OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[Betty P]

Raisin, I thought she meant the Beast story, that was just me though.

Yes, Raisin & rsd1200, you're right. The Beast story ignited a visceral reaction in me. I found it very offensive and inaccurate in the message it was trying to push. My apologies to anyone I offended. It was not my intention.

I realize people have a tendency to focus on the peers of the Rhoden kids and family, but I don't think that's where we'll find the killers. As many experts have acknowledged, including Dr. Cyril Wecht, there may have been someone close to the family who, inadvertently or intentionally, provided information to the people higher up the food chain who wanted to massacre the family.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-investigation-scientists-work-cops/84433990/

Cyril Wecht, a forensic pathologist and lawyer who has served as a consultant on numerous murder cases, agreed.

"This was planned and organized,'' he said, adding that he thinks perhaps someone close to the victims might have supplied information to the killers, either intentionally or unwittingly.

Both Fox and Wecht agreed one person was the prime target. The other victims were "secondary victims" -- either they could identify the killers or knew information that could easily lead police on their trail.

"Some were killed to cover up what they knew," Fox said. "This seems more punishing then message sending."

Wecht: "One person got involved in something way over their head and into dangerous games, with the big boys, made threats and then: 'OK, buddy that's it then. I can't run the risk of killing you and leaving your kinfolk alive.'"

BBM.

It seems unlikely that would be a bunch of high school kids or friends of the Rhoden children. If the trigger was CR1, GR or KR getting involved in something new (possibly hard drugs) or if they were being pressured to do so and refused, the people we need to find are the ones who had the power and resources to organize, plan and fund the hit.

The people who've had the most "focus" from LE who also had the most knowledge of Rhoden's daily activities and were the least likely to care if the whole family was killed would be the W family, JMO. They may not be the only suspects for that link, but they're the strongest.

As near as we can tell, the W's weren't involved in cockfighting or demo derby activities, so the connection has to be in MJ, hard drug trafficking, money laundering or some combination of those.

LE has been gathering DNA for going on 2 years. They've had to have made hundreds of comparisons already, if not more.

What they're looking for is not the DNA of the snitch/low level informant. They're looking for a DNA match to the actual killers. JMO, the actual killers had likely never been in the homes before. They were working from sketches and descriptions provided through surveillance. There may have been a bit of drive by traffic and other surveillance in the weeks leading up to the killings.

JMO, I'm still thinking of JW as the most likely low level informant. Others here may think it's someone else. But the big question is - who did these people know? Someone higher than JW or someone similar were the ones who wanted the Rhodens killed.

What activities was the informant involved in that brought them in contact with dangerous people willing to massacre an entire family?

What did the target of the killings do?


What activity did they threaten or engage in that set off a murder spree that was extremely risky for the people who wanted them dead? It had to be something major, like snitching to someone in LE or engaging in a major theft from the "big bosses".

Refusing to get involved in selling hard drugs, or backing out of that activity would have been dangerous. But was it enough to force the higher ups to kill 8 people? Maybe, maybe not. I'm going with snitching to LE, most likely to the Feds. If it was theft of money or drugs, would that be enough to kill all 8?


Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?


Back to the DNA. They've tested a lot of people close to the family and many involved in the local drug biz. If the actual killers DNA was likely not already in the homes (otherwise they wouldn't have needed someone close to the family to help with surveillance and planning), shouldn't we be ruling out a lot of local people?

Do you think the DNA of the killers that LE may have found at the scene matched any they found at similar murders in the area?

Just some questions to ponder. Sorry if I was abrupt, but it seems a waste of time to keep talking about anyone the Rhoden kids were selling pot to in the neighborhood. Powerful pros able to put together a major hit on 8 people aren't going to be messing with high school kids and local junkies to help put their plan in action.

 

[Satchie]

Yes, to me it does rasin, I saw FR's "friends list" from facebook and he had over 1000 friends. I know that "kids" usually accept friend request's by just sending them. But as a person who used to be "in the life" of drugs, this seems an unusual amount to me. JMO

I'm having difficulty following the connection between the number of facebook friends someone has, and whether or not they deal drugs. Do you mean people friend other people because they buy drugs from them? Or that a dealer requires their buyers to 'friend' them on facebook before they'll sell to them? Are you saying that facebook is the primary network for dealing drugs? Like, you post on there where and what you're selling so that your "friends", ie buyers, can more easily purchase from you? So buyers (and police) can know all about you, and your girlfriend and baby, etc?

