OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #28

[Dudly]

Yeah it's a bit uncanny about the other Reader, also how they were quite silent on anything regarding the case. Pike county seems to have a lot of murders. I read an article that they tried to get the items out of the well but the way they did it, caused too much pressure and pushed them further down. They're going to try and dig a hole beside that well, go down that one and dig across. This article describes a bit better how the guy found the items and how they're going to try and retrieve them. It's OT but it just interested me b/c there were some similarities. I'm sure that's not the only little well in Pike county, either. :thinking:

http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=x1eglFcV

Any of this sound familiar? Apparently murder investigations in Pike County are secrets....
Investigators haven’t named a suspect and won’t tell whether they know why the murders happened.


The case is still unsolved and the Pike County Sheriff’s Office and the Ohio Attorney General’s Office had shelved it years ago....

The search warrant was sealed, according to the clerk’s office, which means the public cannot see what investigators were after and why they were there.

“Stuff’s been covered up long enough here and it’s time to get some answers out of here,” Francis said.


We could not confirm whether investigators were ever able to retrieve the evidence from the Wynn Road well. Pike County Clerk of Court records show three other search warrants were served at the home on Nov. 10 and Nov. 14, 2016.


Those warrants, as the one from July 2016, are sealed and the details of those searches are being kept secret by court order, the clerk’s office confirmed.

Since the Ohio Attorney General’s Office posted the Hopper Road cold case article, no information has been released on the investigation into the murders.


Dr. Smith, who said part of his expertise was criminal profiling, would not answer questions about whether his work on the Hopper Road case had resulted in a criminal profile of a potential suspect or whether he’s developed a motive for the killings.

“No comment,” was Smith’s answer to that question. “That’s a critical piece of information we’re not at liberty to discuss,” Smith added.


“Do the names James Howes, Robin Howes, Kevin Prater—do those names mean anything to this case,” Jody Barr asked the task force. “Again, I’m not at liberty to discuss any names in the case that we’re looking at, actively looking at or in the past looked at, it’s not happening,” Reader said.


We asked the task force about the Eric Horn proffer and whether any of that information was useful. “No comment,” Smith responded.


We also asked the task force about the discovery of the well by the Francis family last July, about the photographs of the rifle, handgun, and burned clothing Paul Francis said was in the well shaft. Dr. Smith responded, “No comment.”

 

[Betty P]

Yeah it's a bit uncanny about the other Reader, also how they were quite silent on anything regarding the case. Pike county seems to have a lot of murders. I read an article that they tried to get the items out of the well but the way they did it, caused too much pressure and pushed them further down. They're going to try and dig a hole beside that well, go down that one and dig across. This article describes a bit better how the guy found the items and how they're going to try and retrieve them. It's OT but it just interested me b/c there were some similarities. I'm sure that's not the only little well in Pike county, either. :thinking:

http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=x1eglFcV

Very informative link. It reveals how murder cases in Pike Co are handled (or not handled). Very revealing.

At first glance, it would be easy to dismiss these numerous unsolved cases as a result of negligence or incompetence. The problem with that theory is the fact the "bungled" investigations go all the way up the chain from local LE and prosecutor to BCI to the AG's office. Surely every agency at the top of Ohio legal and justice system isn't grossly incompetent.

The "idiot/lazy" theory also doesn't explain

why there are so many of these "cold" cases

why the process is so similar

why they all end up in grand juries without prosecution

why all information about them remains hidden from public scrutiny

why there's little or no further investigation when new evidence is uncovered

Some interesting quotes from the article:

STATE OFFERS DEAL TO MAN FOR INFORMATION IN HOPPER ROAD MURDERS

“The Pike County Sheriff’s Office followed up on numerous leads and completed a thorough investigation, however, not enough information was obtained to solve this homicide,” the Attorney General’s Office wrote in the article about the Hopper Road case on its cold case web site.

