OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #23

[Audrey Horne]

BBM
I'm not a pitt hater. But what you say is true. They were bred to be silent, aggressive, and attack w/o warning. It's in their dna (so to speak). Just like Retrievers retrieve, and Shepherds herd, Rotts were originally bred to drive cattle & later to be police dogs due their intelligence and loyalty (they will still try to naturally drive other creatures, whether you want them to or not, so training is important w/ Rotts too.). People who own Pitts, and other large dogs, should be experienced dog owners, and even then things can go really wrong. You can never let a Pitt, nor any type of dog, but large breeds, especially, get one over on you.

As far as walking past a pitt unharmed, I'd not have taken that chance either. I'd not have done it at CR1's, nor DR's either (iirc, she had a wolf hybrid). The coonhounds, I'd not really worry about other than their barking alerting the homeowner, but, coonhounds bark and bay about something, all of the time, so that was probably white noise to the Rhodens. The assailant(s) were comfortable around those dogs. I also feel that 10:30 p.m. is an odd time to pick up a child. That's bedtime, why not just wait until the child got up the next morning? There's just so much weird happenstance stuff in this case.

To be a little more realistic about pit bull “DNA,” they were actually bred to be caretakers and family dogs. Only because of their loyalty and intense desire to please have they been able to be misused and abused for other purposes. They also overwhelmingly tend to be animal-aggressive as opposed to people-aggressive, though of course there are exceptions.

ETA: and of course they do have the terrier instinct for small prey. Hence the tendency toward animal aggression and the potential risk to small humans.

 

[rsd1200]

This is not going to go over well and I will probably get called on it. One of the first things out of LM's mouth when asked who did this was child custody and demo derbys. So far we have largely overlooked FR's ex who is BR's mother because we assumed she had full custody and that was fine with FR. But what if, for some reason like drugs or a boyfriend that was mean to BR, FR decided to take her to court for custody? Or told her if she or boyfriend if she had one didn't change he would try to get custody? Could it be possible that she got a BF or someone else to help her get rid of the threat to her keeping custody by getting rid of dad and grandparents with HR, CR1 and GR just being wrong place wrong time?

.
I can actually see that. If he, and possibly the other Rhoden family members, had something over on her, and kept threatening her with taking the child, I could definitely see someone losing it, and seeing that they had no other choice. The Rhoden family, and I'm not meaning to speak ill of the dead, but it's not like they hid it, could be bully-ish, or intimidating, at times. I mean, just b/c someone said something at a derby, they get family, and go to the guy's house to beat him up? There was always drama surrounding this family. This once a Rhoden thing, was possibly a bit of lip service too. I've always had a great relationship w/my former in-laws, my ex did not. However, I've never had any thoughts, that if push came to shove, they'd side w/blood. Blood always wins out. I don't care how close you are w/a friend, or former in-law, if you think someone is messing with your blood, blood wins out. Maybe FR wanted his blood living in the trailer as a happy little family, with him and HG raising BR and RR. Maybe BR's mother decided there was only one way to keep her blood with her. It's not out of the realm of possibility. Not even out of the realm that another parent helped her, and that maybe a family member sided w/her and got killed b/c he'd known about the whole thing.

 

[rsd1200]

With the relative age of the homes, not likely there was a pull down handle, unless it was put on new years after it was originally built. I think Jake picking up S. late probably had to do with his work schedule. And Chelsie left Frankie's house at 10:30. She stated she visited a little while before she left.
I still think it is aossibility that if Dana's dogs slept in at nite, they might have been in one of the bathrooms with the door shut since there was a new baby in the house.

My child rented an older trailer at one point. I agree, FR's probably did have the older door knob and locks. Which makes me think that FR was not very worried about security, and not worried at all that his toddler would open up the door and wander away, while they were sleeping. My child put an extra lock at the top, out of my grandchild's reach, so there'd be no slipping outside, to play, without asking.

 

[amauet1]

Boy I haven't seen such good theories and discussions on here for quite awhile! And I for one love it! You guys sure brought up a lot of things I never thought of, but make sense. I'm also wondering if GR was really not still using heroin. That long blank tox report sure looks like they did a lot of testing for something.

