OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

[rsd1200]

But does the fact that the guy was a total jerk mean that he reported what the young smoker said incorrectly?

Everything in a murder investigation is important and worth the time taken to think it over. That young man may have been involved and that's why only he knew about the pills. What he said may have been a giveaway.

Then again maybe he was talking about Josh R who we know sold pills because he was arrested for doing so.

I'd bet a dime to a donut, they were screwin' with him. Reporters were everywhere, and doesn't the Daily Mail pay for info? Could be why DS was on their front page so quickly.

 

[rsd1200]

Isn't that a country song? LOL

Charlie Brown by the Coasters.

 

[rsd1200]

My favorite song when I was about 5 yrs old.

The Coasters

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-t7GNMlDb_I

Who calls the English teacher "Daddy-O"?

Always made me think of gettin' caught smokin' in school.

 

[smitty1234]

I would still like to see the proof of the actual grow-ops ! Something hasn't been right about this case from the beginning !

 

[FrankieT]

Thank Y'all for keeping this conversation going. I read every post, but I have nothing to add, except my thanks. Many times I wake up during the night and think of the Rhodens. I can't hardly stand that a family was wiped out and all this time has passed and the murder/s haven't been caught. No matter what they may have been into, it is a dirty shame for it to go unsolved.

 

[amauet1]

From when we were talking about pill mills and illegal things going on. https://www.americanbar.org/content/newsletter it's interesting reading.

 

[rsd1200]

RSBM

I don't think that's the only possible scenario for this crime.

So many cases on Websleuths, and in real life, are the result of the baffling behaviour of losers with guns, who have decided to make their mark on the world by killing someone or some people. It makes no sense, it's not rationale, it's not in their own interest. It seems, the less power and resources they have, the more likely they are to kill.

Some of them are suicidal or nuts, like the numerous high school, etc shooters, and don't mind dying in the process. Some do care about getting caught, and plan the crime to avoid it. I think the thrill is definitely part of it: getting it right, mission accomplished, getting away with it.

I could go into lots of examples, but I'll just cite the first well known one, the Clutter family massacre described in In Cold Blood.

It seems quite possible to me that a couple of young psychopaths got together and did this primarily for the thrill, and ended up picking the Rs just because one or both knew the details of their living situation, and didn't like them

Also, in terms of LE keeping quiet, I think that's increasingly standard operating procedure now. The reason is that people will confess to crimes they haven't committed, and be really persuasive about it, especially if police are feeling anxious to solve the crime.

Then, in some cases, they turn around and sue police for millions for wrongful persecution.

For example, in the Waddell Buddhist Temple massacre of 9 monks, by two stupid teens, a group of 4 young men who confessed, but were then exonerated, were awarded $2.8 million in an out of court settlement. http://www.miranda-vs-arizona.com/220FalseConfessionsTheTucsonFour.htm

So I think police services have learned to keep most of it back, to ensure the case doesn't get bungled by false confessions.

I'm on board with all of those.

This case has reminded me of the "In Cold Blood" case. I read that book. Those folks had never even met the Clutters. The assailants had only met in prison, and were getting out at the same time. It was just a rumor, started in prison, iirc, about a family with a hidden safe of money. Safe, or no safe, when they got there, those two could have just gagged them, and tied them up, and took off to Mexico. The one, though, was meaner than the other one. The less violent one, talked the other one, out of raping the young girl. I don't think he'd have been violent, on his own, but he was all ready jock strap deep in it, and when the first person was murdered, there was definitely no turning back. He had to go along with his more violent partner, or what would happen to him?

No offense to any LEOs out there, but I've had a couple three unpleasant experiences with LEOs, and while I am not super trusting of some of the figures in this investigation, I do agree, I too have been noticing an increase in locking cases down. Iirc, a sleuther from England said, in another thread, that they don't release near the information that the U.S. does.

 

[Dudly]

:laughing: Sorry guys. I get heated, every. single. time. I read that story. Again, sorry Dudly. I have brought it forward too, but oh, how I hate that article.

I took no offense to what you said. I knew whom you were referring to. Everyone thought that way when that article first came to light. I was sure you knew enough to not shoot the messenger...lol

 

[Dudly]

I would still like to see the proof of the actual grow-ops ! Something hasn't been right about this case from the beginning !

Not one picture of a leaf much less a plant or grow operation. They sure had pictures to show of the grow op under the car body shop that had bank vault doors.
Not the three at the Rhoden's places, though...

 

[StrangeOne]

Oh. Thank you. Her family really seemed to put Frankie on a pedestal and no problems mentioned of their co-parenting Brentley. Heck! Maybe it was the Mexican cartel. It's just crazy that LE seems no closer to solving the murders today than they were on April 22nd.

