OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #25

[mamamumbles]

Maybe the father of the baby was their business partner in drugs and helped the organization they did wrong with getting into the homes. Maybe that person is part of their business.

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[Elley Mae]

I don't read other forums and I wasn't referring to this rumour of FR not being DR child.

I was speculating on a 4th child, in addition to FR, CRjr, HR. Whether biological or just emotionally part of the family.

I seem to remember a "child" that died, that CRsr raised? And paid for burial. ? I tried to find but couldn't find. I thought it was in an article, death in the foothills. I found it but couldn't open link. Jmo

 

[Elley Mae]

*

Following diligently for the past year, plus, I'm intrigued by this notion of questionable paternities being a motive in this massacre. Folks have long speculated here about the timing of the killings being 4 days after the birth of HR's 2nd baby.So who's the dad of the 1st again?

And this is my question....what if, upon delivery, it was determined that the infant was of a different race????Might get more than a few riled up, especially if surprising paternities had been a previous issue in another generation...? Just thinking, as we all are...

The two surviving Rhoden babies have been in state custody since the slayings occurred, according to reports, seven month-old ***** Rhoden, daughter of Hanna Rhoden, and one year-old ******* Rhoden, son of Hannah Gilley and Frankie Rhoden. At least three families have hired lawyers in an attempt to gain custody of the children. Several family members are reported to have taken paternity tests and have submitted to background checks. Pike County Children Services had requested that previous courtroom proceedings be closed and records sealed to protect the children from potential danger.

https://www.3rdrailpolitics.com/article/177

Please note that there are names in article that can't be posted.
*

 

[rsd1200]

I seem to remember a "child" that died, that CRsr raised? And paid for burial. ? I tried to find but couldn't find. I thought it was in an article, death in the foothills. I found it but couldn't open link. Jmo

.
KR had a child who died, in 1995. He was six years old.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
I think at some point in our lives, most of us have, but only a very small percent of folks ever act on those feelings.

I'm sure it's been posted in here somewhere before, but I found these numbers interesting even though they're a few years old.

In the FBI records, there were 12,664 murder victims in 2011.

77.6% were male; 54.3% were killed by someone they knew (acquaintance, neighbor, friend, boyfriend, etc.); 24.8% were killed by family members.

Also, of the murders for which the circumstance surrounding the murder was known:
42.9% were murdered during arguments (including romantic triangles), and 23.1 % accounted for felony circumstances (rape, robbery, burglary, etc.).

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u....w-enforcement/expanded/expanded-homicide-data

Here's some more interesting information from a study done in 1999 about clearance of homicide cases:

In 68% of all closed cases, the victim knew the offender.
In 30.2% of all closed cases, the offender was a stranger

In only 11% of open cases, victim knew the offender

Table 8 lists the relationship, if any, between the victim and offender for all cases, closed cases, and open cases. The offender and victim were strangers prior to the homicide incident in 23.6% of the cases. In 53.1% of the cases they had known each other. In 23.3% of the cases the relationship between victim and offender was unknown. The victim and offender were members of the same family in 7.8% of the cases. They were related by blood in 4.7% of the cases and related by marriage in 2.3%. In 0.8% of the cases the victim and offender were related but their relationship was unspecified. They lived together in 8.6% of the cases. In 6.3% (n = 50) of the cases the victim and offender had a romantic relationship in either the immediate or distant past.

Cases most easily solved are those where the killer is related to or has a relationship with the victim.

Only 3.9% of murder cases are solved after more than 1 yr.

Offender variables that affect whether a murder is solved - those offenders least likely to be caught are those who are drug buyers and who have a previous record of property crimes

Table 17 shows the circumstance most likely for a murder to go unsolved - when it's punishment to the victim for informing on crimes

Table 17 lists motivations for the homicide that had a significant effect on closing the case. Four motivations had a significant effect at the p <.05 level. If the homicide involved preemption for an anticipated retaliatory attack, the case was more likely to be solved (odds ratio = 4.54). If the homicide involved punishment for informing, the case was less likely to close (odds ratio = .17). The case was more likely to be solved if the homicide involved a conflict over money/property other than drugs (odds ratio = 2.55). If the offender was defending himself or herself, the case was more likely to be solved (odds ratio = 3.88).

Lots of good information at the link.

Another good article on the topic from The Economist, last year

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...rest-more-third-nations-killings-getting-away

The fact that so many people are getting away with murder is partly the result of good news. Homicides in America have dropped by nearly a third since 1990. Fatal crimes of passion, which tend to be easier to solve, have plummeted just as quickly. The murders that are left&#8212;around 14,500 each year&#8212;tend to be harder to clear up, as they often involve gangs or organised crime where witnesses are scared.

BBM

...

In a Department of Justice study of police departments with some of the highest clearance rates, he (researcher) found that the most essential characteristics were trusting relationships with locals and good teamwork.

BBM

ETA: Here's an NPR article with good information. It contains a link where you can search different localities and find the statistics for how well they solve murder and other cases.