Just like someone might have spent the night at KR's, what if GR was an inside man? That this "plan" was just suppost to be a robbery (to the inside people, family or friends) that "helped". But actually the "top" person intended murder the entire time.

Here's some of my thoughts:

Things were planned, but they didn't go as planned and got way out of hand. (the over kill)
As everyone has said, how could so many people that were planning on spending the night, suddenly change their minds for "whatever" their weak excuses were? Didn't at least one person in each household have a job to go to the next day? This was a week night.
Like rsd said, with Kenneth's new job, why would he be taking a day off?
Those 10:30pm drop off and pick up, both at the same time? Again, that's pretty late on a week night for small children to still be up.
The mother's being shot multiple times with their infants right next to them? I just don't see that happening, to risky! Stray bullet or fragment could hit on of the babies, and they wanted those babies left alive.
Protective dogs at Dana's. Those dogs would have tried to protect their owners! If you have large dogs in your house for protection, no way would you lock them up in another room. Especially being a woman with a daughter who had just given birth, and a teenage boy to protect.
Look, someone said that Kenneth was on alert about something. (LM?) and if he was, so was the rest of the family. Kids had been to their house to start or finish a fight. Fight's with other people about Derby's, growing pot, hot heads, teenage hormones, very mad woman threating you. These people IMO where very careful about who they trusted.
It had to be an "inside job" of someone they trusted a lot.

Anyway that's how I see it.

 

[amauet1]

My child rented an older trailer at one point. I agree, FR's probably did have the older door knob and locks. Which makes me think that FR was not very worried about security, and not worried at all that his toddler would open up the door and wander away, while they were sleeping. My child put an extra lock at the top, out of my grandchild's reach, so there'd be know slipping outside, to play, without asking.

Didn't BJM mention something about a chain lock at FR's? See there is still another question. Just like I said, IMO they were on alert, and even with a chain lock on the door, it doesn't make sense that the locked doors would be their "only" secrurity. That is yet another reason I believe these killers 'staged" the crimes.

 

[rsd1200]

To be a little more realistic about pit bull “DNA,” they were actually bred to be caretakers and family dogs. Only because of their loyalty and intense desire to please have they been able to be misused and abused for other purposes. They also overwhelmingly tend to be animal-aggressive as opposed to people-aggressive, though of course there are exceptions.

ETA: and of course they do have the terrier instinct for small prey. Hence the tendency toward animal aggression and the potential risk to small humans.

I've only had negative experiences with them and so have the majority of people that I know, who have owned one. I don't hate them but I've had one jump out of a truck, and attack my small dog, in my own yard, and all my little dog was doing was snoozing in the sun. One attempted to attack my spouse but our GSD ran out from the back and jumped between them. Another killed a goat nearby. The one that attacked my dog, went on to kill a 1/2 grown hog, and the farmer killed the pitt, recently two got out of their yard and went to a neighbors yard and killed their two springer spaniels. Ya'll can have them if you want, but I don't allow them on my place. People who are not experienced with dogs, should not start out with a pitt.

Today’s pit bull is a descendant of the original English bull-baiting dog—a dog that was bred to bite and hold bulls, bears and other large animals around the face and head. When baiting large animals was outlawed in the 1800s, people turned instead to fighting their dogs against each other. These larger, slower bull-baiting dogs were crossed with smaller, quicker terriers to produce a more agile and athletic dog for fighting other dogs.

http://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

 

[amauet1]

I've only had negative experiences with them and so have the majority of people that I know, who have owned one. I don't hate them but I've had one jump out of a truck, and attack my small dog, in my own yard, and all my little dog was doing was snoozing in the sun. One attempted to attack my spouse but our GSD ran out from the back and jumped between them. Another killed a goat nearby. The one that attacked my dog, went on to kill a 1/2 grown hog, and the farmer killed the pitt, recently two got out of their yard and went to a neighbors yard and killed their two springer spaniels. Ya'll can have them if you want, but I don't allow them on my place. People who are not experienced with dogs, should not start out with a pitt.


http://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-policy-and-position-statements/position-statement-pit-bulls

I've never owned a large dog except a mixed dog and german shepard's and with both, you had to let them know who was boss. Not cruelly but I would whip them on their hind quarter's with a shwich and yell at them. Where the pitt's are concerned, I'm sorry, but if an animal can clap their jaws down on me and they have to pry them off because they lock. Sorry I don't want anything to do with them. But other's have no problems with them, so to each his own.

