OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[amauet1]

I think the "raids" happened around the time they put the gps unit on JM's truck. But that just tracks the truck. They went to grand jury so the public couldn't hear what was going on when they questioned him, and then he was released. So what was the big hoo haw about? Just a little slight of hand to "prove" "were still working on this case?" I wish I could do something about all this "dog and pony show" we have been watching for almost 2 years!
I don't for the life of me understand the families not saying anything by now. That's when I suspect that their afraid of who did this. Someone so powerful that they would make their lives even more hellious than the one their living now. Or someone so visious that their afraid of retaliation from them. Either way, that's a hell of a way to live.
And raisin, I lived there for about 11 years ago in Adams Co. It was so beautiful then and I was never aware of that crap going on. I like rsd used to ride on a bike through all those back roads and like I said, the country side was just so beautiful and peaceful then. It truly hurts my heart that this is happening to Pike Co.

 

[Dudly]

Agree with all of what you say. IIRC, the last time DeWine was asked about the manpower on the case, he was vague. Seems it boils down to Reader and the BCI agent stationed in Pike Co. AG's office can be extremely frugal.

Odd, though, that they don't call in any federal help, when feds have a bigger budget and better skills, equipment and experience. Had he asked for their help during the raid of the W family properties, it would have saved him some money.

It seems that they do not want too much help from any Federal agencies after the initial help with testing, etc.. Another thing I'm curious about is why no investigative news programs seem interested in doing a story about the case. No 20/20, Dateline, Investigation Discovery, or National News like CBS, NBC, ABC, mention anything about the biggest murder case in the history of Ohio not being solved after sixteen months. Do they not care since grow ops were supposedly involved? There is NOTHING that makes any sense...

 

[mamamumbles]

After watching the documentary recently on missing women in Ohio, I have a feeling any major case should be taken over by feds immediately.

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[Dudly]

I think the "raids" happened around the time they put the gps unit on JM's truck. But that just tracks the truck. They went to grand jury so the public couldn't hear what was going on when they questioned him, and then he was released. So what was the big hoo haw about? Just a little slight of hand to "prove" "were still working on this case?" I wish I could do something about all this "dog and pony show" we have been watching for almost 2 years!
I don't for the life of me understand the families not saying anything by now. That's when I suspect that their afraid of who did this. Someone so powerful that they would make their lives even more hellious than the one their living now. Or someone so visious that their afraid of retaliation from them. Either way, that's a hell of a way to live.
And raisin, I lived there for about 11 years ago in Adams Co. It was so beautiful then and I was never aware of that crap going on. I like rsd used to ride on a bike through all those back roads and like I said, the country side was just so beautiful and peaceful then. It truly hurts my heart that this is happening to Pike Co.

Everyone has been completely silent except LM and he has gone quiet. Did LE tell them if they said anything it could happen to them, too? Did they tell them talking to MM that it would keep LE from getting a conviction? Nothing even leaked anonymously from anyone who was at the scenes for whatever reason they were there. I didn't know it was possible to keep something this secret. With almost every phone being a camera, no one took a picture of anything? Were all the EMTs, etc. so closely supervised by LE? Were they all sworn to secrecy? Even then, usually something comes out...
E

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Bootsctr Stay safe down there in the Lonestar state. I don't know how far you are from Port Lavaca and Houston but even inland there is supposed to be massive flooding. Me and mine will be praying for you and yours to stay safe throughout hurricane Harvey.

BTW I spent a week in Port Lavaca. Beautiful little town but no protection from the hurricanes. No seawall, no sand dunes or anything. The ocean is right there and the land is flat with not even that many trees to speak of.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think the "raids" happened around the time they put the gps unit on JM's truck. But that just tracks the truck. They went to grand jury so the public couldn't hear what was going on when they questioned him, and then he was released. So what was the big hoo haw about? Just a little slight of hand to "prove" "were still working on this case?" I wish I could do something about all this "dog and pony show" we have been watching for almost 2 years!
I don't for the life of me understand the families not saying anything by now. That's when I suspect that their afraid of who did this. Someone so powerful that they would make their lives even more hellious than the one their living now. Or someone so visious that their afraid of retaliation from them. Either way, that's a hell of a way to live.
And raisin, I lived there for about 11 years ago in Adams Co. It was so beautiful then and I was never aware of that crap going on. I like rsd used to ride on a bike through all those back roads and like I said, the country side was just so beautiful and peaceful then. It truly hurts my heart that this is happening to Pike Co.

BBM

Me either. I would be out there every day putting pressure on LE. I suspect the families are afraid also. The bad thing is I suspect the R,M,G families are afraid of LE too.