BBM

So they have co-conspirators to this murder in prison (who write letters to family (and the news media) explaining in detail how the murders took place and who was involved) giving this info to the AG's office to get a better deal on other crimes. And the AG's office does nothing with the information. Says Prosecutor Junk & AG DeWine thought it "wasn't enough", when the letter the reporter read have explicit details.

And this quote. Again.

“STUFF’S BEEN COVERED UP LONG ENOUGH HERE”

When someone finds key evidence to solve the case (the weapons) the Pike Co Sheriff's office "bungles" the recovery of it.

SMH.

It's a template for bungling and burying investigations oddly similar to the Rhoden case. Just send it to the grand jury.

 

[Betty P]

Any of this sound familiar? Apparently murder investigations in Pike County are secrets....
Investigators haven’t named a suspect and won’t tell whether they know why the murders happened.


The case is still unsolved and the Pike County Sheriff’s Office and the Ohio Attorney General’s Office had shelved it years ago....

The search warrant was sealed, according to the clerk’s office, which means the public cannot see what investigators were after and why they were there.

“Stuff’s been covered up long enough here and it’s time to get some answers out of here,” Francis said.


We could not confirm whether investigators were ever able to retrieve the evidence from the Wynn Road well. Pike County Clerk of Court records show three other search warrants were served at the home on Nov. 10 and Nov. 14, 2016.


Those warrants, as the one from July 2016, are sealed and the details of those searches are being kept secret by court order, the clerk’s office confirmed.

Since the Ohio Attorney General’s Office posted the Hopper Road cold case article, no information has been released on the investigation into the murders.


Dr. Smith, who said part of his expertise was criminal profiling, would not answer questions about whether his work on the Hopper Road case had resulted in a criminal profile of a potential suspect or whether he’s developed a motive for the killings.

“No comment,” was Smith’s answer to that question. “That’s a critical piece of information we’re not at liberty to discuss,” Smith added.


“Do the names James Howes, Robin Howes, Kevin Prater—do those names mean anything to this case,” Jody Barr asked the task force. “Again, I’m not at liberty to discuss any names in the case that we’re looking at, actively looking at or in the past looked at, it’s not happening,” Reader said.


We asked the task force about the Eric Horn proffer and whether any of that information was useful. “No comment,” Smith responded.


We also asked the task force about the discovery of the well by the Francis family last July, about the photographs of the rifle, handgun, and burned clothing Paul Francis said was in the well shaft. Dr. Smith responded, “No comment.”

This case is 11 years cold. It reeks of a cover up.

I'm also having a hard time understanding how an elderly, low income woman is a crime boss capable of ordering the execution of two people. What was the motive for these murders? What criminal activity is behind these executions? Please don't say "hillbilly justice", that's not a complete answer. People have motives for killing each other, it's not for sport. They have to be angry for a reason.

ETA: Found the motive:

The investigator wrote, “Just as in the Shope murder, there was a disagreement between the victim and the Howes posse over the non-payment of drug money.”

http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=x1eglFcV&pn=&ps=#display

We've discussed before the possibility the Rhoden case is dragging on so long is because of an ongoing investigation of larger drug operations. This cover up is over 10 years old. How long do these undercover investigations last?

 

[jk204]

Yeah it's a bit uncanny about the other Reader, also how they were quite silent on anything regarding the case. Pike county seems to have a lot of murders. I read an article that they tried to get the items out of the well but the way they did it, caused too much pressure and pushed them further down. They're going to try and dig a hole beside that well, go down that one and dig across. This article describes a bit better how the guy found the items and how they're going to try and retrieve them. It's OT but it just interested me b/c there were some similarities. I'm sure that's not the only little well in Pike county, either. :thinking:

http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=x1eglFcV

Have a real good look at the two locations mentioned on hopper road and the red house with the well.

I would not want drug dealers around my place or around my family

 

[rsd1200]

This case is 11 years cold. It reeks of a cover up.

