OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #28

[RAISINISBACK]

O/T! Non smoker 2 weeks yesterday! :loveyou:

They say that water flushes the nicotine from your system faster cutting down on cravings.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Quit cold turkey November 2004.Couldn't afford it any more then. Don't know how some people do it now.... Have had only a sip or two of alcohol since that time also... Don't miss either one...

Alcohol wouldn't be a problem for me. I can't stand the smell of it.

 

[Betty P]

Put one cigarette with a lighter on top of your monitor so you don't back yourself into a corner and get desperate. Buy some chewing gum and get a 2 liter soda bottle, fill it with water. Every time you want a cigarette take a huge drink put some gum in your mouth, take a long look at the cigarette and count how many hours you have made it without one. Then try to make it just one more hour. My sister stopped that way.

I don't have a solution for being sober. LOL

Sounds like a good suggestion for weight loss, too.

 

[Dudly]

Same. 7$ a pack was ridiculous. I put them down and that was it. I do have a drink now and then but it's not something I do on a daily or even weekly basis. I've cut way back on drinking pop too (and I love pop).

I quit caffeinated soda the same time I quit smoking which was the same time I moved to a new house. It was rough at first....

 

[rsd1200]

I quit caffeinated soda the same time I quit smoking which was the same time I moved to a new house. It was rough at first....

I'm like Raisin. I dearly love pop. Especially ice cold pop. I used to go through a 24 pk in no time flat. I limit my intake to two per day now. Sometimes I'll drink one extra but not often. I have to admit I feel better. Water is my drink of choice now, but tbh, I still love my two pops a day. :loveyou:

 

[Flatbush]

just want to make a note that Charles Reader was appointed shortly before the murders to fill the role of sheriff after some turmoil and issues involving his predecessor. He was sworn in after being elected last fall.

I don't want the casual reader here to assume that discussion of an unsolved case in Pike county 11 years ago happened on his watch.

Yes this is quite true. In fact, Reader becoming Sheriff is a breath of fresh air to Pike County. He really is very devoted, and not a quitter.

 

[Flatbush]

Put one cigarette with a lighter on top of your monitor so you don't back yourself into a corner and get desperate. Buy some chewing gum and get a 2 liter soda bottle, fill it with water. Every time you want a cigarette take a huge drink put some gum in your mouth, take a long look at the cigarette and count how many hours you have made it without one. Then try to make it just one more hour. My sister stopped that way.

I don't have a solution for being sober. LOL

Thanks for the thoughts. Been smoking too long, have about got it beat with the help of a vapor pen. Far as drinking, I don't, other than ice water and iced tea. I just throw the booze in there to emphasize my frustration...like with the well....
What a visual.

 

[Jennifer17]

Yes this is quite true. In fact, Reader becoming Sheriff is a breath of fresh air to Pike County. He really is very devoted, and not a quitter.

So, are sheriffs who are elected have to have any LE experience?

 

[RichP]

Originally Posted by tlcya
​"just want to make a note that Charles Reader was appointed shortly before the murders to fill the role of sheriff after some turmoil and issues involving his predecessor. He was sworn in after being elected last fall.

I don't want the casual reader here to assume that discussion of an unsolved case in Pike county 11 years ago happened on his watch."


While it is certainly true that Sheriff Reader wasn't in office at the time of the Hopper Rd murders and therefore can't be held accountable for the original investigation he sure as heck was Sheriff a year ago when this new information came to light.

From the looks of it it's being handled the same way as the Rhoden's case.

1] No comment
2] Records sealed
3] "On going" investigation [ya, right]
4] Basically, let's stall until it goes away

If those four people who answered Barr's questions are the Pike County Major Crime Squad than Pike County is in trouble. I can smell the stink emanating from Rob Junk's office all the way to where I live [and it's far to the east, out of state]. Good God, one of the members was the deputy whose report cleared the Howes of fault in the Eric Horn attack.

That part of the great state of Ohio is proving to be a cesspool.

 

[rsd1200]

So, are sheriffs who are elected have to have any LE experience?