 

[Betty P]

Everyone has been completely silent except LM and he has gone quiet. Did LE tell them if they said anything it could happen to them, too? Did they tell them talking to MM that it would keep LE from getting a conviction? Nothing even leaked anonymously from anyone who was at the scenes for whatever reason they were there. I didn't know it was possible to keep something this secret. With almost every phone being a camera, no one took a picture of anything? Were all the EMTs, etc. so closely supervised by LE? Were they all sworn to secrecy? Even then, usually something comes out...
E

Just a guess, but when they convened the latest grand jury (after JM's arrest for removing the tracking device from his truck) they may have called in a lot of family members to testify. They may now be sworn to not discuss the case under threat of some kind of penalty.

One theory I had was that the recent drug, etc. raids south of the crime scene gave them the opportunity to do some DNA testing on some of those they arrested. That's why I recently started the discussion about DNA evidence from the crime scenes. Seems enough time would have passed for them to get results of any tests they conducted in those raids. Also assume they tried to get more information out of the arrested parties. If true, they should have gone after this group a year ago. Why did they wait so long? Their names have been in the rumor mill connected to other local suspects for a long time.

Same thing with the raids on the W family properties - why did LE wait so long to investigate them? It just seems everything that's been done in the last few months should have been done a year ago.

As for getting desperate enough to look at witness protection, yeah we're all getting frustrated. From books I've read in the past about organized crime, the FBI has put entire families into witness protection without having to stage something drastic like mass murder. I'm thinking of Henry Hill (the real life character from "Goodfellas"). After turning on the mob, he, his wife and kids were all put in the witness protection program for several years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hill

IIRC from Nicholas Pileggi's book about Hill, the FBI just suddenly moved them into hiding. They weren't allowed to tell anyone they were going. Nothing dramatic was staged to cover their disappearance. Eventually, Hill and his wife divorced. She and his children left witness protection and resumed their lives.

So, JMO, it seems unlikely they were put into witness protection. They're gone. It was obvious from listening to Gary Rhoden's father that they were gone. His grief was genuine. The FBI, the only agency with the ability to do this, has been stiff-armed by Ohio LE.

Hopefully, we'll hear something from the news media before long. They've been most helpful at keeping this case in the public's attention.

 

[Bootsctr]

Bootsctr Stay safe down there in the Lonestar state. I don't know how far you are from Port Lavaca and Houston but even inland there is supposed to be massive flooding. Me and mine will be praying for you and yours to stay safe throughout hurricane Harvey.

BTW I spent a week in Port Lavaca. Beautiful little town but no protection from the hurricanes. No seawall, no sand dunes or anything. The ocean is right there and the land is flat with not even that many trees to speak of.

Thank you so much Raisin! Much appreciated! The outer bands are just now hitting Huntsville, TX. That's south of me about 50 or so miles. Bracing for much wind and rain! I have a friend whose sister lives in Aransas Pass. I hope we don't lose power, but it is possible.

 

[Betty P]

It seems that they do not want too much help from any Federal agencies after the initial help with testing, etc.. Another thing I'm curious about is why no investigative news programs seem interested in doing a story about the case. No 20/20, Dateline, Investigation Discovery, or National News like CBS, NBC, ABC, mention anything about the biggest murder case in the history of Ohio not being solved after sixteen months. Do they not care since grow ops were supposedly involved? There is NOTHING that makes any sense...

You're right, it seems odd that none of the investigation shows are touching this case. Perhaps they've been warned to stay away by someone telling them the investigation can't be disturbed or somesuch, with promise they'll get access later. Who would have that kind of authority to convince big news media? The Feds don't seem to be involved in the case, so it would have to be someone from Ohio. I find this aspect to be increasingly unusual, especially now that the 1 yr anniversary has passed and no real progress has been made in the case. One would guess the producers of those shows would be growing more interested in covering it.

In my previous comment, I also meant to mention the M family has likely gone silent because they hired a well known defense attorney to handle JM's case. He has probably told them to stop talking to protect JM and the Rhoden case. I will say that LM's interviews, while unusual and sometimes bizarre, were of great importance in helping this case stay on the radar. Without his early interviews, the public may have viewed this case differently, been less skeptical of how it's been handled. It's even possible his public comments prevented LE from railroading innocent people into arrest and conviction. He was fighting for justice the only way he could, as best he could. I really miss his interviews, hope we hear from him again soon.

 

[Betty P]

Thank you so much Raisin! Much appreciated! The outer bands are just now hitting Huntsville, TX. That's south of me about 50 or so miles. Bracing for much wind and rain! I have a friend whose sister lives in Aransas Pass. I hope we don't lose power, but it is possible.

Stay safe! If the worst happens, you have friends in Ohio you can bunk with for a while!

 

[Bootsctr]

Stay safe! If the worst happens, you have friends in Ohio you can bunk with for a while!