 

[Betty P]

BBM
The question was not directed to me, but... for me, it's because of zero disclosure from LE that they were pill dealers. LE loves to explode the numbers and worth of pot plants or anything else they find. If they were into pills, big time, we'd have seen more statements like, It appears some of the victims were trafficking drugs. They'd not have been specific to weed.

I'm inclined to agree with you. If Rhodens were involved in pills/heroin/meth in a big way, LE probably would have revealed that information publicly. I can't see any benefit for LE to reveal MJ grow ops, but keep info about hard drugs dealing secret. Everyone knows hard drugs are all over that region and they make multiple busts and have tragic OD's all the time.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

BBM
The question was not directed to me, but... for me, it's because of zero disclosure from LE that they were pill dealers. LE loves to explode the numbers and worth of pot plants or anything else they find. If they were into pills, big time, we'd have seen more statements like, It appears some of the victims were trafficking drugs. They'd not have been specific to weed.

But if they are using these murders and the knowledge they have gained from the investigation to make drug busts would they be putting it out there? I feel like LE has not put anything out to the public that they didn't have to. In other words they are not letting any of these people they are gaining knowledge about know they have that knowledge. Only when they are cornered by someone (reporters) do they give out a small amount of info. e.g. DeWine with his "laser focus". Just think about the time and money that went into a year long fight over the autopsies. They don't want even the tiniest of information released. Most of what we have learned has been from LM. Now not even he is talking. But yet we see more and more drug busts in the area.

So I am not certain that LE is following the usual pattern here.

 

[Betty P]

I'm having difficulty following the connection between the number of facebook friends someone has, and whether or not they deal drugs. Do you mean people only friend other people because they buy drugs from them? Or that a dealer requires their buyers to 'friend' them on facebook before they'll sell to them? Are you saying that facebook is the primary network for dealing drugs? Like, you post on there where and what you're selling so that your "friends", ie buyers, can more easily purchase from you? So buyers (and police) can know all about you, and your girlfriend and baby, etc?

JMO, the lack of info from LE encouraged a lot of people following this case to begin focusing very heavily on the victims' Facebook and other social media accounts. For whatever reason, those victim accounts were left open. People did seem to pick up a little relevant information, but it seems easy to go down the "rabbit hole" so to speak on trying to read too much into those SM accounts.

 

[amauet1]

That statement, I'll not give it the compliment of calling it "journalism", makes my blood boil. The author, and I use the term loosely, literally oozes, with disdain. *advertiser censored** him. (This is not intended toward you in any way Dudly.)

Love that last sentence! Poor Dudley! LOL

 

[Betty P]

But if they are using these murders and the knowledge they have gained from the investigation to make drug busts would they be putting it out there? I feel like LE has not put anything out to the public that they didn't have to. In other words they are not letting any of these people they are gaining knowledge about know they have that knowledge. Only when they are cornered by someone (reporters) do they give out a small amount of info. e.g. DeWine with his "laser focus". Just think about the time and money that went into a year long fight over the autopsies. They don't want even the tiniest of information released. Most of what we have learned has been from LM. Now not even he is talking. But yet we see more and more drug busts in the area.

So I am not certain that LE is following the usual pattern here.

Agree, all very good points. If LE has a pattern, it may not involve solving the murders /s. The only pattern I've noticed, as the rest of you have, is keeping the details of the case & investigation sown up as much as possible. Are they still trying advertise the reward for information? Have they tried to raise money to increase the reward?

When was the last time they made a public appeal for more information or tips? After they raided the W's family farms?

When was the last time they gave an update on the case? It's been a while.

And yes, the time,money and effort they put into fighting the newspapers on the ARs. If you read the depositions and case files, you'll realize they spent almost as much time and money on that effort as they did on the investigation.

