not much on barking, howling, etc... Coonhounds will bark to the point that it becomes white noise.

My two poodle mixes bark if a grasshopper lights in the yard. The shepherd is barking at the wind right now. The Rottie is silent. She's silent, and she takes in the situation before she approaches people. If it's dark, she'll come up behind them and they never know she's there (and she's a very large dog). Different dogs/and breeds react differently.

I think KR knew his killer and let them inside or they were already inside, murdered him, and left. I wonder what time DS left KR's trailer? Whoever did this knew when DS left or DS would have been dead. They also would have had to know that KR left for work by 4:30 a.m. every morning (unless they knew in advance that KR was taking off on Friday to hang with DS and work on cars.)

 

[rsd1200]

I was just thinking. There were also two dogs at DR's iirc. The only home that did not have an indoor dog was FR's (I think the coonhounds were his though.).

 

[pearl]

I still think KR's murder was one of opportunity in that whoever killed him knew about the other murders and used the opportunity to rob and kill him thinking his death would be included with the larger crime. I think if anyone ever figures out the situation with the dogs, it will go a long way towards our understanding of this crime. I live in a rural area and many people have pitt bulls. All of these dogs are kept in kennels or inside the house. Some of these dogs are massive but gentle as lambs. Others are aggressive. The old nature versus nurture argument aside, all these dogs have the potential of becoming violent. All dogs have the potential to become violent. I just cannot understand how a dog that is witnessing the murder of its owner, either by seeing or hearing, would not go ballistic. My tiny four-and-a-half pound Chihuahua is feisty, very protective, and extremely LOUD. She will bark continuously if she hears a blade of grass grow a millimeter in the yard. Our golden retrievers, on the other hand, never show an interest in anyone that comes on our property. So long story short, what about the Rhoden's dogs?

 

[evelezrn]

I was just thinking. There were also two dogs at DR's iirc. The only home that did not have an indoor dog was FR's (I think the coonhounds were his though.).

IMO your earlier post about dog breeds acting differently is spot on. Yes I've had Rotties and Pitts and they are silent attackers. They don't want to warn you with a bark first.

 

[Bootsctr]

And none of the dogs were shot? Killer sparing the children does not necessarily make me think a relative is the perpetrator, or a woman.

 

[Flatbush]

My opinion with KR. He lived in a camper with his pitt. He was shot in his bed, dog present. My thinking for the shooter to get to KR in bed, with the dog not alerting him, stands to reason the shooter was well known and trusted by this dog. Am interested in others thoughts, as I am not familiar with pitts.

 

[pearl]

I remember way back when Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman were murdered. She had an akita, a really loyal breed of dog. The dog had walked all through the crime scene before the scene was discovered. I remember there being speculation that the akita might recognize and react to the killer if the dog came into contact with the killer again. I wonder if animals can recognize things like this murderer. I know if a person abuses a dog, the animal may become aggressive to that person. We had a golden retriever as a rescue dog that had been abused by its first owner who was a guard at a prison and wore a dark blue uniform. Every time that dog saw a man in a dark uniform, he got nervous and growled at the person.

 

[rsd1200]

I remember way back when Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman were murdered. She had an akita, a really loyal breed of dog. The dog had walked all through the crime scene before the scene was discovered. I remember there being speculation that the akita might recognize and react to the killer if the dog came into contact with the killer again. I wonder if animals can recognize things like this murderer. I know if a person abuses a dog, the animal may become aggressive to that person. We had a golden retriever as a rescue dog that had been abused by its first owner who was a guard at a prison and wore a dark blue uniform. Every time that dog saw a man in a dark uniform, he got nervous and growled at the person.

.
If my dog felt that I was being threatened (the Rott or possibly the Shepherd) as in being physically attacked, I feel that they'd become aggressive. I've not raised any of my dogs to be aggressive though. However, if something comes into this yard, at night, it usually doesn't make it out (I'm talking wild animal). The Rottie, especially, is territorial, and extremely loyal. My other was the same. I've never had Pitts but the ones I've been around don't really need to be provoked to go on attack. They can be fairly unpredictable. I've had some unpleasant experiences with them. I don't know that a dog could connect someone shooting a gun, and then their owner is deceased, now they hate that person. I'd think they may connect gunfire to their owner not moving anymore. Now, a physical altercation, that left their owner deceased, I think they could connect that.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

IMO your earlier post about dog breeds acting differently is spot on. Yes I've had Rotties and Pitts and they are silent attackers. They don't want to warn you with a bark first.