Awww shucks Betty! :blushing: Thanks! Ohio is a big beautiful state. I would love to come visit the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and eat some Cincinnati chili. lol! After looking at Youtube videos and pictures, etc. of Ohio, it looks a lot like Texas, or at least where I live. Lots of trees and lots of open fields. Gorgeous!

I am just so saddened that there is virtually little to no movement in the Rhoden murders. . . They were all so young and to die in such a horrible way, it does make me wish they were in a witness protection program. I think the Manleys are living in fear. And the Gilleys not saying anything, is that out of fear? Maybe there will be an arrest with a tip will lead to a break. I'm hoping for anything at this point.

Ohio rocks!

 

[Dudly]

Just a guess, but when they convened the latest grand jury (after JM's arrest for removing the tracking device from his truck) they may have called in a lot of family members to testify. They may now be sworn to not discuss the case under threat of some kind of penalty.

One theory I had was that the recent drug, etc. raids south of the crime scene gave them the opportunity to do some DNA testing on some of those they arrested. That's why I recently started the discussion about DNA evidence from the crime scenes. Seems enough time would have passed for them to get results of any tests they conducted in those raids. Also assume they tried to get more information out of the arrested parties. If true, they should have gone after this group a year ago. Why did they wait so long? Their names have been in the rumor mill connected to other local suspects for a long time.

Same thing with the raids on the W family properties - why did LE wait so long to investigate them? It just seems everything that's been done in the last few months should have been done a year ago.

As for getting desperate enough to look at witness protection, yeah we're all getting frustrated. From books I've read in the past about organized crime, the FBI has put entire families into witness protection without having to stage something drastic like mass murder. I'm thinking of Henry Hill (the real life character from "Goodfellas"). After turning on the mob, he, his wife and kids were all put in the witness protection program for several years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hill

IIRC from Nicholas Pileggi's book about Hill, the FBI just suddenly moved them into hiding. They weren't allowed to tell anyone they were going. Nothing dramatic was staged to cover their disappearance. Eventually, Hill and his wife divorced. She and his children left witness protection and resumed their lives.

So, JMO, it seems unlikely they were put into witness protection. They're gone. It was obvious from listening to Gary Rhoden's father that they were gone. His grief was genuine. The FBI, the only agency with the ability to do this, has been stiff-armed by Ohio LE.

Hopefully, we'll hear something from the news media before long. They've been most helpful at keeping this case in the public's attention.

Every time I see a mention of DeWine on the internet, I reply with a post to ask him about the Pike County murders and when something about what happened might be released instead of being a big secret...

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Thank you so much Raisin! Much appreciated! The outer bands are just now hitting Huntsville, TX. That's south of me about 50 or so miles. Bracing for much wind and rain! I have a friend whose sister lives in Aransas Pass. I hope we don't lose power, but it is possible.

BBM

Very possible unfortunately. The ground down there is already so saturated any more rain and the trees are going to start coming down so watch out for that.


Aransas Pass is in the line of fire. I will be praying for your friends sister. Things are about to get real serious down there. Looks like landfall will be just north of Corpus. The first landfall anyway. I think they are pegging Galveston and League City or maybe even further north for the second landfall next week. Stay safe Bootsctr and I hope you don't lose power.

 

[cujenn81]

Not to sound like I need to dig out my tin foil hat (just yet) but,there was all of the moving/prep to move/selling on FB/etc..., then a move to AK after JW was found to not to be the father of the 2nd child. They openly did all of this about the move, it wasn't hurried, S's father, JW, was given paternal rights, etc.. then, right after the move, 1/2 the state of Ohio's LEOs, and other organizations, were at three search scenes, none actually belonging to those Ws. They'd sold that farm. I wonder what else was going on, newsworthy, local, state, etc...that didn't get coverage? I wonder if someone called in a tip that rung really true, to get a whole bunch of forces out there. If they're all out there, they can't be patrolling for other things. It looks as if it was a wild goose chase.

I've thought the same thing -- that those searches were done for no other reason than to shift media attention away from something else entirely. The timing made absolutely no sense to me, LE made no attempt to keep things quiet, and news outlets were on scene almost immediately. For all of these reasons, those searches sure seem suspect.


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[Betty P]

I've thought the same thing -- that those searches were done for no other reason than to shift media attention away from something else entirely. The timing made absolutely no sense to me, LE made no attempt to keep things quiet, and news outlets were on scene almost immediately. For all of these reasons, those searches sure seem suspect.


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I still think the search was done as investigation theater to make it appear they were investigating a group that should have been investigated very thoroughly a long time ago. It was very interesting that they searched (with SWAT teams) the Flying W Farms, owned by influential, wealthy people with an extensive real estate and corporate portfolio in the area. It's also interesting many of the people recently busted for drug dealing, manufacturing, etc. live on property owned by or had "land contracts" with the elder Wagner family.