Ohio 311.01 Election and qualifications of sheriff.

http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/311.01

 

[Margo/Mom]

I'm one of the hillbilly justice folks. :dance: lol When I say "hillbilly justice" it's my way of saying folks took the law into their own hands over a slight (large or small). Could be because they couldn't take it to the law, b/c they'd end up in jail themselves over what the slight was, so they decide they'll handle it and try to not get caught (seems that's working in Pike County), or it was so heinous, that they became so angry that they didn't feel LE was doing anything to resolve it, so they take it into their own hands. There's always a reason at the root of it. As for the elderly woman, there are matriarchs who call the shots in some families. Women can be just as dangerous, if not more, than some men.

Good to see you back!

In my experience, there may be some families who carry out justice for certain injustices that they don't care to involve LE with. And I would be suggesting crimes such as rape or the violation of a child, where they wish to protect the victim from all that might be involved in a public trial, etc.

But, this differs from what some refer to as "gang behavior," which is also generally misunderstood by many who throw the term around. I agree with Betty. People generally kill for a reason. I bring in the gang terminology because many assume that urban gang members simply "go off" on one another at the drop of a hat or in some macho demonstration. The reality is that contemporary gangs, like crime families or syndicates of some decades back, organize around criminal enterprise. Their "business" endeavors are illegal, and therefore they have no recourse to LE when they are wronged by others who steal from them or infringe on their territory. The specific criminal enterprise has varied over time, inclusive of prostitution, gambling, alcohol sales or production or recently a variety of drugs or illicit substances. Sometimes law enforcement is complicit, sometimes not, and for a variety of reasons (such as being paid off, but also through "containment" policies that allowed illegal behaviors in certain areas in order to keep them out of other areas). The presence of a "grow op," as well as fighting *advertiser censored* (not to mention involvement in demolition derbies which often attract gambling), not to mention the number of victims, certainly suggests to me that the Rhoden murders relate to organized illegal behavior.

I'm not close enough to have any opinion whatsoever about specifics of who the players might be. But the suggestion of "hillbilly justice" is one that I find to be simplistic and rather offensive (in the same way that the dismissive terminology "gang-related" is).

 

[Margo/Mom]

This case is 11 years cold. It reeks of a cover up.

I'm also having a hard time understanding how an elderly, low income woman is a crime boss capable of ordering the execution of two people. What was the motive for these murders? What criminal activity is behind these executions? Please don't say "hillbilly justice", that's not a complete answer. People have motives for killing each other, it's not for sport. They have to be angry for a reason.

ETA: Found the motive:



http://m.fox19.com/fox19/db_330522/contentdetail.htm?full=true&contentguid=x1eglFcV&pn=&ps=#display

We've discussed before the possibility the Rhoden case is dragging on so long is because of an ongoing investigation of larger drug operations. This cover up is over 10 years old. How long do these undercover investigations last?

In Columbus not too long ago the court wrapped up convictions related to the Short North Posse--a local drug distribution gang. This article, from 2014 covered the announcement of indictments and arrests. Murders included dated back to 1998.

So--while I know nothing about the 10 year old Pike County case--it is within the realm of possibility, depending on the size of the outfit being investigated that it might take quite some time for things to come to a head. And it may well involve a lot of dealing--that is someone picked up for driving (or being in) a car with a smallish amount of marijuana for sale who is willing to provide information about someone more valuable in exchange for dropping portions of the charges against them (say resisting arrest and weapon possession). I continue to believe that the Rhoden case will prove to have a lot of moving parts. And possibly that whoever pulled the triggers may not even be the biggest fish that LE is going after.

http://www.10tv.com/article/prosecu...rs-shootings-linked-short-north-posse-members

 

[Margo/Mom]

Originally Posted by tlcya
​"just want to make a note that Charles Reader was appointed shortly before the murders to fill the role of sheriff after some turmoil and issues involving his predecessor. He was sworn in after being elected last fall.

I don't want the casual reader here to assume that discussion of an unsolved case in Pike county 11 years ago happened on his watch."


While it is certainly true that Sheriff Reader wasn't in office at the time of the Hopper Rd murders and therefore can't be held accountable for the original investigation he sure as heck was Sheriff a year ago when this new information came to light.