I am really scared of the pitt bulls. I have never seen one that does not look like it wants to bite me. My thought is this. The pitts may be silent attackers true, but if it was a stranger that opened that door wouldn't said stranger have a huge hunk of flesh out of his arm or leg? If anyone owns a pitt I would love to hear what they think the chances are that pitt bull bit the killers if they are strangers. ( I know this sounds a bit sarcastic but I don't mean it to be. I would genuinely like to know your thoughts in relation to your own dog on the chances the pitt bit a stranger.) Another thing. If the dog bit the killers can they get DNA from the dogs mouth/teeth?

 

[rsd1200]

I am really scared of the pitt bulls. I have never seen one that does not look like it wants to bite me. My thought is this. The pitts may be silent attackers true, but if it was a stranger that opened that door wouldn't said stranger have a huge hunk of flesh out of his arm or leg? If anyone owns a pitt I would love to hear what they think the chances are that pitt bull bit the killers if they are strangers. ( I know this sounds a bit sarcastic but I don't mean it to be. I would genuinely like to know your thoughts in relation to your own dog on the chances the pitt bit a stranger.) Another thing. If the dog bit the killers can they get DNA from the dogs mouth/teeth?

BBM
If a pitt bit someone, that someone would have some serious wounds, and they'd most likely have found blood on the muzzle of the dog(s). Most of the time in a pitt attack, they are in for the duration. The person who is bitten loses a lot of flesh. I don't think anyone was bitten. They knew those dogs or had experience with dogs. Some folks who know us, won't get out of the car with my Rottie out, others who don't, have gotten out and I'll see them sitting in the drive playing with her. (The Rottie weighs over 100 pounds, and is quite a daunting figure.) I don't blame you for being wary of pitts. I am a dog person and have had many dogs in my lifetime. Pitts are very different.

 

[DexterG]

BBM
If a pitt bit someone, that someone would have some serious wounds, and they'd most likely have found blood on the muzzle of the dog(s). Most of the time in a pitt attack, they are in for the duration. The person who is bitten loses a lot of flesh. I don't think anyone was bitten. They knew those dogs or had experience with dogs. Some folks who know us, won't get out of the car with my Rottie out, others who don't, have gotten out and I'll see them sitting in the drive playing with her. (The Rottie weighs over 100 pounds, and is quite a daunting figure.) I don't blame you for being wary of pitts. I am a dog person and have had many dogs in my lifetime. Pitts are very different.

Most pit bull type dogs are big babies when they are in a loving environment. Unfortunately they are a favorite among people who abuse and neglect them. Any dog can be dangerous just like any person can.
I do wonder how they were able to not disturb the dog. Even if the dog recognized the person it would respond with tail wagging or excitement.


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[glf]

All the talk about the dogs, really brings more questions! My 36 year old son was walking to his brother's house, and walked by some friend's house on the way. They have a Lab-German Shepherd mix. He said he had been around the dog on many occasions, inside the house, and the dog was gentle and affectionate.
The dog was in the yard, and rushed at him, and he put up his arm to protect his face. The dog bit the inside of his forearm. He said he felt the teeth go in all the way to the bone. He ended up with four stitches. He also said three other people he knows, and two he doesn't know have been bitten by this dog. He reluctantly pressed chgs, nobody else has. He feels like this dog will continue to attack people if somebody doesn't report this.
He said he wants them to be responsible for his Dr. visit, and be made to keep the dog in the house, or in a fenced yard. He said he knew that dog was going for his face. He said he hit the dog twice, and he didn't let go, then poked him in the eye, and got another less serious bite on his leg.

 

[amauet1]

You all have raised some very good questions! From the get-go this case has been so frustrating because of the "lack" of factual information. Look, we have been told certain things and then again they have changed over the last 6 months.
First we had a large commercial pot operation in 3-4 locations. Now just 2 locations, and they don't really think these murders were about drugs. That lead to "cartel" and the murderers being professional hit squad. Now, their "local". Crime scenes were moved to keep looter's from getting into the families " treasures" (what family was told). Now they were moved to preserve evidence, so that the future jury can see for themselves what a horrendous crime this was.