It's almost as if someone said

"Hey, the guy from this family was the last person to see many of these people alive. His family was angry over custody issues, they're all up in suspicious activity possibly related to the drug trade network in the area. Aren't you guys ever going to investigate them?"

So the prosecutor, BCI and AG fiddled around until the family had enough time to get rid of stuff, pack up and move out of state. Then they staged a big, showy raid (without federal agents) and said "See! We didn't find anything!"

Meantime, the feds apparently knew enough about the activities of this family to stop, question and search them multiple times along the route from Ohio, before they ended their journey in Alaska. Feds don't do that to a group of middle class, "religious" white people for no reason. The Feds have a reason for questioning and searching them. JMO, W family knew to expect this and were coached by an attorney on how to handle it. They've probably had high priced attorneys coaching them from the first hour after the 911 call was placed from Union Hill Rd. the day the Rhodens died.

But murder charges can only come from the county and state. And those guys aren't doing anything.

JMO, in some way, the extended Wagner family may be a big player in the local drug trade, may have been for many years. They may have a bizarre little feudal estate out there where people are involved in growing, making and/or selling various kinds of drugs on their property while funneling profits back to them in the form of "rent" or "land contracts". They are protected, they have friends in high places. CRSr. managed to stay out of their grasp. He owned his own property, worked, took care of his family and refused to become part of their fiefdom. But his daughter bore the child of their son/grandson and CRSr became a small-time, but growing competitor in the MJ business. You can figure out the rest.

ETA: As for the Ohio news media, they will likely now go silent on this case or they will report little about it, as they're doing now. That's happening because we're close to 1 year out from very important statewide elections. This always happens, even before the Rhodens were murdered. Ohio news media is very obedient to groups of people who are powerful.

:cow: :moo:

 

[Flatbush]

I just want to interject my personal thought here. DeWine is coming up for a run at the governor's office. He's got competition. My point being, he has been active since day 1 with the case. There are alot of votes down here in southern Ohio. IF there are no arrests, am I correct in assuming this would hurt his chances getting elected? In other words, he may be using the case to his advantage if arrests are made? Just food for thought really.

 

[rsd1200]

Just a guess, but when they convened the latest grand jury (after JM's arrest for removing the tracking device from his truck) they may have called in a lot of family members to testify. They may now be sworn to not discuss the case under threat of some kind of penalty.

One theory I had was that the recent drug, etc. raids south of the crime scene gave them the opportunity to do some DNA testing on some of those they arrested. That's why I recently started the discussion about DNA evidence from the crime scenes. Seems enough time would have passed for them to get results of any tests they conducted in those raids. Also assume they tried to get more information out of the arrested parties. If true, they should have gone after this group a year ago. Why did they wait so long? Their names have been in the rumor mill connected to other local suspects for a long time.

Same thing with the raids on the W family properties - why did LE wait so long to investigate them? It just seems everything that's been done in the last few months should have been done a year ago.

As for getting desperate enough to look at witness protection, yeah we're all getting frustrated. From books I've read in the past about organized crime, the FBI has put entire families into witness protection without having to stage something drastic like mass murder. I'm thinking of Henry Hill (the real life character from "Goodfellas"). After turning on the mob, he, his wife and kids were all put in the witness protection program for several years

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Hill

IIRC from Nicholas Pileggi's book about Hill, the FBI just suddenly moved them into hiding. They weren't allowed to tell anyone they were going. Nothing dramatic was staged to cover their disappearance. Eventually, Hill and his wife divorced. She and his children left witness protection and resumed their lives.

So, JMO, it seems unlikely they were put into witness protection. They're gone. It was obvious from listening to Gary Rhoden's father that they were gone. His grief was genuine. The FBI, the only agency with the ability to do this, has been stiff-armed by Ohio LE.

Hopefully, we'll hear something from the news media before long. They've been most helpful at keeping this case in the public's attention.

I agree. Nothing much surprises me though, so, would I be bowled over if we found out that is what happened, 20 years down the road? No. Do I think that is what happened? No. Like you, I do believe that GR's, father's, grief, was completely real, and I feel that he'd seen his son's body, after his son's death.

 

[kbpirate]

Witness protection has been in the back of my mind since the very beginning. They make realistic wax bodies of people all the time, why not for a funeral? If they looked "off" it would have been blamed on them being dead and make up to cover injuries.

 

[Nickandnora]

Have we heard who identified the bodies?

 

[Dudly]

I just want to interject my personal thought here. DeWine is coming up for a run at the governor's office. He's got competition. My point being, he has been active since day 1 with the case. There are alot of votes down here in southern Ohio. IF there are no arrests, am I correct in assuming this would hurt his chances getting elected? In other words, he may be using the case to his advantage if arrests are made? Just food for thought really.

I have wondered that for a while now. Look at me! I solved this terrible murder! Vote for me!!!