OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #25

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Good luck! Hope you didn't go cross-eyed on the tablet. :gaah: Let us know what you think.

IMO, the big issues seemed to be

How much Dr. Kessler revealed to Rhoden/Gilley family members about the preliminary AR? He said he would have given them a copy if they asked for it. I wonder if he could still do that today? He also didn't make them sign any confidentiality agreement, he said that's not usually done, even in murder cases.

Who did the redactions to the final AR and why are they so concerned about admitting it?

Did LE have any influence over what was included in the AR?

Who was Dr. Kessler's legal counsel who delivered to him the redacted final AR? How long has DeWine's attorney been representing and advising Dr. K?

The Columbus Dispatch evidence packets all include a lot of Affadavits from various county coroners who do routinely provide copies of AR's to the news media and others.

JMO, MOO


BBM
Because it is contrary to law and makes it look like they are hiding something that the public has a right to know. It would be a career killer if they lose in court and no one wants to be drawn into it.

This case and whether it is solved looks to be a casualty of a petty power struggle. Numerous coroners state cases where releasing the autopsies helped bring forth tips that solved cases. If this continues this case may very well never be solved as the more time passes the less people are inclined to get involved and tell what they know. Sad.
 
I know, it's hard to get through those. I just finished reading it. The attorney representing Dr. K who was making all the objections is one of AG DeWine's star attorneys in his office. His office is working pretty hard to keep Dr. K from revealing anything of substance. The other attorney representing the Columbus Dpatch was very good, too. He got a lot out of the doctor.

ETA: I can't understand why AG Dewine ' s office was working so hard to hide the fact that they and BC I did the redactions. It would have no effect on solving the case. What are they so worried about?

Also wondering what autopsy details the coroner gave the victims families. He didn't seem to want to say much about that. Also odd that he claims he has hardly talked to sheriff's deputies or BCI. Have a hard time understanding why he's protecting them or why they need it.


I don't think there is anything in those autopsies that would endanger the case. There is not a statement from the Hamilton county coroner, who actually did the autopsies, in the evidence given by the AG's office to support not releasing them. That is very telling I think that the actual Coroner who did the autopsies wouldn't state there was anything in them to endanger the solving of this case.

Two of the crime scenes are in two other counties. Strange we haven't seen the theatrics out of the sheriffs of those counties that we have seen out of Reader and Dewine concerning the media.

If releasing information about the progress of the case truly would endanger it why doesn't the other two sheriffs join Reader and Dewine in voicing that opinion?
 
I don't think there is anything in those autopsies that would endanger the case. There is not a statement from the Hamilton county coroner, who actually did the autopsies, in the evidence given by the AG's office to support not releasing them. That is very telling I think that the actual Coroner who did the autopsies wouldn't state there was anything in them to endanger the solving of this case.

Two of the crime scenes are in two other counties. Strange we haven't seen the theatrics out of the sheriffs of those counties that we have seen out of Reader and Dewine concerning the media.

If releasing information about the progress of the case truly would endanger it why doesn't the other two sheriffs join Reader and Dewine in voicing that opinion?

Good questions. Obviously, the PCCO didn't see anything risky in the preliminary AR, as he was willing to give it to the family members. Also means he didn't have reason to suspect them as perps. His attorney really wouldn't let him say if he felt anything in the final AR was critical to the investigation.

The silence from the LE & coroners in the other two counties has been interesting, considering the coroner from Adams Co was at the crime scene and helped with initial examinations. Seems Ohio BCI in Piketon and AG DeWine's office are the ones in charge and they're keeping a very tight grip on everything and everyone related to the investigation.

JMO, the newspapers may win their case, but it's difficult to say. Ohio Supreme Court is heavily stacked with justices who will do what DeWine wants. The majority is not usually representative of the public interest, YKWIM

ETA: Also wondering, after reading the depo, how many other LE have access to the unredacted ARs. Maybe the other affected counties don't, but you would think they do. I'd like to know more about which officials have access to the AR's.
 
In the reporters statement she all but accuses Dewine of doing everything he can to hinder the solving of this case. And she is right.