 

[RAISINISBACK]

That statement, I'll not give it the compliment of calling it "journalism", makes my blood boil. The author, and I use the term loosely, literally oozes, with disdain. *advertiser censored** him. (This is not intended toward you in any way Dudly.)

But does the fact that the guy was a total jerk mean that he reported what the young smoker said incorrectly?

Everything in a murder investigation is important and worth the time taken to think it over. That young man may have been involved and that's why only he knew about the pills. What he said may have been a giveaway.

Then again maybe he was talking about Josh R who we know sold pills because he was arrested for doing so.

 

[amauet1]

Yes, Raisin & rsd1200, you're right. The Beast story ignited a visceral reaction in me. I found it very offensive and inaccurate in the message it was trying to push. My apologies to anyone I offended. It was not my intention.

I realize people have a tendency to focus on the peers of the Rhoden kids and family, but I don't think that's where we'll find the killers. As many experts have acknowledged, including Dr. Cyril Wecht, there may have been someone close to the family who, inadvertently or intentionally, provided information to the people higher up the food chain who wanted to massacre the family.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-investigation-scientists-work-cops/84433990/



BBM.

It seems unlikely that would be a bunch of high school kids or friends of the Rhoden children. If the trigger was CR1, GR or KR getting involved in something new (possibly hard drugs) or if they were being pressured to do so and refused, the people we need to find are the ones who had the power and resources to organize, plan and fund the hit.

The people who've had the most "focus" from LE who also had the most knowledge of Rhoden's daily activities and were the least likely to care if the whole family was killed would be the W family, JMO. They may not be the only suspects for that link, but they're the strongest.

As near as we can tell, the W's weren't involved in cockfighting or demo derby activities, so the connection has to be in MJ, hard drug trafficking, money laundering or some combination of those.

LE has been gathering DNA for going on 2 years. They've had to have made hundreds of comparisons already, if not more.

What they're looking for is not the DNA of the snitch/low level informant. They're looking for a DNA match to the actual killers. JMO, the actual killers had likely never been in the homes before. They were working from sketches and descriptions provided through surveillance. There may have been a bit of drive by traffic and other surveillance in the weeks leading up to the killings.

JMO, I'm still thinking of JW as the most likely low level informant. Others here may think it's someone else. But the big question is - who did these people know? Someone higher than JW or someone similar were the ones who wanted the Rhodens killed.

What activities was the informant involved in that brought them in contact with dangerous people willing to massacre an entire family?

What did the target of the killings do?


What activity did they threaten or engage in that set off a murder spree that was extremely risky for the people who wanted them dead? It had to be something major, like snitching to someone in LE or engaging in a major theft from the "big bosses".

Refusing to get involved in selling hard drugs, or backing out of that activity would have been dangerous. But was it enough to force the higher ups to kill 8 people? Maybe, maybe not. I'm going with snitching to LE, most likely to the Feds. If it was theft of money or drugs, would that be enough to kill all 8?


Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?


Back to the DNA. They've tested a lot of people close to the family and many involved in the local drug biz. If the actual killers DNA was likely not already in the homes (otherwise they wouldn't have needed someone close to the family to help with surveillance and planning), shouldn't we be ruling out a lot of local people?

Do you think the DNA of the killers that LE may have found at the scene matched any they found at similar murders in the area?

Just some questions to ponder. Sorry if I was abrupt, but it seems a waste of time to keep talking about anyone the Rhoden kids were selling pot to in the neighborhood. Powerful pros able to put together a major hit on 8 people aren't going to be messing with high school kids and local junkies to help put their plan in action.

I agree with the snitching threat.

 

[Dudly]

If it was family, friends, or associates, of the victims, then their DNA will be there in those homes or they'll have an excuse for it being there, and a cover already in place.

However, from the link below (which gives detail about local dna gathering at scenes too):

Sometimes, investigators have DNA evidence but no suspects. In that case, law enforcement officials can compare crime scene DNA to profiles stored in a database. Databases can be maintained at the local level (the crime lab of a sheriff's office, for example) or at the state level. A state-level database is known as a State DNA index system (SDIS). It contains forensic profiles from local laboratories in that state, plus forensic profiles analyzed by the state laboratory itself. The state database also contains DNA profiles of convicted offenders. Finally, DNA profiles from the states feed into the National DNA Index System (NDIS).

https://science.howstuffworks.com/life/genetic/dna-evidence4.htm

They do familial DNA searches now, too. They try to find someone who could be related to the unknown DNA. They surely know something....