I'm also having a hard time understanding how an elderly, low income woman is a crime boss capable of ordering the execution of two people. What was the motive for these murders? What criminal activity is behind these executions? Please don't say "hillbilly justice", that's not a complete answer. People have motives for killing each other, it's not for sport. They have to be angry for a reason.

ETA: Found the motive:



http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=x1eglFcV&pn=&ps=#display

We've discussed before the possibility the Rhoden case is dragging on so long is because of an ongoing investigation of larger drug operations. This cover up is over 10 years old. How long do these undercover investigations last?

I'm one of the hillbilly justice folks. :dance: lol When I say "hillbilly justice" it's my way of saying folks took the law into their own hands over a slight (large or small). Could be because they couldn't take it to the law, b/c they'd end up in jail themselves over what the slight was, so they decide they'll handle it and try to not get caught (seems that's working in Pike County), or it was so heinous, that they became so angry that they didn't feel LE was doing anything to resolve it, so they take it into their own hands. There's always a reason at the root of it. As for the elderly woman, there are matriarchs who call the shots in some families. Women can be just as dangerous, if not more, than some men.

Good to see you back!

 

[jk204]

This case is 11 years cold. It reeks of a cover up.

I'm also having a hard time understanding how an elderly, low income woman is a crime boss capable of ordering the execution of two people. What was the motive for these murders? What criminal activity is behind these executions? Please don't say "hillbilly justice", that's not a complete answer. People have motives for killing each other, it's not for sport. They have to be angry for a reason.

ETA: Found the motive:



http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=x1eglFcV&pn=&ps=#display

We've discussed before the possibility the Rhoden case is dragging on so long is because of an ongoing investigation of larger drug operations. This cover up is over 10 years old. How long do these undercover investigations last?

What is hillbilly justice to you?

To some people, it would be saving lives by taking care of the dealer trying to sell dope to their kids.

 

[Betty P]

What is hillbilly justice to you?

To some people, it would be saving lives by taking care of the dealer trying to sell dope to their kids.

According to the news story, the Howes family members who killed these people were angry because the victim owed them money for drugs. The killers and the mother who "ordered" their murder were selling drugs. Yet they remain free. I guess in all those searches LE did and subsequent investigation, confessions, etc. they never found any evidence of drug dealing by the Howes family, even though they as much as admitted it was over a "drug deal gone bad". Amazing, with all the hard work Pike County LE does, they never seem to find anything.

The "hillbilly justice" was nothing more than drug dealers killing people who owed them money. Many witnesses admitted it, but there are no prosecutions for the murder or the drug dealing. Maybe the DOJ, FBI and DEA need to come in and show them how it's done.

 

[rsd1200]

According to the news story, the Howes family members who killed these people were angry because the victim owed them money for drugs. The killers and the mother who "ordered" their murder were selling drugs. Yet they remain free. I guess in all those searches LE did and subsequent investigation, confessions, etc. they never found any evidence of drug dealing by the Howes family, even though they as much as admitted it was over a "drug deal gone bad". Amazing, with all the hard work Pike County LE does, they never seem to find anything.

The "hillbilly justice" was nothing more than drug dealers killing people who owed them money. Many witnesses admitted it, but there are no prosecutions for the murder or the drug dealing. Maybe the DOJ, FBI and DEA need to come in and show them how it's done.

While it is wrong, and I think that LE doesn't much care b/c it's folks dying over drugs, in this case, it's hillbilly justice. Could they go to court to get their money back? A son or daughter dies, and the family is sure it was b/c of drugs, so they go to the person(s) they think were responsible, family or not, and they mete out their own justice.

 

[Betty P]

While it is wrong, and I think that LE doesn't much care b/c it's folks dying over drugs, in this case, it's hillbilly justice. Could they go to court to get their money back? A son or daughter dies, and the family is sure it was b/c of drugs, so they go to the person(s) they think were responsible, family or not, and they mete out their own justice.

When it involves drug dealing and murder, hillbilly justice is illegal. It should be prosecuted, not covered up. That's the responsibility of law enforcement and the criminal justice system. This region leads the nation in drug deaths and there's no indication that there are competent leaders there who can get things under control.

