OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #27

[Betty P]

Chris Graves latest story

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/05/22/rhoden-evidence-tampering-court-today/102003386/

JM's attorney:

"They don't want their witnesses cross-examined at this point,'' said Bougler of Chillocothe. "This was an unsuccessful strategy to put pressure on him."

The hearing today, if it continued, would have subjected investigator to questions about why they were bringing charges, according to prosecutor Rob Junk . So the state doesn't want to publicly answer any questions about why they charged JM with evidence tampering. What questions do Rob Junk, Reader and BCI not want to answer?

They want to question JM in the secrecy of GJ proceedings where he is not allowed to have his own attorney present.

Boulger said if the grand jury indicts his client, he then will start the discovery process -- which would likely force the state to unseal the warrant and the affidavit related to the tracking device.

"The affidavit is where the juice is,'' Bougler said. "They have done all of this behind close doors.'"

An affidavit is a statement that authorities must provide to a court stating their probable cause, which usually includes facts they have developed, in order to get a warrant.

...

Boulger, however, said this is the first time he has seen charges in a case.

"This has left a lot of people scratching their heads,'' he said.

 

[Betty P]

1 and/or 2 in my opinion..

#3 could be related to #2

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Chris Graves latest story

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2017/05/22/rhoden-evidence-tampering-court-today/102003386/

As I said before, the charges and arrest of JM is all smoke and mirrors to take attention off the searches on the W's property. There is where it is all at.

They did not go in like gang busters with SWAT and drug task force and 30 cars of LE for no reason. They absolutely believed they would find something, and they may have. We know they took a trailer belonging to JW or as I suspect, his parents. What else did they take? What did they take from the CCR horse ranch?

Then you have the W's selling out and pulling a disappearing act leaving a bunch of stuff behind. My gut tells me the W's, all of them, are in this up to their necks.


They don't want their witnesses cross-examined at this point,'' said Bougler of Chillocothe. "This was an unsuccessful strategy to put pressure on him."

JM knows something and they know he knows. I believe that something is about the decades long criminal activity in the area. Then there is the ones who sold him that truck. LE says it was used as a means to commit aggravated murder. You can't overlook that fact either. LE is coming right out and saying this truck was involved in the murders. So who was driving it that night? JM did not own it at that time, but he could have borrowed it from someone.

 

[Betty P]

JM and his family's safety are now at risk. The killers are out, free. JM is going to have to go into a secret GJ where he will be forced to answer any question the prosecutor asks or risk going to jail for the tampering/vandalism charge. The killers are likely afraid he will finally talk and may assume it would be easier to get rid of him before he's forced to testify.

And LE doesn't seem at all concerned about the safety of him or his family.

 

[ts51]

Kind of O/T, but going back to the case notes on the first post of the thread, I noticed that KR and his ex-wife divorced in 2006 citing incompatability..DR and CR1 divorced in 2007 citing irreconsilable (sp?) differences..just reviewing and this caught my eye. I wonder if anything was going on then that might be relevant now..total speculation and moo.

 

[Dudly]

As I said before, the charges and arrest of JM is all smoke and mirrors to take attention off the searches on the W's property. There is where it is all at.

They did not go in like gang busters with SWAT and drug task force and 30 cars of LE for no reason. They absolutely believed they would find something, and they may have. We know they took a trailer belonging to JW or as I suspect, his parents. What else did they take? What did they take from the CCR horse ranch?

Then you have the W's selling out and pulling a disappearing act leaving a bunch of stuff behind. My gut tells me the W's, all of them, are in this up to their necks.


They don't want their witnesses cross-examined at this point,'' said Bougler of Chillocothe. "This was an unsuccessful strategy to put pressure on him."

JM knows something and they know he knows. I believe that something is about the decades long criminal activity in the area. Then there is the ones who sold him that truck. LE says it was used as a means to commit aggravated murder. You can't overlook that fact either. LE is coming right out and saying this truck was involved in the murders. So who was driving it that night? JM did not own it at that time, but he could have borrowed it from someone.

If they had anything useful on JW, they would not have left him leave the state. They apparently have nothing on him that would hold up in court.

 

[WBF]

Have a question..(and thank all of you for your willingness to answer stupid questions!) JM's case is going to a grand jury, which my understanding is, grand juries decide if there is indeed a case to be tried, correct? I know know much about law. He was arrested for basically destroying a gps system..this requires a grand jury? Yes?! How lost am I? I DON'T know much about law, big typo.

grand juries hear evidence from the prosecutor to decide if there is enough evidence and probable cause to warrant criminal charges or an indictment. they can advise that currently they don't feel the evidence is sufficient and ask to see more evidence. grand juries typically deal with felonies.

