OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #30

[superbee]

I am well aware that coal miners work in terrible conditions and that the work is back breaking.

But it may also benefit everyone to research the working conditions of oil field workers. I can supply a little of that research from knowledge i have picked up from people.

Oil field workers and oil related workers sometimes work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week during a turn around. At the very least they put in 10 and 12 hour days mostly 6 days a week. They work on drilling units where they handle pipe weighing hundreds of pounds. They work high in the air, rain, shine, snow or heat. They work in weld and fabrication shops where they are stooped down 10 to 12 hours a day welding tanks. Obviously that generates heat making the work conditions in summer when temps can get over 100 degrees during the day not only miserable but dangerous. In the winter the only heat in those shops is what is generated from the welding machines.

Those who work out in the field on the rigs are also working long days in the intense heat under the direct sun. In winter It is just as bad because temps can dip below zero with winds out of the north of about 10-50 miles an hour. They work through storms with lightening and tornadoes with no place to take shelter. They have to climb the oil derricks and then stoop down all day to weld pipe in place. Many are severely injured and killed when they fall off those derricks or the derrick collapses, or the well blows from the gases.

Everyone in this area knows someone who has been hurt or killed on an oil derrick. It's just that common. To the point of being almost an every day thing.

Then those who build the storage tanks have to weld them, fit them up which involves lifting steel into place and clean them. Many have been hurt building the heat exchangers for the refineries which can weigh up to 30,000 pounds and can come loose and swing around at any time. The tanks can explode during cleaning.

Those workers are breathing lethal chemicals from the welding rods all day causing most of them to end up with COPD. The arcs from the welds causes many of the to have diminished eyesight and some go almost totally blind.

My father was a pipefitter who was severely injured on the job. He was building heat exchangers when one came loose and swung around and hit him. He suffered two broken hips, a broken back, his pelvic bone was broken in three places and he had severe internal injuries. He was in a wheel chair for years and when he was finally able to walk he limped for the rest of his life. His is just one story out of thousands of stories just like it around here.

It is always big news when a mine collapses and miners are killed, injured or trapped. But it doesn't even warrant a line in the local paper when an oil derrick collapses and kills, injures or traps the workers. That is because it is so common here.

Working on oil rigs, and in oil and gas plants is hard, dangerous work. Two of our family are Boilermakers. They work on the huge tanks and the heat exchangers like your Pipefitter Dad did, bless his heart. One has has COPD and had 2 hip replacements. The other has a bad back. But they carry on, and are part of the huge army of hard workers who keep gasoline and fuel flowing, and heat into homes. Thank you for telling their story, which you did so well.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Working on oil rigs, and in oil and gas plants is hard, dangerous work. Two of our family are Boilermakers. They work on the huge tanks and the heat exchangers like your Pipefitter Dad did, bless his heart. One has has COPD and had 2 hip replacements. The other has a bad back. But they carry on, and are part of the huge army of hard workers who keep gasoline and fuel flowing, and heat into homes. Thank you for telling their story, which you did so well.

BBM

Give my best to your family that are Boilerrmakers and work on the storage tanks and heat exchangers. Tell them to be careful. What many do not realize is that oil related work is very dangerous. Gasoline is highly flammable. There has been so many explosions at the refineries on the gulf coast that I don't even think there are any real numbers for it. Many suffer severe burns and broken bones. Many also don't realize that the sludge left after crude oil is stored in a tank is flammable and how easy those tanks can explode when workers are cleaning them. A lot of people also don't realize that workers building those tanks are handling huge sheets of metal and heavy pipe.

And tell them thank you for the gas in my car and the heat in my home. This country could not run without them.

For that matter I would also like to thank the coal miners for their work. This country owes them a lot.

 

[Curiosum]

The fact that there are many occupations that are hard work and dangerous is why I am questioning why it is only in the Appalachian region that pill mills and huge shipments of pain pills showed up.

There are many hard and dangerous jobs, if you have ever watched Deadliest Catch where they proudly tout their job a the most dangerous in the world, and you can see the horrible working conditions live right on your TV screen. But yet there are no news stories about the prevalence of pill mills and huge shipments of pain pills to Alaska.

Then there are the road construction workers who work out in heat and cold and run the risk of being crushed or ran over by a car.

You have the coal miners, steel mill workers, construction workers, oil field workers, just to name a few that comes to mind, who spend hours a day at back breaking work.