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved

 

[Ray Pate]

Ellie's post; 943 is getting very hot,especially the information about the
two babies spared from slaughter..I have said it before time and time that
HR left us the evidence to track the killer if foster care will use the court to
find the bio father of HR's child... No agency is going to follow the rightful
process to find a killer until the court demands some action. I would love
for all users to read that reporters column again and refresh the memory
about certain facts. If you follow the actions of each investigative agency
in Pike County and trace the person that has the authority to make decisions
about possible evidence and that person makes recommendations that will
cause evidence to be redacted or withdrawn, take note that the rat is moving
the cheese around to protect himself...When it was revealed to me that
the fifth wheel was parked fifteen mile from the other two crime locations,
my jaw dropped...It just reinforces my theory...

 

[rsd1200]

Just bringing this forward to aid in discussions about possible suspects. It's a link to the depostion of Pike County Coroner Dr. David Kessler.

http://supremecourt.ohio.gov/pdf_viewer/pdf_viewer.aspx?pdf=816546.pdf

In the deposition, Dr Kessler states:

He had no problems sharing the results of the preliminary autopsy report with the families of the victims.

Neither LE or Dr Kessler think the surviving family were suspects in the murders, so they were not concerned about sharing the autopsy reports with them.

The request/order to seal the autopsy reports from public access came from Pike Co prosecutor Rob Junk.

Anyone who hasn't had a chance to read the deposition should take the time to do so. It has some good information in it.

.
This has been added to since I last read the document. When I first read it, it only had Kessler's deposition. There's also a summary. I didn't know what CLEIR was and looked it up, as it's mentioned 2-3 times. It means "confidential law enforcement investigatory records".

Page 11 (or Page numbered 2 of the Relators' Brief)

"The Final Autopsy Reports are available to decedents&#8217; next of kin without any limitation on their use or public dissemination.

Respondent Kessler testified that at no time did any law enforcement personnel inform or advise him that that the autopsies contained confidential information or, if disclosed to the public, would have had any effect on the ongoing murder investigation."

Here is a link to the summary:
http://stagenc.build.dispatch.com/assets/pdf/OH28858327.PDF

 

[rsd1200]

Some things I wish I knew...

Like, how was the relationship between the R family and the parents of the small kids. I noticed there seemed to be about a year of missing posts on FRs FB page around the time that he and CR would have split and him and HG got together.

I noticed this w/another person, who can't be named, but is a friend of HMR. A whole block of time is missing from that period, when, being as who they are, I'd have expected something to have been said of the family's demise, or hers, at the very least.

 

[amauet1]

I just read the prilimary autopsy reports( also redeacted) and it says something about postpartum with___________ healing uterine lining on HHG's report. Does anyone know what that means? I looked it up and all I get is healing after a birth or some kind of infection after a birth. But R---r Rhoden was 6 month's old and all that birth healing should have already have been healed.

 

[amauet1]

link https//www.scribd.com/document/325056839/Pike-County-documents You guys know I'm not good at this!

 

[Ray Pate]

I so much appreciate all the fine information revealed in the arguments
the court makes available..I started reading and I could not stop. The
decision of the court made no mistake in directing that the news reporter
for the Columbus Dispatch was awarded full disclosure and awarded court
costs and Atty.fees..Now , as I have described earlier investigators
have redacted the reports to where they are only good for describing
nonessential information and partly worthless. Rob Junk gave the order to
redact and cut the information off the reports as the reports are handed out.
It is interesting to note that the coroner is independent from other county
agencies and his office does not have to consult any other agency on
their role or obligation ..The Coroner's staff hand out reports to deserving
kin with all full information involved..So, someone is holding up the efforts
to name the killer by messing with evidence...

 

[Dudly]

.
This has been added to since I last read the document. When I first read it, it only had Kessler's deposition. There's also a summary. I didn't know what CLEIR was and looked it up, as it's mentioned 2-3 times. It means "confidential law enforcement investigatory records".

Page 11 (or Page numbered 2 of the Relators' Brief)



Here is a link to the summary:
http://stagenc.build.dispatch.com/assets/pdf/OH28858327.PDF

It will be interesting to hear the reasoning if the Supreme Court sides with not releasing the reports...

 

[badkitty203]

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[Ray Pate]

I might ad, the transcripts of the Supreme Court will be a delight to follow..
As you might know, my PI once worked for Rob Junk and given the
reputation that Mr.Junk carries, according to our information,, it does not
surprise me that he might have made the decision to redact the reports
without the benefit of other investigators rejecting the idea.As I read the
released transcript, it is very difficult to see the Supreme Court even opening
the case handed to them to consider. As I understand the law,The Supreme
Court will only hear cases involving the violation of the Constitution..
Another problem evolving out of this mess, as I see it currently..is if my
PI is finally brought before the grand jury for indictment, Pike County will
develop into a series of monitory obligations that Pike County government
can not afford. Much more is in the future.

 

[jk204]

Here's some more interesting information from a study done in 1999 about clearance of homicide cases:

In 68% of all closed cases, the victim knew the offender.
In 30.2% of all closed cases, the offender was a stranger

In only 11% of open cases, victim knew the offender



Cases most easily solved are those where the killer is related to or has a relationship with the victim.