From the very beginning with those tales of a huge (biggest ever discovered in Ohio) commercial grow operations to his wife's opinion (what are her credentials that she based her opinion on?) that the victims were engaged in cockfighting he has done everything he can to smear the victims and make them unsympathetic to the public. As has Charlie Reader with his tales of bedbugs and drug involvement. As the reporter says all of this gives rise to the locals claiming a conspiracy by LE to cover up these murders.

If I didn't know any better I would think Reader and Dewine got together one dark night and decided to go on a crime spree. Or Reader did and Dewine decided to cover it up because the world can't afford to lose such an upstanding intelligent Sheriff like Reader After all who would keep the media in line with their rants on social media if not Charlie?)

Can anyone say incompetent?
 
Thank you! This is true! I'm comfortable with the autopsy not being public now!!!
 
A thought occurred to me several weeks after the murders but I've been reluctant to share it. But at this point.... why not.

Both local (PCSO) and state (BCI & AG) authorities haven't released any new info.
There have been no leaks.

It makes me wonder if a higher agency has instructed them to keep quiet for some reason.

Could releasing info on this case jeopardize something in an ongoing "federal" investigation?

Could it be that a Federal agency like FBI or DEA doesn't want public to know details because it could blow an even bigger investigation?

Could that be why local and state authorities are so tight lipped? Maybe they're not allowed to give the public any info?

Just a thought.
 
A thought occurred to me several weeks after the murders but I've been reluctant to share it. But at this point.... why not.

Both local (PCSO) and state (BCI & AG) authorities haven't released any new info.
There have been no leaks.

It makes me wonder if a higher agency has instructed them to keep quiet for some reason.

Could releasing info on this case jeopardize something in an ongoing "federal" investigation?

Could it be that a Federal agency like FBI or DEA doesn't want public to know details because it could blow an even bigger investigation?

Could that be why local and state authorities are so tight lipped? Maybe they're not allowed to give the public any info?

Just a thought.


I have also wondered about this case going to court jeopardizing an on going undercover operation.
I see no other reason for the secrecy unless they are protecting someone. They don't seem to want it solved...
 
What would be the benefit of releasing the full autopsy reports?

Killers usually leave something behind (like DNA) and usually take something (like a memento) from their crime scene.

So, for example...

Suppose the victims were burned with an antique clothes iron... the ones made from heavy cast iron. An iron that had been in the killers family for generations. That iron would probably leave marks specific to that particular iron. Now, suppose iron marks were mentioned in the reports. And as a result of that info being released the killer disposes of the iron.

Wouldn't you prefer that the killer still have that iron in their possession if and when a search warrant is issued? So that the iron could be presented in court as evidence?
 
I am of the opinion of most on here. Weather they meant to or not, the powers that be have handled this case badly. By keeping the info about this case secret, they have opened the door to public doubt about their ability to solve it. And by incorrect info (big drug op found at how may locations as of today?), have left themselves open to all the criticism their receiving from the public. Their asking us to "trust" them, in this day and age where we have seen "corruption" in a lot of government agencies, politics, etc. This isn't the 50's anymore and "we the public" no longer trust officials on blind faith.
About the autopsies, again I believe this should be left up to the families. These were their loved ones, and although we all care, that's a decision that should be left up to the people they belonged to IMO. Only problem is, for the last couple of months, we haven't heard anything from them. As far as we know, they are just as much in the dark about what's going on as we are. The more this silence goes on, the harder it is on "we the public". I can only imagine how truly awful this is on their families.
Me, myself, I want to know what's in those autopsies, it's the only information that we know exists. I didn't come to this website for gossip, rumors, or any other silly reason. I came here as most of us did, because after hearing about a whole family being "whipped out" in one night, I was scared and devastated this could happen in a little country town in the USA.
Ordinary people, just like us, going about their everyday lives, loving their family, watching their children grow and starting to enjoy the grandchildren coming into their lives. Making plans for their twilight years when the struggle of feeding and clothing your children is just about done. Looking forward to a more easy life with just the "two" of you in it. All the hopes and dreams that those young people will never have a chance to fulfill. All gone, in just hours, for what?
Human life matters! It's a gift and these monsters took that away from these people and their families for whatever stupid reason's they had. I, like everyone else want some answers and worry about them just running lose out there, maybe planning another crime with more lives lost.
 