Mexican cartel wouldn't have bothered to leave a 3 year old alive. My 3 year twins can pretty much tell me anything I need to know if asked. The babies maybe but, I work at a hospital where they tried everything they could to get to a man who rolled over on them. We were on lockdown and they sent his girlfriend through the emergency room as a patient to get to get to him. This was after she tried to come in a visit him. It does something to you when hear a man screaming "She will kill me!"
You get a whole new perspective on the wolves right outside your door. Being in a small town will not save you either.

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[StrangeOne]

I have even toyed with the idea that maybe the intense secrecy is because one of the victims lived. IIRC, the only people to actually see a victim, other than LE, is BJM seeing CRsr and GR, James Manley seeing Dana lying on the floor, and Donald Stone seeing KR. Please correct me if I am incorrect.

Did they have open casket funerals?

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[RAISINISBACK]

Did they have open casket funerals?

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I too have toyed with the idea those were empty caskets. With all the secrecy the thought has entered my mind that this is all an elaborate setup by government to put this family in witness protection. Or maybe it is just wishful thinking that they are somewhere alive. Then I realize that the young parents, FR, HHG and HMR would never have left their babies behind. And reality hits again.

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I'm on board with all of those.

This case has reminded me of the "In Cold Blood" case. I read that book. Those folks had never even met the Clutters. The assailants had only met in prison, and were getting out at the same time. It was just a rumor, started in prison, iirc, about a family with a hidden safe of money. Safe, or no safe, when they got there, those two could have just gagged them, and tied them up, and took off to Mexico. The one, though, was meaner than the other one. The less violent one, talked the other one, out of raping the young girl. I don't think he'd have been violent, on his own, but he was all ready jock strap deep in it, and when the first person was murdered, there was definitely no turning back. He had to go along with his more violent partner, or what would happen to him?

No offense to any LEOs out there, but I've had a couple three unpleasant experiences with LEOs, and while I am not super trusting of some of the figures in this investigation, I do agree, I too have been noticing an increase in locking cases down. Iirc, a sleuther from England said, in another thread, that they don't release near the information that the U.S. does.

BBM

Because I have been stuck on what the young smoker said for a few days and think it is important in some way, what about a theory that instead of a rumor about cash in a safe, it was a rumor about a large stash of pills that CR1 was selling? If it was a rumor going round that the R's were selling pills, it would explain what the guy said and explain why LE did not mention the R's selling pills.

What does everyone think?

JMO

 

[RAISINISBACK]

I think Reader has known from day one who killed the R's. From the moment he stood in that church the day of the murders and said that someone in that church knew who killed these people and why. I think that is why he has not asked for the public's help in finding out who killed them. He didn't need it, he already knew. The only help he has asked for is to try to connect the W's with a gun or ammo. Then you have JM's arrest.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

I think Reader has known from day one who killed the R's. From the moment he stood in that church the day of the murders and said that someone in that church knew who killed these people and why. I think that is why he has not asked for the public's help in finding out who killed them. He didn't need it, he already knew. The only help he has asked for is to try to connect the W's with a gun or ammo. Then you have JM's arrest.

JMO

Do you think that Reader thinks the W's did it all by themselves? Just curious.

 

[Betty P]

Not one picture of a leaf much less a plant or grow operation. They sure had pictures to show of the grow op under the car body shop that had bank vault doors.
Not the three at the Rhoden's places, though...

It's odd. Very odd. How much have other friends, family, etc. validated the story of an MJ grow op?

It would be helpful if someone local stepped forward and said "yes, we saw the evidence or somehow knew the Rhoden men had a grow op." It's almost as if they're afraid to say, one way or another. Is LE intimidating these people to keep them quiet?

That's an entire topic unto its own in this case - very little discussion of the family and their murders. There have been some interviews of a few close family and friends (DS, BJM, LM, KR's daughter, TR, JW, etc.) Unfortunately, anyone who has talked in the news media has been accused of being complicit in the murders by rumor mongerers. Surely there are people out there who could speak up to validate or deny the MJ claims. Given past treatment by others who have spoken out, its easy to understand why some haven't.

I've gone back and forth on this, but I think there may have been some grow ops there, but an operation not quite as large as LE claimed. Ask me again next week, and I'll probably change my mind. :thinking:

 

[Betty P]

I think Reader has known from day one who killed the R's. From the moment he stood in that church the day of the murders and said that someone in that church knew who killed these people and why. I think that is why he has not asked for the public's help in finding out who killed them. He didn't need it, he already knew. The only help he has asked for is to try to connect the W's with a gun or ammo. Then you have JM's arrest.