I understand that the "powers that be" have to keep things secret so they can check informants stories and compare the facts to what they are being told. I also know that "rumors" have been swirling around and LE has let them go and grow. These are all tactic's used to investigate crimes and there's nothing new about that.

I have a few question's to. The first is " Why did BJM enter those home's in the first place?" If I came to one of my families homes to do some chore and their car's were there, I would knock on the door first. If they didn't answer I would call them. If they still didn't answer, I would call around to other family members and ask if they knew where or what was going on. Maybe their plans changed and they went some where. I would then leave and come back later, or until I heard from them. I wouldn't just go into their home.
What was around, or what made her just get the key and go in? Was this a usual thing to do when CRsr wasn't home?

Another thing and this is JMO, during the 911 call I can hear a small child in the background. Who's small child is it? People where with her and I don't think they had any children with them. I think she went to Frankie's first and got the kid's out of that home first, before finding CRsr and GR. IIRC LM said that she had went to Frankie's first in one of those first interview's with him. So why did she reverse her story to she found her brother-in-law first? Again what made her just go in the house and get those children out?

There had to be something out of place or different looking as soon as she drove up to the homes to alarm her that something was wrong. Like I said before, if I drove up and the dogs were outside on the porch, I would assume " Hey they must have got up early and left already, the dogs are already outside." CRsr had how many cars to choose from to drive? Just cause one was still there doesn't mean he wasn't driving another. Or went with someone else to wherever. Maybe I'm just different, but if one of my family member's didn't answer their door, I wouldn't just barge in.

JMO

 

[grow73]

Most pit bull type dogs are big babies when they are in a loving environment. Unfortunately they are a favorite among people who abuse and neglect them. Any dog can be dangerous just like any person can.
I do wonder how they were able to not disturb the dog. Even if the dog recognized the person it would respond with tail wagging or excitement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

In Norway owning pitts and am staffs is prohibited by law(since 2004), even mixes. They're harder dogs to train, and are historicaly bred for their killer instincts, so compared to most other dogs they are considered unpredictable and aggressive by nature. I've had no problems with the pitts and staffs I've known, but the problem was their reputation attracted the wrong kind of owners, criminals and young people with no prior dog experience. It got bloody.
Now, if you have a dog that looks like a forbidden breed, you need to have it chipped and registered by a vet. You still see them around though, let's just say that british staffs have gotten a lot larger in the last 12 years. My guess is some vets are against the prohibition, and chip forbidden breeds as something else, claiming good faith if they're questioned. Just a couple of weeks ago an am staff mix was put down by the police after chewing up a pomeranian outside a resturant. The dog was on a short leash, and the owner was a grown woman.

Back to topic ;-), I wouldn't gamble on getting unharmed past a pitt (or any guard dog) I've only met a few times, so the perps must have known the dogs well, or somehow sedated them. MOO

 

[evelezrn]

You all have raised some very good questions! From the get-go this case has been so frustrating because of the "lack" of factual information. Look, we have been told certain things and then again they have changed over the last 6 months.
First we had a large commercial pot operation in 3-4 locations. Now just 2 locations, and they don't really think these murders were about drugs. That lead to "cartel" and the murderers being professional hit squad. Now, their "local". Crime scenes were moved to keep looter's from getting into the families " treasures" (what family was told). Now they were moved to preserve evidence, so that the future jury can see for themselves what a horrendous crime this was.

I understand that the "powers that be" have to keep things secret so they can check informants stories and compare the facts to what they are being told. I also know that "rumors" have been swirling around and LE has let them go and grow. These are all tactic's used to investigate crimes and there's nothing new about that.

I have a few question's to. The first is " Why did BJM enter those home's in the first place?" If I came to one of my families homes to do some chore and their car's were there, I would knock on the door first. If they didn't answer I would call them. If they still didn't answer, I would call around to other family members and ask if they knew where or what was going on. Maybe their plans changed and they went some where. I would then leave and come back later, or until I heard from them. I wouldn't just go into their home.
What was around, or what made her just get the key and go in? Was this a usual thing to do when CRsr wasn't home?

