OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[StrangeOne]

JMO, they did it as an assignment or job. Someone targeted the family, presumably those involved in the grow op, because they were a threat. Many feel it was also done to send a very big message to others in the area involved in MJ, drug trade or whatever. It may have been about a power struggle with the killers sending the message that they are in charge. "Don't mess with us."

It was a big, bold, horrible crime that made news around the world. That was probably their intention.

We, the general public, may not understand the message but those involved do.

It was not a big enough grow to be a threat to anyone who is in the mj business

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[StrangeOne]

For you new arrivals to the threads on this Rhoden massacre, it would be good to start from the first posts and read through what has been posted. A lot of things have been hashed and rehashed multiple times and questions you have were probably discussed several times in almost two years now. There have been very many scenarios covered and a multitude of other things discussed many times...

I will be sure not to ask any questions as I read along the threads. Its a good thing no one ever changes their opinion on things.

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[Betty P]

I am leaving for an appointment shortly. But I wanted to mention another reason LE is convinced this case involves individuals with close ties to the family therefore making the motive very personal. It's a given the perps were familiar with the dogs & where the surveillance cameras were located.But the murderers spared the three children while shooting their parents in cold blood lying in bed or very close to them.

Here is the clincher for me and I quote the spokesman for the AG,' "[FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Whatever those safety concerns, they would not be different for the kids" This makes the motive very personal as LE has confirmed. If this was a professional hit the perps would be long gone. The worry is therefore for the children and LE says everyone including family are under suspicion.[/FONT]

Link
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Authorities have declined to disclose much about the case and even less about the children. Court records are sealed. Officials say that is for their safety. Until investigators identity a suspect, everyone — including the family — remains under suspicion.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]"Both the AG and the Pike County Sheriff have said safety has been an issue,'' said Dan Tierney, a spokesman for Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine. "Whatever those safety concerns, they would not be different for the kids."[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...s-all-weve-got-left-just-those-kids/85231530/

BTW I enjoy reading everyone's posts. Fresh eyes can pick up nuances we have missed.
:cow:[/FONT][/FONT]

I'm not sure about a danger to the children per se, but it was believed the custody issue with the Wagner family (father of Hanna Rhoden's older daughter) may be relevant. LM and others alluded to a fight over child custody and many believe it's possible that could have been part of the motivation for the murders. Along those lines, there's a theory that the Wagner family was also involved in some form of illegal activity. Their escalating fight to gain full custody of the daughter (S) may have set off a disagreement and threats over illegal business between the elder Wagners and Rhodens.

It could have resulted in the Wagners calling higher ups to tell them that CRSr was going to reveal some information about their business. That would have brought the murders, involving both W's and higher level criminal players. Remember, LE did say they were keeping a "laser focus" on the W family.

ETA: Keep in mind LE is free to lie during these investigations in order to flush out culprits or protect information. They do it all the time. They're not required to be honest with the public until they arrest someone and bring them to court.

 

[Betty P]

It was not a big enough grow to be a threat to anyone who is in the mj business

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Their grow op might not have been the problem, I agree. The problem may have been in the people and activities CRSr and KR encountered while doing business. They may have run into some people who were running much bigger operations, involving other drugs and illegal activities. If those people thought CRSr or KR were a threat to them, eg. working with police, it could cause very big problems.

 

[Betty P]

I will be sure not to ask any questions as I read along the threads. Its a good thing no one ever changes their opinion on things.

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I don't think anyone here minds new discussions. If you need background information and details about the case, there's a lot of information in the Media and Timelines thread, as well as links on the first page of each thread.

 

[Satchie]

I will be sure not to ask any questions as I read along the threads. Its a good thing no one ever changes their opinion on things.

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Ha, good one.

 

[StrangeOne]

I don't think anyone here minds new discussions. If you need background information and details about the case, there's a lot of information in the Media and Timelines thread, as well as links on the first page of each thread.

Thank you

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[MizStery]

I will be sure not to ask any questions as I read along the threads. Its a good thing no one ever changes their opinion on things.

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A belated welcome to Websleuths :welcome: like yourself this raid and mass extermination is so sinister that I for one cannot get my head around it.