But yet it is only the coal mining area where these lethal painkillers have been handed out like so much candy at a Russell Stover's store.

And it is only the coal mining industry that has been on the decline with people off work and unable to find a job.

That is what makes me think there is a direct co-relation between the out of work miners and the influx of powerful painkillers that can and does kill those same unemployed miners.

I think there has been a lot of emphasis on Southern WV pill mills because of the lawsuit, and because of the political exploitation of Appalachia in our last election. I think that skews public perception a bit from reality. DEA data and statistics certainly tell a bit of a different story. I am not saying this isn't a problem in the Appalachian region, but I am certainly saying that this is a national problem. Nationally, pharmaceutical non disclosure, economies of scale, drug epidemic shifts, CMS targets with patient satisfaction etc are all critical elements at play.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

This is from 6 months into the case, I think. But the sheriff very clearly says here that he believes the perpetrators are from within the county or very nearby.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fgX_ZCf2cuM

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[Betty P]

This is from 6 months into the case, I think. But the sheriff very clearly says here that he believes the perpetrators are from within the county or very nearby.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fgX_ZCf2cuM

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Yes, they've said that. I'm not sure I believe it anymore. If it were someone local (they have their own home grown assassination teams down there?) they would have arrested them by now. Its unlikely a group of locals could pull off something of this magnitude and have no one talk, tell a friend or girlfriend, etc. Still possible, but increasingly unlikely as time goes by. JMO.

I also think they used this excuse - making it sound local and something small - to deal with critics for not calling in help from the FBI, etc.

There are local people involved, but they brought in experienced people from elsewhere. It's hard to imagine a group of inexperienced people would be willing to try this unless they thought they could get by with it. The planning and execution to get it done without victims fighting back, calling each other, raising the alarm before the death tour was finished is very risky. The family was already on alert. Especially risky was killing CR1 and GR right next door to FR & HG. Those trailer walls are thin and the windows were open. Frankie likely would have awakened after hearing multiple gunshots over at his dad's place, not to mention the dogs barking. Same scenario if they went to Frankie's first. Add in the risk of being interrupted in the middle of driving to different homes and the risk of leaving evidence at 4 different crime scenes, and I can't imagine local amateurs willing to risk it. They had some experienced people along, who planned and executed it.

We've discussed, too, how the killers and their vehicles, weapons, etc. must have been covered in blood by the time they were finished. Where did they go to clean up? How did they abandon cars and weapons?

:moo:

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, they've said that. I'm not sure I believe it anymore. If it were someone local (they have their own home grown assassination teams down there?) they would have arrested them by now. Its unlikely a group of locals could pull off something of this magnitude and have no one talk, tell a friend or girlfriend, etc. Still possible, but increasingly unlikely as time goes by. JMO.

I also think they used this excuse - making it sound local and something small - to deal with critics for not calling in help from the FBI, etc.

There are local people involved, but they brought in experienced people from elsewhere. It's hard to imagine a group of inexperienced people would be willing to try this unless they thought they could get by with it. The planning and execution to get it done without victims fighting back, calling each other, raising the alarm before the death tour was finished is very risky. The family was already on alert. Especially risky was killing CR1 and GR right next door to FR & HG. Those trailer walls are thin and the windows were open. Frankie likely would have awakened after hearing multiple gunshots over at his dad's place, not to mention the dogs barking. Same scenario if they went to Frankie's first. Add in the risk of being interrupted in the middle of driving to different homes and the risk of leaving evidence at 4 different crime scenes, and I can't imagine local amateurs willing to risk it. They had some experienced people along, who planned and executed it.

We've discussed, too, how the killers and their vehicles, weapons, etc. must have been covered in blood by the time they were finished. Where did they go to clean up? How did they abandon cars and weapons?

:moo:

BBM

I think the killers went to FR's first and that CR1 and GR did wake up, that's why the beating and so many shots for CR1. Him and GR fought back. It could also explain why the dogs were outside, if CR1 awoke and opened the door to run outside to see what was going on at FR's. Then again there is about 200? IIRC yards between FR and CR1's trailer. If a small caliber 22 or similar gun was used the gunshots would not have been as loud and the sound would not have carried as far.

I can see it being locals, especially if there is a "Boss Hogg" type scenario operating there, but I also think that it was not the killers first rodeo.

So in my thinking they could have been both local and experienced killers.