Another thing and this is JMO, during the 911 call I can hear a small child in the background. Who's small child is it? People where with her and I don't think they had any children with them. I think she went to Frankie's first and got the kid's out of that home first, before finding CRsr and GR. IIRC LM said that she had went to Frankie's first in one of those first interview's with him. So why did she reverse her story to she found her brother-in-law first? Again what made her just go in the house and get those children out?

There had to be something out of place or different looking as soon as she drove up to the homes to alarm her that something was wrong. Like I said before, if I drove up and the dogs were outside on the porch, I would assume " Hey they must have got up early and left already, the dogs are already outside." CRsr had how many cars to choose from to drive? Just cause one was still there doesn't mean he wasn't driving another. Or went with someone else to wherever. Maybe I'm just different, but if one of my family member's didn't answer their door, I wouldn't just barge in.

JMO

WOW. You described the events so well. Your post really brought back my memories of all that has happened then and now.

The questions you raise and your observations of how YOU personally would have reacted (if you were in BJM's place at the time) have really made me stop and think. I would have reacted the same way you would have.

I would love to know the answers.

 

[rsd1200]

Most pit bull type dogs are big babies when they are in a loving environment. Unfortunately they are a favorite among people who abuse and neglect them. Any dog can be dangerous just like any person can.
I do wonder how they were able to not disturb the dog. Even if the dog recognized the person it would respond with tail wagging or excitement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

.
The only ones that I've had negative experiences with, were in those loving homes, of dog lovers. They'd never had a problem with dogs before and never had one since. I'm not here to argue about that though. That's just my personal experiences. If the dog were in the trailer and someone it didn't know broke into its territory, it may not be all waggy tailed and happy. It apparently wasn't when the cops came that day. I think the person that killed KR was already in the trailer, and KR felt comfortable enough to lay down to go to sleep, with the assailant right there in the trailer with him. What better way to cover for your vehicle being seen in an area too, than, I was supposed to have spent the night with someone but didn't. I left, or drove by, or I was almost there and my friend got a toothache...

 

[rsd1200]

You all have raised some very good questions! From the get-go this case has been so frustrating because of the "lack" of factual information. Look, we have been told certain things and then again they have changed over the last 6 months.
First we had a large commercial pot operation in 3-4 locations. Now just 2 locations, and they don't really think these murders were about drugs. That lead to "cartel" and the murderers being professional hit squad. Now, their "local". Crime scenes were moved to keep looter's from getting into the families " treasures" (what family was told). Now they were moved to preserve evidence, so that the future jury can see for themselves what a horrendous crime this was.

I understand that the "powers that be" have to keep things secret so they can check informants stories and compare the facts to what they are being told. I also know that "rumors" have been swirling around and LE has let them go and grow. These are all tactic's used to investigate crimes and there's nothing new about that.

I have a few question's to. The first is " Why did BJM enter those home's in the first place?" If I came to one of my families homes to do some chore and their car's were there, I would knock on the door first. If they didn't answer I would call them. If they still didn't answer, I would call around to other family members and ask if they knew where or what was going on. Maybe their plans changed and they went some where. I would then leave and come back later, or until I heard from them. I wouldn't just go into their home.
What was around, or what made her just get the key and go in? Was this a usual thing to do when CRsr wasn't home?

Another thing and this is JMO, during the 911 call I can hear a small child in the background. Who's small child is it? People where with her and I don't think they had any children with them. I think she went to Frankie's first and got the kid's out of that home first, before finding CRsr and GR. IIRC LM said that she had went to Frankie's first in one of those first interview's with him. So why did she reverse her story to she found her brother-in-law first? Again what made her just go in the house and get those children out?

There had to be something out of place or different looking as soon as she drove up to the homes to alarm her that something was wrong. Like I said before, if I drove up and the dogs were outside on the porch, I would assume " Hey they must have got up early and left already, the dogs are already outside." CRsr had how many cars to choose from to drive? Just cause one was still there doesn't mean he wasn't driving another. Or went with someone else to wherever. Maybe I'm just different, but if one of my family member's didn't answer their door, I wouldn't just barge in.

JMO

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Believe it or not there are people who do! Not my family, no. We'd have rung the bell, knocked on the door, maybe pecked on the window, called their landline, then the cell, then my sibling, etc... I'd certainly not have went straight for the spare key and run in the door yelling, Jones! Jones! Jones! (example).