 

[Betty P]

If they had anything useful on JW, they would not have left him leave the state. They apparently have nothing on him that would hold up in court.

Remember, witnesses stated there was a SWAT vehicle in the convoy that conducted raids at Flying W Farms. It was leaked, then retracted by Franklin County SO that they sent a SWAT vehicle for the raid and it was in service of an arrest warrant.

DeWine & Reader quickly hushed that up, but the neighbor of Flying W saw the SWAT vehicle. They must have had some kind of evidence to justify a warrant.

Question about the raid & JW and family leaving town:

If JW was under surveillance in anticipation of serving an arrest & search warrant, who would be conducting the surveillance? He lived in Adams Co. Would they be responsible for helping Pike County keep an eye on JW? Would it have been BCI's job? Which LE agency dropped the ball and let JW leave town just prior to a massive search and possible arrest?

 

[Hapworth]

If its true that DR was shot five times in the face according to LM,
someone must have really hated her. 5 shots to the chest (heart) area would have done the job I would think...but the face says alot if true. Of course the face includes the mouth.....

Sent from my SCH-I605 using Tapatalk

 

[Agent.99]

JM and his family's safety are now at risk. The killers are out, free. JM is going to have to go into a secret GJ where he will be forced to answer any question the prosecutor asks or risk going to jail for the tampering/vandalism charge. The killers are likely afraid he will finally talk and may assume it would be easier to get rid of him before he's forced to testify.

And LE doesn't seem at all concerned about the safety of him or his family.

Right now I am leaning towards they probably aren't in any danger. I've heard it said many times before that it appeared there was one target and the rest were killed because of what they knew. I always took that to mean, if just one was killed, when LE asked the rest if knew of any fights or or arguments that could have led up to this, none would have hesitated to answer honestly and point the investigation in the right direction. The same does not appear to be true of BJM or JM. Even if they were not involved in any way, I believe at the very least they have a very good idea who was. And no doubt, whoever was involved, is going to be a relative in some way. I occasionally volunteer to help adopted persons find there bio families. The Appellations are notoriously difficult cases to work. Everyone in the area is related to each other by blood or marriage. If you go back a couple of generations, Every family had a dozen kids. And all of their kids had a dozen and so on. So lets say I am person X born in 1920. One of my maternal cousins married one of my paternal cousins. My niece married one of my husbands cousin's, My sister's brother in law married my husband's sister. Fast forward to 2016, and you have families who are connected ten different ways. So no matter how you slice it, if the person is local, it is going to be a relative of some form. If the M's are not being forthright, and they are not involved, then I think it's possible that the person or persons who did do this, have be somehow close to them.

I think DS is probably not involved but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he helped himself to money or stash which may explain a rift.
When I saw who stayed in contact with JW I thought it was strange, too. Maybe they don't want to lose contact in hopes of maintaining some form of loose contact with S? I know SM doesn't ever paint a complete picture but I did notice that DR seemed to be close with JM and AM but not so much with BJM.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

JM and his family's safety are now at risk. The killers are out, free. JM is going to have to go into a secret GJ where he will be forced to answer any question the prosecutor asks or risk going to jail for the tampering/vandalism charge. The killers are likely afraid he will finally talk and may assume it would be easier to get rid of him before he's forced to testify.

And LE doesn't seem at all concerned about the safety of him or his family.

The W's had better cut short their "vacation" and get back to Ohio to get a plea deal.

 

[Dudly]

Remember, witnesses stated there was a SWAT vehicle in the convoy that conducted raids at Flying W Farms. It was leaked, then retracted by Franklin County SO that they sent a SWAT vehicle for the raid and it was in service of an arrest warrant.

DeWine & Reader quickly hushed that up, but the neighbor of Flying W saw the SWAT vehicle. They must have had some kind of evidence to justify a warrant.

Question about the raid & JW and family leaving town:

If JW was under surveillance in anticipation of serving an arrest & search warrant, who would be conducting the surveillance? He lived in Adams Co. Would they be responsible for helping Pike County keep an eye on JW? Would it have been BCI's job? Which LE agency dropped the ball and let JW leave town just prior to a massive search and possible arrest?

The SWAT people were for more personnel to search a large area. No reason to believe they thought there would be a shoot out or something. A warrant means they got a judge to believe there was probable cause to believe something might be found. Why do you think they under surveillance for an arrest warrant? BCI is running the investigation so they are responsible for any surveillance. I do not believe that anyone dropped the ball and JW escaped. I think they decided to do the search AFTER JW left town and they had access to what was in the trailers. We do not know what they used as a reason to do the search or if they found anything at all that has to do with the case. For all we know everyone in the whole state is as guilty as anyone the police are investigating.