The collective depravity & the perps ability to penetrate and enter homes undetected,neutralize the dogs,thwart the security cameras,shoot their victims then just disappear as if they were almost supernatural.Thus leaving only a bewildered BJM (exception is KR)the next morning to discover the grisly murders after using a key or otherwise gaining entry to their individual locked doors. What professional hit team would be so invested as to leave a CS from outward appearances even down to locking individual doors behind them with the children and dogs left unharmed?A profession hit or cartel would execute & look at dogs or children harmed as collateral damage. No, as LE has stated this execution was personal and if the local community has any information they are not sharing it.

Websleuths has TOS Rules. The standard for posting is when stating something as fact to always include a link from a major media source.The preferred way to handle unpleasantness if diplomacy does not work is to use 'alert' symbol to notify the mods. If TOS Rules have been broken it is for the mods to determine how they wish to proceed. This hopefully prevents posters from becoming nasty to each other.

My final thought after my lengthy post is 'it is difficult' to determine if a poster is just curt or if they are mean spirited. I choose to take the high road (most of the time) and assume that 'we will have to agree to disagree' and move on, If that doesn't work there is an ignore feature.

My post is offered with only good will.This is not meant as a lecture nor do I have any authority over what others post.:seeya:

:cow:

 

[Betty P]

A belated welcome to Websleuths :welcome: like yourself this raid and mass extermination is so sinister that I for one cannot get my head around it.

The collective depravity & the perps ability to penetrate and enter homes undetected,neutralize the dogs,thwart the security cameras,shoot their victims then just disappear as if they were almost supernatural.Thus leaving only a bewildered BJM (exception is KR)the next morning to discover the grisly murders after using a key or otherwise gaining entry to their individual locked doors. What professional hit team would be so invested as to leave a CS from outward appearances even down to locking individual doors behind them with the children and dogs left unharmed?A profession hit or cartel would execute & look at dogs or children harmed as collateral damage. No, as LE has stated this execution was personal and if the local community has any information they are not sharing it.

Websleuths has TOS Rules. The standard for posting is when stating something as fact to always include a link from a major media source.The preferred way to handle unpleasantness if diplomacy does not work is to use 'alert' symbol to notify the mods. If TOS Rules have been broken it is for the mods to determine how they wish to proceed. This hopefully prevents posters from becoming nasty to each other.

My final thought after my lengthy post is 'it is difficult' to determine if a poster is just curt or if they are mean spirited. I choose to take the high road (most of the time) and assume that 'we will have to agree to disagree' and move on, If that doesn't work there is an ignore feature.

My post is offered with only good will.This is not meant as a lecture nor do I have any authority over what others post.:seeya:

:cow:

Yes, welcome to our new WS member StrangeOne!

Myztery, as for professional killers not leaving children and dogs alive, I'm not sure that's accurate. Professional killers don't stick to hard and fast rules about those things. As someone here once pointed out, child killers face a rough time in prison if caught. It's likely these professionals felt no need to kill children and wished to avoid that fate in prison if caught.

As for the dogs and family and friends being involved, why would close family and friends (LM, BJM and DS) go to such great lengths to tell LE and the news media that someone had to know the family or the dogs would have attacked them? Doing so would only direct suspicion towards them. More likely, if family & friends were involved, they would have told LE that the dogs were not dangerous to strangers.

Time and again, family and close friends have emphasized the killers knew the dogs and the homes. They wouldn't bring suspicion upon themselves by repeating that so often.

As for locking doors behind them, the killers did that to delay discovering the bodies long enough for them to get rid of evidence and get out of the area. Since there were so many killings in different locations, probably with at least 2 teams, they had used up a lot of time. It was getting close to dawn, they were in a remote area on windy back roads. They planned to use the quickest way to slow down discovery of the bodies to allow escape. Obviously they wouldn't have time to hide the bodies, but they could lock the doors and possibly trick people for a little while into thinking the family was asleep or not at home. Just a quick and easy way to buy a little time to get out of the area.

JMO

 

[Nickandnora]

I'm not sure about a danger to the children per se, but it was believed the custody issue with the Wagner family (father of Hanna Rhoden's older daughter) may be relevant. LM and others alluded to a fight over child custody and many believe it's possible that could have been part of the motivation for the murders. Along those lines, there's a theory that the Wagner family was also involved in some form of illegal activity. Their escalating fight to gain full custody of the daughter (S) may have set off a disagreement and threats over illegal business between the elder Wagners and Rhodens.