 

[Dudly]

Love that last sentence! Poor Dudley! LOL

Why's everybody always pickin' on me.... lol

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Yes, Raisin & rsd1200, you're right. The Beast story ignited a visceral reaction in me. I found it very offensive and inaccurate in the message it was trying to push. My apologies to anyone I offended. It was not my intention.

I realize people have a tendency to focus on the peers of the Rhoden kids and family, but I don't think that's where we'll find the killers. As many experts have acknowledged, including Dr. Cyril Wecht, there may have been someone close to the family who, inadvertently or intentionally, provided information to the people higher up the food chain who wanted to massacre the family.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-investigation-scientists-work-cops/84433990/



BBM.

It seems unlikely that would be a bunch of high school kids or friends of the Rhoden children. If the trigger was CR1, GR or KR getting involved in something new (possibly hard drugs) or if they were being pressured to do so and refused, the people we need to find are the ones who had the power and resources to organize, plan and fund the hit.

The people who've had the most "focus" from LE who also had the most knowledge of Rhoden's daily activities and were the least likely to care if the whole family was killed would be the W family, JMO. They may not be the only suspects for that link, but they're the strongest.

As near as we can tell, the W's weren't involved in cockfighting or demo derby activities, so the connection has to be in MJ, hard drug trafficking, money laundering or some combination of those.

LE has been gathering DNA for going on 2 years. They've had to have made hundreds of comparisons already, if not more.

What they're looking for is not the DNA of the snitch/low level informant. They're looking for a DNA match to the actual killers. JMO, the actual killers had likely never been in the homes before. They were working from sketches and descriptions provided through surveillance. There may have been a bit of drive by traffic and other surveillance in the weeks leading up to the killings.

JMO, I'm still thinking of JW as the most likely low level informant. Others here may think it's someone else. But the big question is - who did these people know? Someone higher than JW or someone similar were the ones who wanted the Rhodens killed.

What activities was the informant involved in that brought them in contact with dangerous people willing to massacre an entire family?

What did the target of the killings do?


What activity did they threaten or engage in that set off a murder spree that was extremely risky for the people who wanted them dead? It had to be something major, like snitching to someone in LE or engaging in a major theft from the "big bosses".

Refusing to get involved in selling hard drugs, or backing out of that activity would have been dangerous. But was it enough to force the higher ups to kill 8 people? Maybe, maybe not. I'm going with snitching to LE, most likely to the Feds. If it was theft of money or drugs, would that be enough to kill all 8?


Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?


Back to the DNA. They've tested a lot of people close to the family and many involved in the local drug biz. If the actual killers DNA was likely not already in the homes (otherwise they wouldn't have needed someone close to the family to help with surveillance and planning), shouldn't we be ruling out a lot of local people?

Do you think the DNA of the killers that LE may have found at the scene matched any they found at similar murders in the area?

Just some questions to ponder. Sorry if I was abrupt, but it seems a waste of time to keep talking about anyone the Rhoden kids were selling pot to in the neighborhood. Powerful pros able to put together a major hit on 8 people aren't going to be messing with high school kids and local junkies to help put their plan in action.

Betty your next door neighbor will break in your house and kill you over a bottle of Oxycontin. When people get addicted to that stuff they get desperate. And desperate people do desperate things. If local kids heard he was selling pills and had a lot on hand and were addicted enough and desperate enough to get the drug then yes I can see them breaking into CR1's trailer and killing him for it. I can also see them going to FR's and DR's place when they didn't find it at CR1's. Even to KR's place. I am not saying this is what happened. But the fact that rumor that the R's were selling pills was swirling around means something. In my opinion where there is smoke there is fire.

I am saying that every little piece of information in a murder case is important. This young smoker seems to be the only one who knew about the pills or the only one willing to talk about them. It could be important.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Why's everybody always pickin' on me.... lol

Isn't that a country song? LOL

 

[Betty P]

Isn't that a country song? LOL

My favorite song when I was about 5 yrs old.