There may be things in the autopsies that only the killer(s) would know. This allows them to weed out the spite tips, and the folks who confess, for some odd reason, when they did not commit the crime, and sometimes that little bit can make or break a confession and a case. If there is something in there that only the killer(s) would know and this is the case, then I'm for leaving that redacted, and/or keep them closed.

I agree. According to LE it involves at least 2 perps. They are probably hoping for confession.

I also think the motive is quite weird, It's quite possible someone confesses to protect another person for reasons we may not understand.

I don't know when it's going to happen. It doesn't look good. I am not sure to believe anymore the explanation "It's taking a long time to process 4 scenes"
 
I agree. According to LE it involves at least 2 perps. They are probably hoping for confession.

I also think the motive is quite weird, It's quite possible someone confesses to protect another person for reasons we may not understand.

I don't know when it's going to happen. It doesn't look good. I am not sure to believe anymore the explanation "It's taking a long time to process 4 scenes"

I don't think anyone is going to come in and confess to this crime. In the event of a false confession, you don't need the information in an autopsy to weed out the weirdos that do this. They have the trailers stored out of reach of the family and the public. Just ask them some details about the inside of the trailers. After all no news media or public has been inside of them so that information is still being held from the public. Not even family (other than BJM and DS) has been inside the crime scenes. LE wouldn't even let them in to collect papers needed for probate. They are stored inside a warehouse, wrapped (we think) in plastic. So just ask them "hey if you are the killer, then what color carpet is in the bedroom? What was sitting on the dining room table ect?"

There are all kinds of things that are being kept secret in this case. Like moving the crime scenes and storing them away from the public eye. I think it has more to do with AG Dewine and Sheriff Readers dislike of media than it does compromising the case.
 
I don't think anyone is going to come in and confess to this crime. In the event of a false confession, you don't need the information in an autopsy to weed out the weirdos that do this. They have the trailers stored out of reach of the family and the public. Just ask them some details about the inside of the trailers. After all no news media or public has been inside of them so that information is still being held from the public. Not even family (other than BJM and DS) has been inside the crime scenes. LE wouldn't even let them in to collect papers needed for probate. They are stored inside a warehouse, wrapped (we think) in plastic. So just ask them "hey if you are the killer, then what color carpet is in the bedroom? What was sitting on the dining room table ect?"

There are all kinds of things that are being kept secret in this case. Like moving the crime scenes and storing them away from the public eye. I think it has more to do with AG Dewine and Sheriff Readers dislike of media than it does compromising the case.

I think it will need more than the color of the carpet. It should be red by now...js

I think in the autopsy report, you'll find who was shot in the face or in the back of the head. That's not a detail. It's the story of the crime. Who was injured, where, how...and so on. Crucial in court imo.

Will somebody talk? Maybe if there is a break through or if they get caught in something else
 
We heard it from the sheriff : somebody is covering something. So when someone will start talking, how will we know it's the truth?

How much evidence they have apart from the autopsy ? At this point, 11 months in the case, My guess is "not enough"
 
I don't think anyone is going to come in and confess to this crime. In the event of a false confession, you don't need the information in an autopsy to weed out the weirdos that do this. They have the trailers stored out of reach of the family and the public. Just ask them some details about the inside of the trailers. After all no news media or public has been inside of them so that information is still being held from the public. Not even family (other than BJM and DS) has been inside the crime scenes. LE wouldn't even let them in to collect papers needed for probate. They are stored inside a warehouse, wrapped (we think) in plastic. So just ask them "hey if you are the killer, then what color carpet is in the bedroom? What was sitting on the dining room table ect?"

There are all kinds of things that are being kept secret in this case. Like moving the crime scenes and storing them away from the public eye. I think it has more to do with AG Dewine and Sheriff Readers dislike of media than it does compromising the case.

Have to agree, some of the redactions are just "thumbing their nose" at the news media. Most of the "black box" redactions seemed insignificant. For those here at WS used to reading ARs, seeing a standard phrase like "this is the body of a deceased well-nouished, healthy male/female age XX" is not key evidence, but it was a phrase that was blacked out in every Rhoden AR. IMO, that's just LE throwing an insult at the news media. In KR's autopsy, they leave the description of skin tags on the right side of the neck, but one sentence later redact the location of a mole elsewhere. That's just stupid. Skin tags are identifying marks, often with the appearance of a mole.