From the looks of it it's being handled the same way as the Rhoden's case.

1] No comment
2] Records sealed
3] "On going" investigation [ya, right]
4] Basically, let's stall until it goes away

If those four people who answered Barr's questions are the Pike County Major Crime Squad than Pike County is in trouble. I can smell the stink emanating from Rob Junk's office all the way to where I live [and it's far to the east, out of state]. Good God, one of the members was the deputy whose report cleared the Howes of fault in the Eric Horn attack.

That part of the great state of Ohio is proving to be a cesspool.

I'm not about to stand up for the morals or the effectiveness of LE in Pike Co--because I simply don't know. But I was interested enough to read through the Hopper Road article. It makes a good story. But, when it comes down to it, outside of whatever's down that well, I don't see that there's anything beyond he-said-she-said with regard to who shot john (or Jennifer and whomever). The statements are certainly of interest. Of course they come from people who were convicted of other things, which tends to destroy credibility. And the guy who discovered the well was digging around it for 3 days before notifying LE--which tends to throw a monkey wrench into things.

I'm willing to believe that the plumber's video might well provide a good look at a gun or two, but how on earth would anyone be able to identify burned clothing that had been under water for a decade based on a video? IOW, sometimes people see what they want to see. So, it's possible that a prosecutor has judged rightly that they don't have evidence to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Recall that once a jury says not guilty to a charge, it's done. No do-overs if something better shows up evidence-wise.

 

[rsd1200]

In my experience, there may be some families who carry out justice for certain injustices that they don't care to involve LE with. And I would be suggesting crimes such as rape or the violation of a child, where they wish to protect the victim from all that might be involved in a public trial, etc.

But, this differs from what some refer to as "gang behavior," which is also generally misunderstood by many who throw the term around. I agree with Betty. People generally kill for a reason. I bring in the gang terminology because many assume that urban gang members simply "go off" on one another at the drop of a hat or in some macho demonstration. The reality is that contemporary gangs, like crime families or syndicates of some decades back, organize around criminal enterprise. Their "business" endeavors are illegal, and therefore they have no recourse to LE when they are wronged by others who steal from them or infringe on their territory. The specific criminal enterprise has varied over time, inclusive of prostitution, gambling, alcohol sales or production or recently a variety of drugs or illicit substances. Sometimes law enforcement is complicit, sometimes not, and for a variety of reasons (such as being paid off, but also through "containment" policies that allowed illegal behaviors in certain areas in order to keep them out of other areas). The presence of a "grow op," as well as fighting *advertiser censored* (not to mention involvement in demolition derbies which often attract gambling), not to mention the number of victims, certainly suggests to me that the Rhoden murders relate to organized illegal behavior.

I'm not close enough to have any opinion whatsoever about specifics of who the players might be. But the suggestion of "hillbilly justice" is one that I find to be simplistic and rather offensive (in the same way that the dismissive terminology "gang-related" is).