 

[Dudly]

Right now I am leaning towards they probably aren't in any danger. I've heard it said many times before that it appeared there was one target and the rest were killed because of what they knew. I always took that to mean, if just one was killed, when LE asked the rest if knew of any fights or or arguments that could have led up to this, none would have hesitated to answer honestly and point the investigation in the right direction. The same does not appear to be true of BJM or JM. Even if they were not involved in any way, I believe at the very least they have a very good idea who was. And no doubt, whoever was involved, is going to be a relative in some way. I occasionally volunteer to help adopted persons find there bio families. The Appellations are notoriously difficult cases to work. Everyone in the area is related to each other by blood or marriage. If you go back a couple of generations, Every family had a dozen kids. And all of their kids had a dozen and so on. So lets say I am person X born in 1920. One of my maternal cousins married one of my paternal cousins. My niece married one of my husbands cousin's, My sister's brother in law married my husband's sister. Fast forward to 2016, and you have families who are connected ten different ways. So no matter how you slice it, if the person is local, it is going to be a relative of some form. If the M's are not being forthright, and they are not involved, then I think it's possible that the person or persons who did do this, have be somehow close to them.

I think DS is probably not involved but I wouldn't be surprised in the least if he helped himself to money or stash which may explain a rift.
When I saw who stayed in contact with JW I thought it was strange, too. Maybe they don't want to lose contact in hopes of maintaining some form of loose contact with S? I know SM doesn't ever paint a complete picture but I did notice that DR seemed to be close with JM and AM but not so much with BJM.

I know a small town like you describe. Everyone there is a blood relative or an in law to some one. I have always thought DS helped himself to something that day be it cash or stash.

 

[Betty P]

The W's had better cut short their "vacation" and get back to Ohio to get a plea deal.

:back: :copcar:

 

[JusMeJim]

In regards to JM's truck and it's association with "a murder". Has it actually been stated that this was used in association with the Rhoden murders or "just a murder"?

 

[Dudly]

In regards to JM's truck and it's association with "a murder". Has it actually been stated that this was used in association with the Rhoden murders or "just a murder"?

"a murder" Everything is secret.

 

[Betty P]

In regards to JM's truck and it's association with "a murder". Has it actually been stated that this was used in association with the Rhoden murders or "just a murder"?

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/new...assacre-more-search-details-emerge/101713414/

No, it didn't. It stated the truck was used in the commission of a crime of aggravated murder or was in the possession of a person who intended to use it in the commission of said crime. Doesn't specifically mention Rhoden murders.

It's rather vague and catch-all, most likely used to convince a judge to grant permission for the SW and meet the guidelines for issuing one.

 

[rsd1200]

Sounds very possible. The secrecy involved in this investigation is beyond anything I've ever seen. What do you think is driving the secrecy and delays?

1 Possible ongoing undercover investigation into organized crime in the area (drugs, MJ, car theft, money laundering, etc.) Keeping the case quiet until they're ready to lower the boom. May have undercover agents at risk.

2 Political - Case is taking longer to solve than they thought, is getting touchy. Sweep it under the rug until after the 2018 election and give the guvner time to re-establish his PR campaign for 2020

3 Boss Hog - Keeping evidence under wraps and applying pressure to pin it on local underlings in local criminal networks to avoid exposing any local powerful interests who are part of the underground crime network

4 Combination of any of the above or something else?????

ETA: Regarding friends on social media, some of it may be the old "keep your friends close and your enemies closer" rationale?

BBM
This could be very true. At any rate, it's what I would try and do, either no matter what side of the fence I was on. If I were the assailant, I'd not unfriend a solitary soul. If I suspected someone of murdering my family, I'd play it low key, and remain on any s.m. list of anyone who I thought, may have murdered my family. Side note: JW's new, EW s.m. account, now includes close members to the R, M, and G, families. :thinking:

 

[Agent.99]

I can't find the post to reply with quotes but someone recently mentioned the odd circumstance of three people changing plans that night. D.S. not staying with KR, HG's sister not staying with her and KR not staying with HR. Assuming nothing hinkey involved, I can not imagine the survivor's guilt they each must have felt, or still feel along with the relief of being spared.

 

[cds0902]

I live in Grove City about 45 minutes north of Piketon, My husband and I have traveled route 23 frequently to visit family in Kentucky, We were traveling route 23 on the same day the murders occurred. It is not unusual to be held up in Waverly or any where along 23 for a random drug check.