In those videos of LM he has always seemed like he was on the verge of pointing a finger of blame at someone, but he also seemed too scared to do so. That makes me think there is a well established powerhouse around there of which all the locals know and have heard horror stories about what happens if you mention their name. And LM also seemed very confident that local LE would not "Do anything" I think was his words IIRC, leading me to believe that either local LE could never get anyone to talk about or be a witness against this powerhouse or local LE (remember Sheriff Reader has just been in office a short time) was in cahoots with the said "Boss Hogg".

All this is JMO

 

[rsd1200]

Fascinating, yet terrible history there. Organized crime of one kind or another (the general classification I use) has been going on for generations in these areas. Recent years have shown other organized crime groups from other regions are working in this area. The DEA reports show that - groups from Mexico, Florida, Detroit, etc. It seems to vary according to the type of illegal substance and/or activity (prostitution) being peddled.

None of the gangs want to attract the FBI or DEA, but some OC groups are more likely to resort to murder than others.

Conversely, if a criminal boss, etc. thought they had the connections to keep the FBI out of the investigation, they may have been willing to risk a horrific massacre. Perhaps the killers of the Rhodens knew they could get by with their crimes before they committed them. Turns out, they were right. The FBI has been kept out of the investigation. Who has the power to make that promise? Or was it just a calculated risk?

JMO, the Rhoden murders were meant to both eliminate a threat and to send a very strong message to others. Cross us and you'll be destroyed and no one will stop us.

As the sheriff said: This is bigger than drugs.

The one thing that all of those who were murdered, have in common, other than familial ties, is that they all had worked at the same workplace, at some point in time (or hung out there and helped their parents work, so they could swim and enjoy the place). Over the past 18+ months, I've tossed around a theory of possible blackmail. It's not at the top of my list but it just won't go away. The Rs were used to kinda pushin' their weight around to get what they wanted, playin' rough. Did they underestimate someone?

It's because of the case below, that I think that Reader is right, on at least one thing, this is bigger than drugs. If it's a crime that crosses state borders, the FBI doesn't have to be invited to join in the investigation. Iirc a 19 y/o kid who went with CR2, to pick up cars, said they went out of state to get them. I just feel that the FBI would have picked up on that, before, or after, the murders, and would have been all over it. Like the one below. DeWine didn't seem to try and keep them out of this one.

Twenty-one Individuals Indicted on Trafficking Heroin, Cocaine, and Violence Into Community.

“These individuals brought heroin, cocaine and violence to our community,” said FBI Special Agent in Charge Stephen D. Anthony. “This multi-agency, multi-state roundup is another example of the collaborative efforts engaged in by local and federal law enforcement agencies in an effort to rid our streets of drugs and the dangerous individuals that supply them.

The joint investigation preceding the indictment was conducted by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Drug Enforcement Administration, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Mahoning Valley Law Enforcement Task Force, the Portage County Drug Task Force and the Youngstown Police Department, with the assistance of the Mahoning County Prosecutor’s Office. The cases are being prosecuted by Assistant U.S. Attorney David M. Toepfer.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndoh/p...urt-trafficking-heroin-youngstown-and-ravenna

 

[Dudly]

Another Southeastern Ohio case where court records were sealed by court order. Is that a new thing? I don't remember hearing that being done in the past...

http://wdtn.com/2017/10/20/court-records-sealed-in-fbi-atf-investigation/

 

[rsd1200]

Another Southeastern Ohio case where court records were sealed by court order. Is that a new thing? I don't remember hearing that being done in the past...

http://wdtn.com/2017/10/20/court-records-sealed-in-fbi-atf-investigation/

It's also another case with the FBI, (and ATF) involved, in Ohio. I can kinda see not letting this one loose yet. Embezzlement and firearms. There might be other arrests coming.

[FONT=&quot]"According to county jail records, the homeowner, Joel Montgomery, is being held in the Montgomery County Jail on charges connected to embezzlement and prohibited acts in the dealing of firearms."[/FONT]

"[FONT=&quot]The FBI has deferred 2 News to the U.S. Attorney’s Office regarding this investigation.[/FONT] "

I keep thinking that if the Rs were tied into firearms, or hard drugs, it's been a year now, somebody investigating these other crimes would have found a loose end during these sweeps, or somebody they've caught, would roll on the assailants or what they know on the R's past activities, to get a lighter sentence.