Being born and raised in the region, this is the term that was always used when family went against family, or someone targeted another for, as you said, the death or harm, of/to a child. There wasn't/isn't a lot of law in some parts of the region at times and some were/are very crooked. You call for help after an accident and you'll wait for a long time. The counties are very poor and funding for LE is not the greatest, nor is there a lot of funds for anything else. Parts of my state are some of the poorest in the nation. I don't think folks should take the law into their own hands but it does seem that the law in many places are corrupt and folks feel they have nowhere to turn sometimes, and tempers rage. I am a redneck, I am a hillbilly, I am a hippie all rolled into one. I'm not offended by the term hillbilly justice, mountain justice, nor creek justice. It's happened within my own extended family. It's not something we shout from the rooftops nor speak of at family get togethers. It's horrible and it has hurt many people within that family and their family will never be knit back together. So if you think it's something we brag about it is not. It is something spoken in hushed tones, but it does happen. It's more like someone snaps and turns vigilante for awhile than of anything of which you spoke. Quite honestly folks get easily offended these days. As far as the Rhodens, I may be wrong but I don't see them as big growers, nor even doing much in *advertiser censored* fighting other than selling birds (that was an extremely small time *advertiser censored* raising endeavor), and the demo derbies is a really far stretch.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Being born and raised in the region, this is the term that was always used when family went against family, or someone targeted another for, as you said, the death or harm, of/to a child. There wasn't/isn't a lot of law in some parts of the region at times and some were/are very crooked. You call for help after an accident and you'll wait for a long time. The counties are very poor and funding for LE is not the greatest, nor is there a lot of funds for anything else. Parts of my state are some of the poorest in the nation. I don't think folks should take the law into their own hands but it does seem that the law in many places are corrupt and folks feel they have nowhere to turn sometimes, and tempers rage. I am a redneck, I am a hillbilly, I am a hippie all rolled into one. I'm not offended by the term hillbilly justice, mountain justice, nor creek justice. It's happened within my own extended family. It's not something we shout from the rooftops nor speak of at family get togethers. It's horrible and it has hurt many people within that family and their family will never be knit back together. So if you think it's something we brag about it is not. It is something spoken in hushed tones, but it does happen. It's more like someone snaps and turns vigilante for awhile than of anything of which you spoke. Quite honestly folks get easily offended these days. As far as the Rhodens, I may be wrong but I don't see them as big growers, nor even doing much in *advertiser censored* fighting other than selling birds (that was an extremely small time *advertiser censored* raising endeavor), and the demo derbies is a really far stretch.

I can see them as maybe victims of a drug trafficking ring they and JM and the W's were involved in along with some really tough characters further along the Highway 23 pipeline or maybe even involving the prior owners of that pickup truck. I think for whatever reason, CR1 and KR threatened to take the whole outfit down and that threat was passed on down the line.

One thing that weighs on my mind is the involvement with vehicles, cars, trucks, semi trucks, diesel mechanics, trucking companies, horse trailers, demo derbies. All the characters mentioned so far including the victims (excluding HR and HG and possibly CR2) have some involvement with one or more of these vehicle types. They either drive them, buy and sell them, fix them or own a trucking company or a horse ranch that engages in transport. Every avenue we head down leads to vehicles. When you put all that together with a Highway 23 pipeline, it fits like a hand in a glove (not OJ's obviously).

 

[rsd1200]

I can see them as maybe victims of a drug trafficking ring they and JM and the W's were involved in along with some really tough characters further along the Highway 23 pipeline or maybe even involving the prior owners of that pickup truck. I think for whatever reason, CR1 and KR threatened to take the whole outfit down and that threat was passed on down the line.

One thing that weighs on my mind is the involvement with vehicles, cars, trucks, semi trucks, diesel mechanics, trucking companies, horse trailers, demo derbies. All the characters mentioned so far including the victims (excluding HR and HG and possibly CR2) have some involvement with one or more of these vehicle types. They either drive them, buy and sell them, fix them or own a trucking company or a horse ranch that engages in transport. Every avenue we head down leads to vehicles. When you put all that together with a Highway 23 pipeline, it fits like a hand in a glove (not OJ's obviously).

I can see where that could be a possible theory but, car shows, mud runs, atv parks (property set up in the hills just to run your atvs up and down the hills and creeks), demo derbies, auto racing, bike rallies, etc... and the 23 pipeline are all over here too. This region, and further south, are well known for our love of our toys that go fast and watching others at events with their toys that go fast, look pretty, or plow through mud. I truly enjoy my vehicles, both the ones with four wheels and two. One thing I've heard for some time, that does go up our part of the 23 pipeline, is not drugs, but that drugs is what comes back down. I have no illegal dealings, and as I said it's just a rumor I've heard, unlike the Hillbilly Oxy Express from Greenup, Ky to the pill mill docs in Fla. That was truth.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I can see where that could be a possible theory but, car shows, mud runs, atv parks (property set up in the hills just to run your atvs up and down the hills and creeks), demo derbies, auto racing, bike rallies, etc... and the 23 pipeline are all over here too. This region, and further south, are well known for our love of our toys that go fast and watching others at events with their toys that go fast, look pretty, or plow through mud. I truly enjoy my vehicles, both the ones with four wheels and two. One thing I've heard for some time, that does go up our part of the 23 pipeline, is not drugs, but that drugs is what comes back down. I have no illegal dealings, and as I said it's just a rumor I've heard, unlike the Hillbilly Oxy Express from Greenup, Ky to the pill mill docs in Fla. That was truth.