When I see the AG and BCI do stuff like that, it makes me think they either aren't taking the case seriously or are more interested in scoring points against the news media and public than they are investigating the murders. They apparently have time, resources and energy to be petty and unprofessional.

I have the same concern with the attorney from the Ohio AG's office representing the Pike County coroner, Dr. Kessler, in his deposition. That attorney spent a great deal of time investigating and preparing for that deposition. She and Rob Junk have invested a lot of time and labor into controlling what that guy says and does, from the first day of the investigation. Shouldn't people investigating the murders of 8 people be spending more time on that? After reading these files from the lawsuits, I have serious concerns about how much any of them are actually working on catching the killers.

I don't need the AR's to reveal the gory details of the victims' deaths. I'm more interested in the information they reveal about how this investigation is being handled, how much evidence they really have (IMO, it's significant) and what they're doing with it. I want to see more records made public to gain a better idea of how many highly skilled experts are involved, how much experience the people have who are leading the investigation and if they're sharing information and cooperating with other LE and forensic experts.

What's been revealed thus far in the FOIA cases for the autopsy reports is definitely not encouraging. So far, it paints the picture of a small, tightly controlled investigation that, now that the evidence is all locked up, is just circling the wagons to protect themselves, fending off questions from the public and not doing much else.

I'd like to think they're keeping quiet to protect ongoing undercover investigations of major crime rings to take down big drug kingpins, but I'm not sure that's the case anymore. But I'm having a hard time finding any major case of that size and scope that BCI has ever cracked in Ohio. Hope I'm wrong.
 
We heard it from the sheriff : somebody is covering something. So when someone will start talking, how will we know it's the truth?

How much evidence they have apart from the autopsy ? At this point, 11 months in the case, My guess is "not enough"

How do we know someone who saw or knows something hasn't talked already?
 
I wonder why the AR's have been so heavily redacted....
What could there possibly be written in them that we, the public, can't see?

maybe evidence bodies that could be linked to other crimes?
 
If I could write a letter to the Pike County authorities it would say this:

No one is going to admit to killing the Rhodens because the people who killed the Rhodens have no conscience and have probably killed before. They also probably arent intimidated by fake threats of going to jail for not telling the truth and really probably do not live nearby anyway. Please release every single thing you know so the public can help solve this crime. Thank you.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 
I'm sure everyone on here wants all the promises and assurances to stop. Let's see results. Give us some "proof" that something in this investigation is happening. Or give us something to go on that is the truth, so that we can help.
 
What would be the benefit of releasing the full autopsy reports?

Killers usually leave something behind (like DNA) and usually take something (like a memento) from their crime scene.

So, for example...

Suppose the victims were burned with an antique clothes iron... the ones made from heavy cast iron. An iron that had been in the killers family for generations. That iron would probably leave marks specific to that particular iron. Now, suppose iron marks were mentioned in the reports. And as a result of that info being released the killer disposes of the iron.

Wouldn't you prefer that the killer still have that iron in their possession if and when a search warrant is issued? So that the iron could be presented in court as evidence?


Let's take that supposition a step further shall we?

Supposing that said iron was used to burn the victim and the autopsy report is released describing that burn and stating it was made by a heavy antique cast iron clothes iron with a chip out of the tip of it. The public sees that and someone out there says "hmmm That sounds like great grandmas clothes iron she used to iron our clothes with when we were little that my second cousin twice removed inherited. I know cousin so-in-so still has it so maybe I should call the sheriff and tell him he better check that out. It could be the tip that solves the murder.

Before you can have a trial that evidence is presented in you first have to find out who the killer is.

Given that no man is an island, the killer/killers have a circle of family and friends that might recognize a particular method or something done to the victims that is unique to someone they know. It could very well be the tip that breaks this case.
 
How do we know someone who saw or knows something hasn't talked already?

We don't know if someone has talked. We don't know if there were unknown fingerprints or DNA. No evidence, for
anything, has ever been shown. If any less info was released, the public wouldn't know there was a crime committed.
 
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