 

[amauet1]

I am not personally big on government conspiracies. Way too many moving parts to implement any cohesive plans.

However, if you want to know how these kinds of problems can become huge without being noticed or alarms being triggered, check into the recent Drug Czar kerfuffle. Government at its best has an interested in high employment and a strong economy. However, it is also vulnerable to a variety of interests. No way around the reality that drug manufacturers benefit from high levels of drug use and sales. Some may argue that we only paid attention to opioid addiction when it moved from the rural areas to the suburbs. And of course the first best efforts of some of the lawnorder types (Ohio Governor John Kasich) had to do with closing down the legal-looking pain-clinic pill mills. This then drove a stunning increase in street drugs and heroin. Clearly attacking the supply did not alter the demand. There is such a thing as treatment for addiction, but frankly our capacity is nowhere near the need. And prisons represent the highest-priced and least effective means of treating both mental illness and addiction

So, legislators have been about looking at ways to fund an expansion of treatment beds and at the same time put in place greater regulation of drug companies shipping millions of highly addictive substances to single locations, etc, in the hope of stopping addictions before they start.

And that's where our recent almost drug czar comes in. Tom Marino, the nominee, apparently was soft, very soft, on providing the DEA with regulations and enforcement "teeth" during his time in Congress. Raises the specter of being in someone's pocket. Fortunately some journalists were able to make a strong enough case that making him drug czar would be like contracting with the fox to guard the henhouse that he was forced to remove his name from nomination.

So, planning, yes. But not by the government and not about controlling the surplus population. More like the individual efforts of a number of companies making good money off of the current situation and not wanting government to interfere.

Reminds me of what was done to american indians with whiskey.

 

[samanthalawson69]

Reminds me of what was done to american indians with whiskey.

I didn't even think of it in those terms but i can see it. The mid 90s is around the time I noticed the pills moving through the holler I spent my early years in. I moved away and didn't go back until after my son was born in 01. It was so bad! I moved him way when he was 10 to London thinking it would be away from the pills. He's 16 years old now and the pills and drugs are worse because this is a trucking hub if that makes sense?

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[Dudly]

I wonder if this is what happened with the electronic devices in this case....

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/wi...evices-encryption-50646368?cid=social_fb_abcn

 

[Betty P]

Another Southeastern Ohio case where court records were sealed by court order. Is that a new thing? I don't remember hearing that being done in the past...

http://wdtn.com/2017/10/20/court-records-sealed-in-fbi-atf-investigation/

Interesting. That case is being investigated by FBI and ATF. No mention of DEA. Charges were related to firearms. What's going on down there?

Watched this video today and it reminded me of all the Pike Counties in the US today.

[video=youtube;jlVkU0UST6c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=217&v=jlVkU0UST6c[/video]

 

[Dudly]

The silence is deafening doesn't even describe this case good enough....

 

[RAISINISBACK]

President Trump to declare opioids a public health crisis - AOL News

Too little too late?

 

[Dudly]

President Trump to declare opioids a public health crisis - AOL News

Too little too late?

Definitely too little. As I understand it no new funds. Any money used will come from different fund...

 

[rsd1200]

The silence is deafening doesn't even describe this case good enough....

I've a feeling I'll be checking in here this time next year, and maybe the next, and the next, and...

 

[Dudly]

CEO bribed doctors to prescribe fentanyl-based pain medication...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/drug-compa...ery-scam/story?id=50737965&cid=social_fb_abcn

 

[JGB]

Interesting. That case is being investigated by FBI and ATF. No mention of DEA. Charges were related to firearms. What's going on down there?

Watched this video today and it reminded me of all the Pike Counties in the US today.

[video=youtube;jlVkU0UST6c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=217&v=jlVkU0UST6c[/video]

Wow, Dan Tyminski is a long way from Man of Constant Sorrow! Love this cut, thanks for sharing.
RIP Rhoden family.

 

[Betty P]

Maybe the surviving family, friends and community leaders should call their own Town Hall Meeting on the case. Invite all the elected officials - especially all the ones who have kept silent on this murder. The ones who have done nothing, haven't visited the town or the families. State Rep, State Senator, Congressperson, US Senators, Governor. Call the news media and have them attend. Public pressure is the only way to get a response. If any elected official refuses the invite, call the news media and let it be known.

I'd be happy to help coordinate.