Someone needs to shine a national spotlight on the problems here. Widespread drug dealing, organized crime, possible corruption in LE and the courts. Jody Barr and others are finally making progress, but we need national news media to get involved. It's time for outside LE to get involved and clean up this mess. This can't continue, it's unacceptable.


ETA: Slightly off topic, but is anyone familiar with the people serving on the Pike County Major Crimes Task Force? We know Reader is Charlie's brother, but who are the other experts? A quick internet search reveals nothing about the two doctors. Anyone familiar with their curriculum vitae? Experience? Connections in the field of law enforcement? Just curious.

 

[jk204]

According to the news story, the Howes family members who killed these people were angry because the victim owed them money for drugs. The killers and the mother who "ordered" their murder were selling drugs. Yet they remain free. I guess in all those searches LE did and subsequent investigation, confessions, etc. they never found any evidence of drug dealing by the Howes family, even though they as much as admitted it was over a "drug deal gone bad". Amazing, with all the hard work Pike County LE does, they never seem to find anything.

The "hillbilly justice" was nothing more than drug dealers killing people who owed them money. Many witnesses admitted it, but there are no prosecutions for the murder or the drug dealing. Maybe the DOJ, FBI and DEA need to come in and show them how it's done.

That what Jody Barr's story says. It is not necessarily what happened. The investigator noted there was a drug debt, it doesn't mean the owed killed the owing.

If it was that simple, this case would have been prosecuted. But it wasn't.

Personnally, what I found the most interesting in this story is the location.

 

[jk204]

A lot happening in the area:

http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/?p=1262

*http://wkkj.iheart.com/articles/local-news-stories-106759/two-arrested-in-piketon-14145845/

We are a bit off topic. I mention it to give context. In case you haven't seen it.

 

[Betty P]

A lot happening in the area:

http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/?p=1262

*http://wkkj.iheart.com/articles/local-news-stories-106759/two-arrested-in-piketon-14145845/

We are a bit off topic. I mention it to give context. In case you haven't seen it.

Potemkin investigations? Busting a few small fry in order to control the situation?

 

[jk204]

Potemkin investigations? Busting a few small fry in order to control the situation?

It's not the point. . You need a map. I cant say more within ToS.

Regarding the Curtis and Burgette story,
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...Unsolved-Homicides-Jennifer-Burgette-and-Curt

 

[Betty P]

It's not the point. . You need a map. I cant say more within ToS.

Regarding the Curtis and Burgette story,
http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/...Unsolved-Homicides-Jennifer-Burgette-and-Curt

It appears there was enough evidence long ago to make arrests and pursue prosecution in the Burgette/Francis murders. Why hasn't that been done? It doesn't bode well for the Rhoden murders, at all.

What do you mean by needing a map? Yes, those murders in 2006 took place in an area near the Rhoden murders. Yes some of the same people may be involved and it's possibly linked to an extensive organized crime network. People who live in the Pike County area may have grown accustomed to being told these and other cases "can't be solved", but similar cases, some with less evidence, are solved every day of the week in the rest of the US. Pike County is no different.

ETA: The statement at the Ohio AG web site you linked to is incorrect. Jody Barr's article of May 1 clearly presents written testimony to LE officers and BCI from several people who name the killers of Burgette & Francis back in 2007 & 2008. How can DeWine say officials don't know who killed them? Why is he asking for people to come forward when those who have that information have already done so?

 

[GoofyJen]

It appears there was enough evidence long ago to make arrests and pursue prosecution in the Burgette/Francis murders. Why hasn't that been done? It doesn't bode well for the Rhoden murders, at all.

What do you mean by needing a map? Yes, those murders in 2006 took place in an area near the Rhoden murders. Yes some of the same people may be involved and it's possibly linked to an extensive organized crime network. People who live in the Pike County area may have grown accustomed to being told these and other cases "can't be solved", but similar cases, some with less evidence, are solved every day of the week in the rest of the US. Pike County is no different.