It could have resulted in the Wagners calling higher ups to tell them that CRSr was going to reveal some information about their business. That would have brought the murders, involving both W's and higher level criminal players. Remember, LE did say they were keeping a "laser focus" on the W family.

ETA: Keep in mind LE is free to lie during these investigations in order to flush out culprits or protect information. They do it all the time. They're not required to be honest with the public until they arrest someone and bring them to court.

I have only heard rumours of a custody dispute and they have come from the M side of the family. At that time RAC was involved in one also and the charges Dana had brought against her was not going to help.
Lasar focus could work 2 ways one they think they are guilty of something,two LE is doing surveillance on them to flush out who might come after them.

 

[StrangeOne]

A belated welcome to Websleuths :welcome: like yourself this raid and mass extermination is so sinister that I for one cannot get my head around it.

The collective depravity & the perps ability to penetrate and enter homes undetected,neutralize the dogs,thwart the security cameras,shoot their victims then just disappear as if they were almost supernatural.Thus leaving only a bewildered BJM (exception is KR)the next morning to discover the grisly murders after using a key or otherwise gaining entry to their individual locked doors. What professional hit team would be so invested as to leave a CS from outward appearances even down to locking individual doors behind them with the children and dogs left unharmed?A profession hit or cartel would execute & look at dogs or children harmed as collateral damage. No, as LE has stated this execution was personal and if the local community has any information they are not sharing it.

Websleuths has TOS Rules. The standard for posting is when stating something as fact to always include a link from a major media source.The preferred way to handle unpleasantness if diplomacy does not work is to use 'alert' symbol to notify the mods. If TOS Rules have been broken it is for the mods to determine how they wish to proceed. This hopefully prevents posters from becoming nasty to each other.

My final thought after my lengthy post is 'it is difficult' to determine if a poster is just curt or if they are mean spirited. I choose to take the high road (most of the time) and assume that 'we will have to agree to disagree' and move on, If that doesn't work there is an ignore feature.

My post is offered with only good will.This is not meant as a lecture nor do I have any authority over what others post.:seeya:

:cow:

Thank you for your advice. I hope in the future when I ask questions I don't offend anyone. It is not what I want to do.

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[rsd1200]

This is so overwhelming to me that eight people in one family can be systimaticly be taken out and nothing from LE. Since the year that it happened has there been any activity from them at all?

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We're coming up on two years now.

 

[amauet1]

I to would like to extend a "welcome" to all new comers! Sometimes I have interpreted someone being rude to me, when all they were doing was helping me find things I needed or pointing me in the correct direction. It's hard to tell when reading a conversation because there's no inflection in written words. We all respect and welcome any new views.

 

[amauet1]

We're coming up on two years now.

Nice to see you! I was beginning to think you'd had enough and left!

 

[rsd1200]

I feel like I have commented about every news piece released over the first year. I was going to list my favorite readings to the benefit of others still searching. I will eventually do that.

Then I found this video I had never seen before. It spoke to me.

"More questions than answers". A family member speaks of dreams and nightmares. https://www.cincinnati.com/videos/news/2017/06/19/pike-county-mass-shooting/83446766/

I remember that one. Interesting interview.

 

[MizStery]

Yes, welcome to our new WS member StrangeOne!

Myztery, as for professional killers not leaving children and dogs alive, I'm not sure that's accurate. Professional killers don't stick to hard and fast rules about those things. As someone here once pointed out, child killers face a rough time in prison if caught. It's likely these professionals felt no need to kill children and wished to avoid that fate in prison if caught.

As for the dogs and family and friends being involved, why would close family and friends (LM, BJM and DS) go to such great lengths to tell LE and the news media that someone had to know the family or the dogs would have attacked them? Doing so would only direct suspicion towards them. More likely, if family & friends were involved, they would have told LE that the dogs were not dangerous to strangers.

Time and again, family and close friends have emphasized the killers knew the dogs and the homes. They wouldn't bring suspicion upon themselves by repeating that so often.

As for locking doors behind them, the killers did that to delay discovering the bodies long enough for them to get rid of evidence and get out of the area. Since there were so many killings in different locations, probably with at least 2 teams, they had used up a lot of time. It was getting close to dawn, they were in a remote area on windy back roads. They planned to use the quickest way to slow down discovery of the bodies to allow escape. Obviously they wouldn't have time to hide the bodies, but they could lock the doors and possibly trick people for a little while into thinking the family was asleep or not at home. Just a quick and easy way to buy a little time to get out of the area.