I think I was misunderstood. What I meant was all the characters who have been mentioned in connection with this crime has some involvement with the transport area of vehicles, not necessarily in a sport arena. Maybe I can put it like this so my train of thought comes through more clearly.

CR1- bought vehicles and hauled them from auctions to fix and sell.
KR- worked on said vehicles and also hauled them from auctions.
DR- sold cars through FB and by other means.
FR- worked on cars and transported them to demo derbies.
GR- helped CR1 and KR working on cars.
JW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
GW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
JM- involved with/friends with people who own a trucking company who sold him a truck according to LE that was used in the commission of aggravated murder.
JW's parents- involved in animal husbandry involving the selling of animals to be transported via horse trailers.
JW's grandparents- well known for horse ranching involving the selling of horses who had to be transported to buyers via horse trailers and maybe semis that transport animals. .
Sellers of the pickup- owns a trucking company.

All these people had in common the transport of vehicles or the operating of transport vehicles.

Combine that with the huge amount of vehicles towed at the onset of this crime by LE of which some (we have no way of knowing if LE kept some of the vehicles) were returned to family.

Then you have the fact that the Highway 23 drug task force was at the searches of the W's property.

All of this points to there maybe having been a ring that used the hauling, buying, selling, transporting of goods ect as a means to traffic drugs along the Highway 23 corridor. The goods brought in to Pike county by others, processed out then transported further north or south via cars, trucks, semis, horse trailers.

OP mentioned that when they visited relatives they were stopped and searched by the Hwy 23 DTF. They said this was a regular occurrence.

If LE in Ohio hold true to LE everywhere then if CR1 and the others made frequent trips and were searched a number of times and nothing was found, then the task force would be used to seeing them and may not have stopped them to search them after a period of time.

I don't know if I am explaining this very well but hopefully my meaning comes through.

 

[rsd1200]

I think I was misunderstood. What I meant was all the characters who have been mentioned in connection with this crime has some involvement with the transport area of vehicles, not necessarily in a sport arena. Maybe I can put it like this so my train of thought comes through more clearly.

CR1- bought vehicles and hauled them from auctions to fix and sell.
KR- worked on said vehicles and also hauled them from auctions.
DR- sold cars through FB and by other means.
FR- worked on cars and transported them to demo derbies.
GR- helped CR1 and KR working on cars.
JW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
GW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
JM- involved with/friends with people who own a trucking company who sold him a truck according to LE that was used in the commission of aggravated murder.
JW's parents- involved in animal husbandry involving the selling of animals to be transported via horse trailers.
JW's grandparents- well known for horse ranching involving the selling of horses who had to be transported to buyers via horse trailers and maybe semis that transport animals. .
Sellers of the pickup- owns a trucking company.

All these people had in common the transport of vehicles or the operating of transport vehicles.

Combine that with the huge amount of vehicles towed at the onset of this crime by LE of which some (we have no way of knowing if LE kept some of the vehicles) were returned to family.

Then you have the fact that the Highway 23 drug task force was at the searches of the W's property.

All of this points to there maybe having been a ring that used the hauling, buying, selling, transporting of goods ect as a means to traffic drugs along the Highway 23 corridor. The goods brought in to Pike county by others, processed out then transported further north or south via cars, trucks, semis, horse trailers.

OP mentioned that when they visited relatives they were stopped and searched by the Hwy 23 DTF. They said this was a regular occurrence.

If LE in Ohio hold true to LE everywhere then if CR1 and the others made frequent trips and were searched a number of times and nothing was found, then the task force would be used to seeing them and may not have stopped them to search them after a period of time.

I don't know if I am explaining this very well but hopefully my meaning comes through.

I understand where you're going and I think that it is a solid theory, but, I was just saying that it could be another coincidence in the case that seems full of them, only b/c there's sooooo many folks who could happen to be in some type, of those lines of work. I didn't mean to discount your theory. I can see it, and can see it all possibly unraveling, for some reason, maybe someone wanted out, things start going bad, and something awful happened.