The Coasters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t7GNMlDb_I

Who calls the English teacher "Daddy-O"?

 

[rsd1200]

Yes, Raisin & rsd1200, you're right. The Beast story ignited a visceral reaction in me. I found it very offensive and inaccurate in the message it was trying to push. My apologies to anyone I offended. It was not my intention.

I realize people have a tendency to focus on the peers of the Rhoden kids and family, but I don't think that's where we'll find the killers. As many experts have acknowledged, including Dr. Cyril Wecht, there may have been someone close to the family who, inadvertently or intentionally, provided information to the people higher up the food chain who wanted to massacre the family.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/ne...-investigation-scientists-work-cops/84433990/



BBM.

It seems unlikely that would be a bunch of high school kids or friends of the Rhoden children. If the trigger was CR1, GR or KR getting involved in something new (possibly hard drugs) or if they were being pressured to do so and refused, the people we need to find are the ones who had the power and resources to organize, plan and fund the hit.

The people who've had the most "focus" from LE who also had the most knowledge of Rhoden's daily activities and were the least likely to care if the whole family was killed would be the W family, JMO. They may not be the only suspects for that link, but they're the strongest.

As near as we can tell, the W's weren't involved in cockfighting or demo derby activities, so the connection has to be in MJ, hard drug trafficking, money laundering or some combination of those.

LE has been gathering DNA for going on 2 years. They've had to have made hundreds of comparisons already, if not more.

What they're looking for is not the DNA of the snitch/low level informant. They're looking for a DNA match to the actual killers. JMO, the actual killers had likely never been in the homes before. They were working from sketches and descriptions provided through surveillance. There may have been a bit of drive by traffic and other surveillance in the weeks leading up to the killings.

JMO, I'm still thinking of JW as the most likely low level informant. Others here may think it's someone else. But the big question is - who did these people know? Someone higher than JW or someone similar were the ones who wanted the Rhodens killed.

What activities was the informant involved in that brought them in contact with dangerous people willing to massacre an entire family?

What did the target of the killings do?


What activity did they threaten or engage in that set off a murder spree that was extremely risky for the people who wanted them dead? It had to be something major, like snitching to someone in LE or engaging in a major theft from the "big bosses".

Refusing to get involved in selling hard drugs, or backing out of that activity would have been dangerous. But was it enough to force the higher ups to kill 8 people? Maybe, maybe not. I'm going with snitching to LE, most likely to the Feds. If it was theft of money or drugs, would that be enough to kill all 8?


Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?


Back to the DNA. They've tested a lot of people close to the family and many involved in the local drug biz. If the actual killers DNA was likely not already in the homes (otherwise they wouldn't have needed someone close to the family to help with surveillance and planning), shouldn't we be ruling out a lot of local people?

Do you think the DNA of the killers that LE may have found at the scene matched any they found at similar murders in the area?

Just some questions to ponder. Sorry if I was abrupt, but it seems a waste of time to keep talking about anyone the Rhoden kids were selling pot to in the neighborhood. Powerful pros able to put together a major hit on 8 people aren't going to be messing with high school kids and local junkies to help put their plan in action.

What did the target of the killings do?

I know that it could be many things that were the impetus for the murders, however, knowing folks who have been incarcerated for being users, and dealers, over the years (Some, I was just totally shocked, when I learned of the busts! Totally. We are talking the least likely persons, one would think of being big time dealers). Not one, ever went back, after being released, and killed the snitch (not saying it doesn't happen, I've just not seen it play out). Now, with that said, and again, broken record, I've known of folks who have had very bad experiences, when they attempted to pull out of something, for which they'd not realized what they'd gotten into, till too late. It's not about losing an employee, it's about liability. I really do think this may have been a possibility.

I also know that, call it what you will, but folks will take justice into their own hands. They believe in the eye for an eye, philosophy. Did one or more, of them ruin someone's family, or life?

Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?