 

[Obiwankenobi]

BBM
I don't think the pitt was an actual, trained, guard dog. Nor do I think that CR1's or DR's dogs were trained guard dogs. I think they were guard dogs in a sense that the Rhodens may have built their dogs reputations up a bit more than what they were. With that said, I never tell anyone that my big dogs are big cuddle bugs. I've got a beware of dog sign, and if asked if they bite, I tell the asker that thus far they've not, but I'd not say they won't (and I don't know that they wouldn't bite a stranger lurking around on the property, in the dark). I've told this before, but my childhood dog bit everyone he could sink a tooth into, however, we walked in on our home being burglarized, when I was young. Our "guard dog" had done zip to guard the house while we'd been gone. This was a 30-ish pound, Heinz57, dog who was registered in town, as a vicious dog, b/c he'd bitten so many people, let burglars waltz right into the house.

That story still makes me laugh.

 

[rsd1200]

Boy I haven't seen such good theories and discussions on here for quite awhile! And I for one love it! You guys sure brought up a lot of things I never thought of, but make sense. I'm also wondering if GR was really not still using heroin. That long blank tox report sure looks like they did a lot of testing for something.

Just like someone might have spent the night at KR's, what if GR was an inside man? That this "plan" was just suppost to be a robbery (to the inside people, family or friends) that "helped". But actually the "top" person intended murder the entire time.

Here's some of my thoughts:

Things were planned, but they didn't go as planned and got way out of hand. (the over kill)
As everyone has said, how could so many people that were planning on spending the night, suddenly change their minds for "whatever" their weak excuses were? Didn't at least one person in each household have a job to go to the next day? This was a week night.
Like rsd said, with Kenneth's new job, why would he be taking a day off?
Those 10:30pm drop off and pick up, both at the same time? Again, that's pretty late on a week night for small children to still be up.
The mother's being shot multiple times with their infants right next to them? I just don't see that happening, to risky! Stray bullet or fragment could hit on of the babies, and they wanted those babies left alive.
Protective dogs at Dana's. Those dogs would have tried to protect their owners! If you have large dogs in your house for protection, no way would you lock them up in another room. Especially being a woman with a daughter who had just given birth, and a teenage boy to protect.
Look, someone said that Kenneth was on alert about something. (LM?) and if he was, so was the rest of the family. Kids had been to their house to start or finish a fight. Fight's with other people about Derby's, growing pot, hot heads, teenage hormones, very mad woman threating you. These people IMO where very careful about who they trusted.
It had to be an "inside job" of someone they trusted a lot.

Anyway that's how I see it.

All good thoughts as well.

BBM

I agree, that could have started out as a robbery. Could it be possible, that with all of the things being purchased and built, that a rumor got around that they had money stashed in those trailers. Derbies are not cheap hobbies. I've wondered from the beginning if it could have been something like "In Cold Blood". There was supposed to be a large sum of money, but there wasn't, and they killed the entire Clutter family. Young people, maybe wanting out of Appalachia, start a new life, hears about all of this supposed money that the Rhodens are sitting on out there... Stranger things have happened.

The dogs being locked up. If I were there alone, w/ a newborn, and my 16 year old brother, and felt nervous at all, I'd have the dogs loose and a maybe a baby gate to deter them from the room where the baby slept.

I agree, it was an inside job. I'm not 100% on who did it, and who helped with info, but I think that the ones who had change of plans that night may have known something was going down. They may not have known murder was going down, but I think they knew something. It's just too coincidental. I really hope I'm wrong.