JMO

Ah,you have already make a great point. If indeed this was ordered by someone else higher up in the food chain;just perhaps there were locals(s) contracted to do the unthinkable.

Folowing that logic could these 'people contracted' to execute the family be from the surroundings area? That possibly would explain 'their' intimate knowledge of the property layout having worked for CRsr operation. Another possibility is they were associated & friendly with family members through various side businesses (cars,roosters) or from extended family.

How convenient then 'these' contracted locals would already be familiar with the cameras,the dogs and the locations of family members homes. It is not out of the realm of possibility that at least one of the perps may have been spurned or were even engaged in a custody battle with the some of the family. Following that logic perhaps because of shared custody 'it' would not be suspicious for one of them to have been at the CS in the hours leading up to the murders.That would explain the vibe I have of someone being a mole.

I will go back and reread some of my notes. Does anyone else suspect that the perps could be locals who had a long history of engaging or 'thought' to be capable of carrying out hits?Did anyone afterwards seem to be flush with cash & is it a stretch from their meager holdings that they would suddenly come into a windfall?

This post is not based on anything other than considering & responding to Betty P post.

:cow:

 

[rsd1200]

I agree, the case is connected to someone who knows all the victims and the properties, police have stated that too.

For example, someone locked CS1's trailer when they left, and either had a key or knew where it was kept and put it back. Only someone with very intimate knowledge of the home could do that.

There was a key kept outside, as BJM said she knew where it was. When she pulled up she noted the two dogs sitting in a recliner on the porch, and thought that to be odd as they were always inside. The door was locked, odd also. So she got the key. However, they could have locked the front door, and went out the back door, especially if it's getting a bit light and worried about cars going by. We don't know what time they hit CR1 and GR.

 

[rsd1200]

My point about KR is that, any theory about motive has to include an explanation of why his home/he was targetted as well, especially as it involved driving to a different area.

- Custody of a child: Why kill one of the child's great uncles?

- MJ grow op? Why kill a guy who didn't live there, and apparently earned his living with a full time job? If there was evidence he was a business partner, making money from it, that would support the cartel hit theory. But his daughter says not. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/10/2...it-on-ohio-family-6-months-after-murders.html

- personal vendetta against CS1? Why kill one of his brothers too? Again, if there was evidence they were both particular enemies of someone, that would strengthen the suspicion against that person.

- then there is the suggestion that KM was perhaps involved in the other deaths, and was afterwards eliminated. Then his movements, connections, relationship with CS1, would be absolutely key to solving the case.

BBM
KR had a tray of plants at his place. He was known to grow to supplement his income.

 

[rsd1200]

Unless it is a deadbolt lock, you don't need a key to lock a door when you leave. You push the button or turn the lock in the knob and close the door.

These were all older trailers too, and having lived in a couple back in my footloose years, I can verify that this is true.

 

[rsd1200]

Other than the dogs did they really have security? Guns maybe because a lot of people in Appalachia do. Even though Pike County Ohio is to far north for me its still part of Appalachia. I don't think the Rhoden's even saw this coming. Whatever this was over the Rhoden's who died were a part of it. Three different homes were hit. Thats three times the risk to whoever did this. The people were bad so very bad for what they did but not bad enough to murder babies. CRj is a child in our eyes but old enough to know who it was killing his family and maybe even old enough to be a part of the reason it happened so he had to be taken out. Whoever did this knew the lay of the trailers and truth be told knew who to take out first. DR was awake when this went down. If that was the case how did everyone else not hear the gun shots? Silencers? Were there two groups of killers hitting at the same time? What about the dogs?

These are all questions rolling through my mind.

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Gunshots are common in Appalachia, however, they are muffled when shot inside a building, any sound that gets out will be further stunted by trees and hillsides and the exterior of other folks homes, who are sleeping. Folks don't even know what they are if they do hear them outside, many times. Also, the neighbors aren't that close.

The only dogs LE had trouble with that day was KR's dog Brownie. DS restrained her so they could go into this camper. If LE didn't have trouble with them then I'd guess that the assailant(s) didn't either. Lots of folks say that their dogs will "eat you alive" to keep folks from prowling around, when in fact, if a dog is used to a lot of folks coming around, the aren't that viscous at all.