The DNA could be in the banks, but, the person may not have ever been arrested for anything, thus, they'd not have any matching data. I've mentioned this before, but there was a murder in a county, in my state, that took several years to solve b/c all they had was bit of DNA left at the scene. They killed two young boys over drugs. Years later they catch the guy at a break-in, (iirc), and DNA'd him, and it popped up in the banks as a match to the dna, left at the murder site, years prior. Those parents had bought billboards, 1-800 #s, put up rewards, and nothing. The killer was not even of age at the time of the murder, but were in their 20s, when caught.

Just some old thoughts, brought forward. Sorry, I know I'm a broken record.

 

[Satchie]

The people we need to find are the ones who had the power and resources to organize, plan and fund the hit.

RSBM

I don't think that's the only possible scenario for this crime.

So many cases on Websleuths, and in real life, are the result of the baffling behaviour of losers with guns, who have decided to make their mark on the world by killing someone or some people. It makes no sense, it's not rationale, it's not in their own interest. It seems, the less power and resources they have, the more likely they are to kill.

Some of them are suicidal or nuts, like the numerous high school, etc shooters, and don't mind dying in the process. Some do care about getting caught, and plan the crime to avoid it. I think the thrill is definitely part of it: getting it right, mission accomplished, getting away with it.

I could go into lots of examples, but I'll just cite the first well known one, the Clutter family massacre described in In Cold Blood.

It seems quite possible to me that a couple of young psychopaths got together and did this primarily for the thrill, and ended up picking the Rs just because one or both knew the details of their living situation, and didn't like them

Also, in terms of LE keeping quiet, I think that's increasingly standard operating procedure now. The reason is that people will confess to crimes they haven't committed, and be really persuasive about it, especially if police are feeling anxious to solve the crime.

Then, in some cases, they turn around and sue police for millions for wrongful persecution.

For example, in the Waddell Buddhist Temple massacre of 9 monks, by two stupid teens, a group of 4 young men who confessed, but were then exonerated, were awarded $2.8 million in an out of court settlement. http://www.miranda-vs-arizona.com/220FalseConfessionsTheTucsonFour.htm

So I think police services have learned to keep most of it back, to ensure the case doesn't get bungled by false confessions.

 

[Betty P]

Betty your next door neighbor will break in your house and kill you over a bottle of Oxycontin. When people get addicted to that stuff they get desperate. And desperate people do desperate things. If local kids heard he was selling pills and had a lot on hand and were addicted enough and desperate enough to get the drug then yes I can see them breaking into CR1's trailer and killing him for it. I can also see them going to FR's and DR's place when they didn't find it at CR1's. Even to KR's place. I am not saying this is what happened. But the fact that rumor that the R's were selling pills was swirling around means something. In my opinion where there is smoke there is fire.

I am saying that every little piece of information in a murder case is important. This young smoker seems to be the only one who knew about the pills or the only one willing to talk about them. It could be important.

JMO

Raisin, I agree, all the pieces of evidence are important. At some point, though, we have to start prioritizing suspects and scenarios. JMO, the idea of some junkie breaking into CR1's home, fighting him and Gary and killing them seems a stretch. That they would continue down the road and successfully repeat the process at the other three homes seems even more unlikely. He would be high or in withdrawal, clothes, hair, car covered in blood, exhausted both physically and mentally. Junkies are not known to keep secrets very well.

Their main focus is on chasing the next high, not concentrating on cleaning up multiple crime scenes, getting rid of evidence or concocting a solid enough alibi to fool all the top LE investigators in the state. They also likely hang out with other junkies and would share information or be unable to hide what they did. Drug addicts are also notoriously untrustworthy. They'll say anything to LE if it gets them out of trouble or closer to their next fix. They'll sell out their own mother for drugs. They usually don't have the resources to get out of town. LE knows their weaknesses and how to exploit them. Drug addicts are the last people I would think capable of pulling this off and keeping it secret for 2 yrs.

But to be fair, how do you think they could rise above typical addict behavior to pull this off and keep it quiet?