Only 3.9% of murder cases are solved after more than 1 yr.

Offender variables that affect whether a murder is solved - those offenders least likely to be caught are those who are drug buyers and who have a previous record of property crimes

Table 17 shows the circumstance most likely for a murder to go unsolved - when it's punishment to the victim for informing on crimes



Lots of good information at the link.

Another good article on the topic from The Economist, last year

http://www.economist.com/news/unite...rest-more-third-nations-killings-getting-away

BBM

...

BBM

ETA: Here's an NPR article with good information. It contains a link where you can search different localities and find the statistics for how well they solve murder and other cases.

http://www.npr.org/2015/03/30/395069137/open-cases-why-one-third-of-murders-in-america-go-unresolved

These stats on the status (open, close) of investigations are very general and do not take into account the exceptional characteristics of this crime: i) multiple homicide and ii) premeditation.

1) According to FBI multiple homicide stats, the probability of an acquaintance or family member being involved increases with the number of related victims. What is the probability that the 8 family members were killed in 4 homes by someone they don't know? There is no stats for 8, but the probability is low.

2) Yes, relationship to victims is an important factor in the solving rate. But premeditation is an equally important factor in the difficulty of solving. Obviously this was planned.

In particular, the statistics should filter premeditated murders. We would find that these murders are not easier to solve when committed by people known to the victims than by strangers. I would actually argue the opposite. People who plan killings, not to get caught, do it on grounds they know.

 

[Flatbush]

Sorry I have not been in much, but I'm back. Lived on a second floor unit, had to get on ground unit for my knee and my desire to grow some tomatoes.
Anyway gotta read back some again to be sure to be caught up, and yes, I am still in Pike.
I did read a question about FR being DRs son I think? Am enclosing a link that will answer that with a yes.

http://www.rogerwdavisfuneralhome.com/notices/Rhoden-Family

Does anyone have an idea when the court will make the decision on releasing the reports?
I know no pictures will be released, I don't want them to be. Nothing from "investigators" but what the written coroner report is (far as I understand it) public record. I just want this done right. We certainly don't need grounds for a mistrial.

 

[rsd1200]

I just read the prilimary autopsy reports( also redeacted) and it says something about postpartum with___________ healing uterine lining on HHG's report. Does anyone know what that means? I looked it up and all I get is healing after a birth or some kind of infection after a birth. But R---r Rhoden was 6 month's old and all that birth healing should have already have been healed.

BBM
IANADr but, I'm going to put this as delicately as possible. The terms used, read to me, of a pregnancy not carried to full term. "Postpartum" is a specific time period, and when combined with "healing uterine lining", tends to point in that direction even more-so.

 

[Betty P]

I might ad, the transcripts of the Supreme Court will be a delight to follow..
As you might know, my PI once worked for Rob Junk and given the
reputation that Mr.Junk carries, according to our information,, it does not
surprise me that he might have made the decision to redact the reports
without the benefit of other investigators rejecting the idea.As I read the
released transcript, it is very difficult to see the Supreme Court even opening
the case handed to them to consider. As I understand the law,The Supreme
Court will only hear cases involving the violation of the Constitution..
Another problem evolving out of this mess, as I see it currently..is if my
PI is finally brought before the grand jury for indictment, Pike County will
develop into a series of monitory obligations that Pike County government
can not afford. Much more is in the future.

Thanks for the input, Ray. You know, when it comes to the Ohio Supreme Court, as we Ohioans sometimes say, the US Constitution stops at the Ohio border. It looks like the latest battle on these cases involved the Supreme Court decision to review and discuss the Rhoden's final autopsy reports in private. No public or news media allowed.

Yes, if they ever catch the perps, it will place a big financial burden on Pike County, OH. It would only be fair if the state helped cover some of the cost.

 

[Betty P]

BBM
IANADr but, I'm going to put this as delicately as possible. The terms used, read to me, of a pregnancy not carried to full term. "Postpartum" is a specific time period, and when combined with "healing uterine lining", tends to point in that direction even more-so.

I'm not a medical professional, either, but it sounds like routine healing after childbirth. She had just given birth 4 days prior and there wasn't any indication that her baby wasn't full term, nor was their any mention of complications. The baby was already home with her, so was in good health. It takes a while for a woman's body to heal after birth.

 

[Betty P]

These stats on the status (open, close) of investigations are very general and do not take into account the exceptional characteristics of this crime: i) multiple homicide and ii) premeditation.

1) According to FBI multiple homicide stats, the probability of an acquaintance or family member being involved increases with the number of related victims. What is the probability that the 8 family members were killed in 4 homes by someone they don't know? There is no stats for 8, but the probability is low.

2) Yes, relationship to victims is an important factor in the solving rate. But premeditation is an equally important factor in the difficulty of solving. Obviously this was planned.

In particular, the statistics should filter premeditated murders. We would find that these murders are not easier to solve when committed by people known to the victims than by strangers. I would actually argue the opposite. People who plan killings, not to get caught, do it on grounds they know.

Yes, we agree. This murder was definitely planned in advance, making it much more difficult to solve. This is a rare case, one that involves people who were in the business of growing and selling MJ.