 

[mamamumbles]

I still wonder if there were multiple players, and people were hiding in the homes. Maybe that's far fetched though because with all the people living in the homes I don't know how often they would be empty to get in and hide. I just don't see KR not waking up if someone came in his trailer. Had to be someone already there, waiting for him to fall asleep.

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[Obiwankenobi]

All dogs, no matter the breed are unpredictable because they can't verbally communicate with us. My father in law has had nothing but pits in the 17 years I've been with my husband. Some of which were very massive. They are very intimidating because their heads are so big. He had the most beautiful blue pit that was humongous but it was the sweetest dog. He'd purposely do the lean against my leg to knock me down and pin me down and lick me to death. I use to worry about my son being around them, but they've never shown any aggression not even to my miniature dachshunds, who, let's face it, think they are elephant size. My first dachshund would attack my husband, whom he loved, when he pretended he was hurting me. I think animals are a lot like people, some are good, others are bad. But, imo, animals are much more innocent than us. I'm a diehard animal lover and they tend to flock to me. I do believe that animals have a sense of my love for them.

However, birds hate me as I am terrified of them! Don't do birds or snakes!

 

[rsd1200]

Didn't BJM mention something about a chain lock at FR's? See there is still another question. Just like I said, IMO they were on alert, and even with a chain lock on the door, it doesn't make sense that the locked doors would be their "only" secrurity. That is yet another reason I believe these killers 'staged" the crimes.

BR, was 3 yrs, 7 months, at the time of the murders. They specifically noted in one article, that he was tall for his age. Still, I'm having trouble with him just walking over and unlocking the door, and letting BJM inside. If he was able to do that, and when he came there, he slept on the den couch, I personally would have been concerned about him going outside w/o permission. Kids will do that when they learn to open doors by themselves. I had chain locks at the top of all of my doors when the kids were little. I think the assailant(s) left through that door, and locked it behind them, and did the same at CR1's. They may have raised the windows as some sort of distraction. Like, it was burglars, going in through the windows, and not someone with keys. They just couldn't put the chain lock back on at FR's. I don't know if I'm making sense on that. Let me know if I need to be more clear.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Boy I haven't seen such good theories and discussions on here for quite awhile! And I for one love it! You guys sure brought up a lot of things I never thought of, but make sense. I'm also wondering if GR was really not still using heroin. That long blank tox report sure looks like they did a lot of testing for something.

Just like someone might have spent the night at KR's, what if GR was an inside man? That this "plan" was just suppost to be a robbery (to the inside people, family or friends) that "helped". But actually the "top" person intended murder the entire time.

Here's some of my thoughts:

Things were planned, but they didn't go as planned and got way out of hand. (the over kill)
As everyone has said, how could so many people that were planning on spending the night, suddenly change their minds for "whatever" their weak excuses were? Didn't at least one person in each household have a job to go to the next day? This was a week night.
Like rsd said, with Kenneth's new job, why would he be taking a day off?
Those 10:30pm drop off and pick up, both at the same time? Again, that's pretty late on a week night for small children to still be up.
The mother's being shot multiple times with their infants right next to them? I just don't see that happening, to risky! Stray bullet or fragment could hit on of the babies, and they wanted those babies left alive.
Protective dogs at Dana's. Those dogs would have tried to protect their owners! If you have large dogs in your house for protection, no way would you lock them up in another room. Especially being a woman with a daughter who had just given birth, and a teenage boy to protect.
Look, someone said that Kenneth was on alert about something. (LM?) and if he was, so was the rest of the family. Kids had been to their house to start or finish a fight. Fight's with other people about Derby's, growing pot, hot heads, teenage hormones, very mad woman threating you. These people IMO where very careful about who they trusted.
It had to be an "inside job" of someone they trusted a lot.

Anyway that's how I see it.

You make an excellent point there. I never thought about that nearly page long redaction of the tox screen. Very possible he was still using.