 

[rsd1200]

But if they are using these murders and the knowledge they have gained from the investigation to make drug busts would they be putting it out there? I feel like LE has not put anything out to the public that they didn't have to. In other words they are not letting any of these people they are gaining knowledge about know they have that knowledge. Only when they are cornered by someone (reporters) do they give out a small amount of info. e.g. DeWine with his "laser focus". Just think about the time and money that went into a year long fight over the autopsies. They don't want even the tiniest of information released. Most of what we have learned has been from LM. Now not even he is talking. But yet we see more and more drug busts in the area.

So I am not certain that LE is following the usual pattern here.

I understand your viewpoint, but, I don't believe that would be the case. They had to know releasing the weed would totally turrn folks view, if they didn't then they were ignorant to their own region, well, Dewine, sigh... but Reader should have known, and maybe didn't realize what Dewine (iirc he's the one who ran his mouth off), would reveal the weed. However it sure did make folks step back it seems. Not that they hated the family but, just coming in with info, could mean, to LE, that you had dealings with them that were illegal, even if all you did was go fishing with them.

No, around here, if they pick up a 1/4 ounce of weed, ten pills, and a few hundred dollars, you'd think they just busted the Sinaloa Cartel. Seriously, the bragging, on their LE FB page, is embarrassing to watch. I truly don't think DeWine could have contained himself.

 

[Betty P]

What did the target of the killings do?

I know that it could be many things that were the impetus for the murders, however, knowing folks who have been incarcerated for being users, and dealers, over the years (Some, I was just totally shocked, when I learned of the busts! Totally. We are talking the least likely persons, one would think of being big time dealers). Not one, ever went back, after being released, and killed the snitch (not saying it doesn't happen, I've just not seen it play out). Now, with that said, and again, broken record, I've known of folks who have had very bad experiences, when they attempted to pull out of something, for which they'd not realized what they'd gotten into, till too late. It's not about losing an employee, it's about liability. I really do think this may have been a possibility.

I also know that, call it what you will, but folks will take justice into their own hands. They believe in the eye for an eye, philosophy. Did one or more, of them ruin someone's family, or life?

Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?

The DNA could be in the banks, but, the person may not have ever been arrested for anything, thus, they'd not have any matching data. I've mentioned this before, but there was a murder in a county, in my state, that took several years to solve b/c all they had was bit of DNA left at the scene. They killed two young boys over drugs. Years later they catch the guy at a break-in, (iirc), and DNA'd him, and it popped up in the banks as a match to the dna, left at the murder site, years prior. Those parents had bought billboards, 1-800 #s, put up rewards, and nothing. The killer was not even of age at the time of the murder, but were in their 20s, when caught.

Just some old thoughts, brought forward. Sorry, I know I'm a broken record.

Those are all very good points, rsd1200. That leaves us with the possibility that the killers were people who

#1 may not have been from the area or well known to anyone in the community

#2 were someone who hasn't had enough interaction with the criminal justice system to have DNA on file

It also fits with Satch's example of the Clutter family murders. Perry and Dick could have gotten away with murder (if their old prison bunkmate hadn't talked) because they weren't from the area where the murder took place. Neither of them had ever been to Holcomb or Garden City. None of the local criminal element (if there were any) would have known who they were.

Today, fortunately, we have DNA technology and CODIS, which makes it easier to track down killers if they leave some trace behind. But they have to have encountered the US criminal justice system at some time.

What are the odds that these killers left some usable DNA evidence behind? There were 4 different crime scenes, so an increased chance of doing that. If they were wearing gloves, seems like they would have had to change them as they would get soaked or torn. If they were involved with an altercation with CR1 (which seems possible from his wounds), they may have been injured. How possible is it they left DNA or fingerprints on the ammo they used?

What about the car(s) they used? LE may have gathered that info during their campaign to ask the public to turn in any security video they had. If they were local, what did they do with a car that was probably covered in blood and DNA? LE probably checked all the stolen cars in the area during that time. If the killers were local, wouldn't someone have noticed the condition of their car?

I'm just asking a lot of questions here. Brainstorming. Does it seem more likely these killers weren't local?

 

[rsd1200]

Love that last sentence! Poor Dudley! LOL

:laughing: Sorry guys. I get heated, every. single. time. I read that story. Again, sorry Dudly. I have brought it forward too, but oh, how I hate that article.