 

[MsJosie]

I think I was misunderstood. What I meant was all the characters who have been mentioned in connection with this crime has some involvement with the transport area of vehicles, not necessarily in a sport arena. Maybe I can put it like this so my train of thought comes through more clearly.

CR1- bought vehicles and hauled them from auctions to fix and sell.
KR- worked on said vehicles and also hauled them from auctions.
DR- sold cars through FB and by other means.
FR- worked on cars and transported them to demo derbies.
GR- helped CR1 and KR working on cars.
JW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
GW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
JM- involved with/friends with people who own a trucking company who sold him a truck according to LE that was used in the commission of aggravated murder.
JW's parents- involved in animal husbandry involving the selling of animals to be transported via horse trailers.
JW's grandparents- well known for horse ranching involving the selling of horses who had to be transported to buyers via horse trailers and maybe semis that transport animals. .
Sellers of the pickup- owns a trucking company.

All these people had in common the transport of vehicles or the operating of transport vehicles.

Combine that with the huge amount of vehicles towed at the onset of this crime by LE of which some (we have no way of knowing if LE kept some of the vehicles) were returned to family.

Then you have the fact that the Highway 23 drug task force was at the searches of the W's property.

All of this points to there maybe having been a ring that used the hauling, buying, selling, transporting of goods ect as a means to traffic drugs along the Highway 23 corridor. The goods brought in to Pike county by others, processed out then transported further north or south via cars, trucks, semis, horse trailers.

OP mentioned that when they visited relatives they were stopped and searched by the Hwy 23 DTF. They said this was a regular occurrence.

If LE in Ohio hold true to LE everywhere then if CR1 and the others made frequent trips and were searched a number of times and nothing was found, then the task force would be used to seeing them and may not have stopped them to search them after a period of time.

I don't know if I am explaining this very well but hopefully my meaning comes through.

Great thinking RAISINISBACK...too many people involved in same or similar work, somehow this is tied into th murders IMO

 

[gorillla]

I think I was misunderstood. What I meant was all the characters who have been mentioned in connection with this crime has some involvement with the transport area of vehicles, not necessarily in a sport arena. Maybe I can put it like this so my train of thought comes through more clearly.

CR1- bought vehicles and hauled them from auctions to fix and sell.
KR- worked on said vehicles and also hauled them from auctions.
DR- sold cars through FB and by other means.
FR- worked on cars and transported them to demo derbies.
GR- helped CR1 and KR working on cars.
JW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
GW- drove semis and fixed diesel engines.
JM- involved with/friends with people who own a trucking company who sold him a truck according to LE that was used in the commission of aggravated murder.
JW's parents- involved in animal husbandry involving the selling of animals to be transported via horse trailers.
JW's grandparents- well known for horse ranching involving the selling of horses who had to be transported to buyers via horse trailers and maybe semis that transport animals. .
Sellers of the pickup- owns a trucking company.

All these people had in common the transport of vehicles or the operating of transport vehicles.

Combine that with the huge amount of vehicles towed at the onset of this crime by LE of which some (we have no way of knowing if LE kept some of the vehicles) were returned to family.

Then you have the fact that the Highway 23 drug task force was at the searches of the W's property.

All of this points to there maybe having been a ring that used the hauling, buying, selling, transporting of goods ect as a means to traffic drugs along the Highway 23 corridor. The goods brought in to Pike county by others, processed out then transported further north or south via cars, trucks, semis, horse trailers.

OP mentioned that when they visited relatives they were stopped and searched by the Hwy 23 DTF. They said this was a regular occurrence.

If LE in Ohio hold true to LE everywhere then if CR1 and the others made frequent trips and were searched a number of times and nothing was found, then the task force would be used to seeing them and may not have stopped them to search them after a period of time.

I don't know if I am explaining this very well but hopefully my meaning comes through.

I think this a solid theory. It could explain the GPS on JM truck. If you think about it, what evidence could they gain from tracking JM? What (or who) were they looking for? I doubt it was for fear of him being a flight risk.


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