I agree this very possibly could have been a robbery gone wrong. But I can't see how KR fits into that theory. KR bothers me. In fact I have found myself thinking about KR more than my own husband here lately. But shhhhh don't tell hubby that. lol

KR was supposed to be in Columbus. FR worked at a sawmill. CR1 and GR worked at BBL. Dana worked at a long term care facility. BR's mother was supposed to go to work the next morning according to her. So yes I would think 10:30 PM was late for the kids and the adults to be up on a weeknight.

DR posted on her deceased friend BH's social media memorial page asking him to protect her and her family like he never had before. So I am thinking she had reason to believe trouble was coming from somewhere.

 

[rsd1200]

All dogs, no matter the breed are unpredictable because they can't verbally communicate with us. My father in law has had nothing but pits in the 17 years I've been with my husband. Some of which were very massive. They are very intimidating because their heads are so big. He had the most beautiful blue pit that was humongous but it was the sweetest dog. He'd purposely do the lean against my leg to knock me down and pin me down and lick me to death. I use to worry about my son being around them, but they've never shown any aggression not even to my miniature dachshunds, who, let's face it, think they are elephant size. My first dachshund would attack my husband, whom he loved, when he pretended he was hurting me. I think animals are a lot like people, some are good, others are bad. But, imo, animals are much more innocent than us. I'm a diehard animal lover and they tend to flock to me. I do believe that animals have a sense of my love for them.

However, birds hate me as I am terrified of them! Don't do birds or snakes!

You are right. All animals are unpredictable. I never left my children, nor my grandchildren, alone with my large dogs. I put the Rott up when my parents, or other elderly people, come to visit, because I'm afraid she'll knock them down as she has a tendency to cold nose folks. I taught the kids at an early age that an animal's way of communicating that it was unhappy or angry, was to bite or scratch or growl. All it takes is one bite to traumatize, disfigure, or kill a child. I don't take any chances. I love animals. Always have. I've trained dogs, horses, and even cats, over the years.

 

[rsd1200]

You make an excellent point there. I never thought about that nearly page long redaction of the tox screen. Very possible he was still using.

I agree this very possibly could have been a robbery gone wrong. But I can't see how KR fits into that theory. KR bothers me. In fact I have found myself thinking about KR more than my own husband here lately. But shhhhh don't tell hubby that. lol

KR was supposed to be in Columbus. FR worked at a sawmill. CR1 and GR worked at BBL. Dana worked at a long term care facility. BR's mother was supposed to go to work the next morning according to her. So yes I would think 10:30 PM was late for the kids and the adults to be up on a weeknight.

DR posted on her deceased friend BH's social media memorial page asking him to protect her and her family like he never had before. So I am thinking she had reason to believe trouble was coming from somewhere.

'
Unless KR would have known b/c someone had been pumping him for info. KR doesn't fit for me either. I still think GR was maybe, just in the wrong place. KR had something to do with all of this, knowingly, or unknowingly, and I think he was killed b/c he could have pinpointed the murderers. I realize I keep saying this, but, I keep trying to figure out what he knew, and how he was involved. Maybe he wanted out of the whole Rhoden for life thing. He'd gotten a new job, he'd moved out of the yellow house, next to his brother, to property 10-15 miles away from his brother, but still on Rhoden property. I also found it odd that TR had not been in the yellow house, since his father died, but went inside the day the reporter was there with him. He said he was looking for a family Bible. How would he even know where to start? KR said something about wanting a family Bible, b/c she was listed as Godmother to HR's newborn. That is nothing legally binding though.

 

[rsd1200]

You make an excellent point there. I never thought about that nearly page long redaction of the tox screen. Very possible he was still using.

I agree this very possibly could have been a robbery gone wrong. But I can't see how KR fits into that theory. KR bothers me. In fact I have found myself thinking about KR more than my own husband here lately. But shhhhh don't tell hubby that. lol

KR was supposed to be in Columbus. FR worked at a sawmill. CR1 and GR worked at BBL. Dana worked at a long term care facility. BR's mother was supposed to go to work the next morning according to her. So yes I would think 10:30 PM was late for the kids and the adults to be up on a weeknight.