ETA: The statement at the Ohio AG web site you linked to is incorrect. Jody Barr's article of May 1 clearly presents written testimony to LE officers and BCI from several people who name the killers of Burgette & Francis back in 2007 & 2008. How can DeWine say officials don't know who killed them? Why is he asking for people to come forward when those who have that information have already done so?

Regarding Dewine's statement, I agree. But, it's not that the statement or the link (which is how that read to me) is incorrect, it's that he boldfaced lied about not having witness statements or evidence. The AG's office isn't making me feel very confident about the level of professionalism in our State LE.

 

[rsd1200]

When it involves drug dealing and murder, hillbilly justice is illegal. It should be prosecuted, not covered up. That's the responsibility of law enforcement and the criminal justice system. This region leads the nation in drug deaths and there's no indication that there are competent leaders there who can get things under control.

Someone needs to shine a national spotlight on the problems here. Widespread drug dealing, organized crime, possible corruption in LE and the courts. Jody Barr and others are finally making progress, but we need national news media to get involved. It's time for outside LE to get involved and clean up this mess. This can't continue, it's unacceptable.


ETA: Slightly off topic, but is anyone familiar with the people serving on the Pike County Major Crimes Task Force? We know Reader is Charlie's brother, but who are the other experts? A quick internet search reveals nothing about the two doctors. Anyone familiar with their curriculum vitae? Experience? Connections in the field of law enforcement? Just curious.

Murder is wrong no matter who is doing the killing, that's why I'm against the death penalty. In "hillbilly justice" they're meting out the punishment themselves, rather than trusting that the law will do so (or they can't go to the law to do so). There's a lot of corrupt law enforcement out there and stuff gets covered up, or they just don't care, and people get to a point that they take it into their own hands. I'm not saying it is right, but I can understand their feelings, if they know who killed a loved one, (or who rooked them out of their life savings), but that person walks scot-free b/c the powers that be are doing zip.

One thing I will say, if one decides to run with the bad, big, dogs, then they better be prepared to defend themselves, or understand that they could see an early grave. It is not a game. They will kill you and not bat an eye.

 

[rsd1200]

A lot happening in the area:

http://wp2.pikecosheriff.com/?p=1262

*http://wkkj.iheart.com/articles/local-news-stories-106759/two-arrested-in-piketon-14145845/

We are a bit off topic. I mention it to give context. In case you haven't seen it.

Thangs that make ya go hmmmm.

 

[Flatbush]

I am sitting here, trying to quit smoking, but yet, the seen can't be unseen.
And I am sober.
Now, guns are made of heavy metal. Can someone explain to me how they are going to get a gun to float? With a fire truck of water?
AND if there was any DNA on them clothes, water is gonna ruin it! Oh my head.

 

[abeaman02]

Very interesting as well. I'm thinking, when the W's bought this property originally, it may have been paid for in cash. If you don't owe anything on a property, losing $10,000 doesn't really seem that big of a deal if you're getting 165K cash in hand. Depending on how frugal and disciplined you are with money, you can live on that for a few years.

I agree although it shows they paid off the $75,000 at closing since it was attached to the house and if they paid closing costs it would leave them with quite a bit less

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AmhUxzdCU7IOga5N2s2OjfisoFdfoA

 

[rsd1200]

I am sitting here, trying to quit smoking, but yet, the seen can't be unseen.
And I am sober.
Now, guns are made of heavy metal. Can someone explain to me how they are going to get a gun to float? With a fire truck of water?
AND if there was any DNA on them clothes, water is gonna ruin it! Oh my head.

Someone was clearly not thinking, or maybe the were. That amount of pressure was just too much. Seems drilling the well out (like they're talking about NOW) would have been the better option. Remember when Baby Jessica got stuck in that well? She was just a little thing. They didn't use a fire hose to blow her out of there, iirc...