DR posted on her deceased friend BH's social media memorial page asking him to protect her and her family like he never had before. So I am thinking she had reason to believe trouble was coming from somewhere.

BBM
I have a feeling that was nearing her granddaughter's birth. She may have had a feeling that something could be going to happen at the hospital since there was some confusion of parentage.

 

[rsd1200]

Could someone else have opened the door for BJM? The two people with her, BJM has said:

Manley said she thinks one of the people in her car may have followed her into one of the trailers, but she's not sure which one or what they saw.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/05/11/pike-county-not-leaving-those-babies-there/84194756/
That gives her friends an out. Nope, we stayed in the car. We saw nothing at all.

There were other people inside that scene, really early, b/c HG's mother, got there, as soon as they called, and called someone over to her who'd gotten through before her to ask about HG. I found it odd, that she'd think that she'd be going to the trailer, on UHR, to get the baby, b/c CPS was about to take it, b/c FR was in an accident b/c he drove to fast. The accident wouldn't have been at the house. The baby would have been home w/HG, who didn't work, and wouldn't be w/FR on the way to work. I think HG's mom might have thought there was another reason the police were there, but she's not going to tell the world. That accident story didn't add up. I am NOT stating that HG's mother had any role in this, only that HG might have confided some sort of worry or reason for worry, that her Momma isn't wanting to share right now.

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2016/10/25/hannah-gilleys-mom-my-little-girl-dead/92680404/

 

[leelee114]

This is not going to go over well and I will probably get called on it. One of the first things out of LM's mouth when asked who did this was child custody and demo derbys. So far we have largely overlooked FR's ex who is BR's mother because we assumed she had full custody and that was fine with FR. But what if, for some reason like drugs or a boyfriend that was mean to BR, FR decided to take her to court for custody? Or told her if she or boyfriend if she had one didn't change he would try to get custody? Could it be possible that she got a BF or someone else to help her get rid of the threat to her keeping custody by getting rid of dad and grandparents with HR, CR1 and GR just being wrong place wrong time?

This has been my unspoken/in the back of my mind angle (actually one of two) although I don't think it would fully be a technical custody issue.There are 4 things that I picked up on that have really bothered me to the point that if it was only a crime where Frankie and Hannah Hazel were killed you wouldn't be able to convince me that there wasn't some involvement.My ambien is kicking in so I will type them out tomorrow. However I will say I can easily find gaps in such an angle but that goes for every single theory that currently exists about this case.

 

[grow73]

This is not going to go over well and I will probably get called on it. One of the first things out of LM's mouth when asked who did this was child custody and demo derbys. So far we have largely overlooked FR's ex who is BR's mother because we assumed she had full custody and that was fine with FR. But what if, for some reason like drugs or a boyfriend that was mean to BR, FR decided to take her to court for custody? Or told her if she or boyfriend if she had one didn't change he would try to get custody? Could it be possible that she got a BF or someone else to help her get rid of the threat to her keeping custody by getting rid of dad and grandparents with HR, CR1 and GR just being wrong place wrong time?

She would never left her child at FR's if she had any idea what was going to happen.

Didn't she drop BR off before 10.30? IIRC she stayed a while before she left. Regarding SW, did her father pick her up on his way home from work? I agree it's late for shipping babies around, but with everyones different work schedules maybe this was just the way they did it.

If we are looking at custody, is it not more logical to look at the newborn?

 

[mamamumbles]

BBM
I have a feeling that was nearing her granddaughter's birth. She may have had a feeling that something could be going to happen at the hospital since there was some confusion of parentage.

Or after the hospital. I didn't see any pictures of CG with baby. Was someone not allowed to see baby? Just because he got a sonogram picture during pregnancy doesn't mean he was allowed to see baby at birth.
However, as much as this makes sense given the kids who are in foster care, I still don't know how KR could be involved, unless this is all due to the fights with people from waverly and Ken was one of the ones fighting out at that car that day.
So many different theories. So frustrated. The cartel theory was easier to make out. Now that reader says no cartel, I'm completely confused.

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