JMO

I still don't see JM as participating in the massacre of his own sister, nieces and nephews. I do see him as possibly someone who was set up to take the blame, though. The W family seem the most likely suspects to have been involved, whether directly or indirectly.

I think LM has a pretty good idea, too, of who was behind it. I still keep going back to his remarks that LE was going to cover it up, just as they've covered up everything for years. Slightly OT, the reason we don't hear from LM anymore is that he and other family members are under a gag order - evidence that there is a grand jury, run by Rob Junk, working on this case. I wonder if there's a federal grand jury working on it, too?

 

[rsd1200]

Did they have open casket funerals?

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From what I understand they were.

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[MizStery]

As near as we can tell, the W's weren't involved in cockfighting or demo derby activities, so the connection has to be in MJ, hard drug trafficking, money laundering or some combination of those.

<snip>

JMO, I'm still thinking of JW as the most likely low level informant. Others here may think it's someone else. But the big question is - who did these people know? Someone higher than JW or someone similar were the ones who wanted the Rhodens killed.

What activities was the informant involved in that brought them in contact with dangerous people willing to massacre an entire family?

What did the target of the killings do?


What activity did they threaten or engage in that set off a murder spree that was extremely risky for the people who wanted them dead? It had to be something major, like snitching to someone in LE or engaging in a major theft from the "big bosses".

Refusing to get involved in selling hard drugs, or backing out of that activity would have been dangerous. But was it enough to force the higher ups to kill 8 people? Maybe, maybe not. I'm going with snitching to LE, most likely to the Feds. If it was theft of money or drugs, would that be enough to kill all 8?


Whose DNA have they not yet retrieved or compared with that found at the crime scene?


Back to the DNA. They've tested a lot of people close to the family and many involved in the local drug biz. If the actual killers DNA was likely not already in the homes (otherwise they wouldn't have needed someone close to the family to help with surveillance and planning), shouldn't we be ruling out a lot of local people?
<snip>

.

Sherriff Reader and Leonard Manley have reiterated their belief it was locals who committed the genecide of the Rhoden's.

Please correct me but in recent memory the only people who are pushing hard the Mexican Cartel is the Wagners.

But the family's lawyer slammed the investigation for wasting time.
John Kearson Clark told DailyMail.com: 'Authorities have had leads. They have dropped the ball and not acted quick enough… time is of the essence in these type of cases.
<snip>
He said he believed the real answers to the murders lay with drug lords who police had failed to locate.
'I find it Interesting that the public said over a year ago, that the "Mexican cartel" was responsible for the execution-style murders of the Rhoden family.
'Maybe the public was correct a year ago, and the clueless authorities bungled, fumbled and missed out on solving these atrocious murders.'
He said the Wagners had supplied police with invaluable information to help the investigation.
'Why have the authorities not follow up on the leads that the Wagners wanted to give? Is it because the authorities carelessly waited 4-5 months to get back to Billy Wagner?
'Only now doing so, unexpectedly in a public place, and hence, putting the Wagners lives in danger? Malfeasance and incompetence at its finest.'​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html#ixzz59jYSwYbq


Almost as a rebuttal numerous times Sheriff Reader has repeated his mantra that the perps were locals.

Police have not gone on record to state the Wagners are suspects but their public information appeal led to them being labeled as persons of 'special focus.'A Piketon police spokesperson said officers were 'interested in receiving information regarding any interactions, conversations, dealings, or transactions that the public may have had with these individuals (Wagners), which could be personal, business, or otherwise. Specifically information… regarding vehicles, firearms, and ammunition.'​

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...focus-multiple-murder-hunt.html#ixzz59jXhZ8ue


I think it was a cumulative festering hatred of the Rhoden family.
i.e. [FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Hey I'm drilling down on this!The only survivors are kids under the age of 3.[/FONT][FONT=.SF UI Text]
[/FONT]
[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Timeline motive & opportunity. Who possibly (inconsistencies)would have legitimate reason to be at CS. (covers why there could any DNA of theirs). LE says crime personal and locals are not talking. Perps took out the adults and anyone who could assume custody of (fill in blank). Who's been trying to get custody from a Rhoden's.

Finally I will never forget what Leonard Manley said about the early morning text between JM and JW.

[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]Leonard Manley believes the text message is the impetus behind investigators’ interest in his son. He said he did not know what the text message said.[/FONT][/FONT]​

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]https://www.mydaytondailynews.com/n...tearing-the-scabs-off/DRBSBqKvEMPKFkRjaf4njK/[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=.SF UI Text][FONT=.SFUIText-Semibold]
Please feel free to poke holes. oke:

:cow:
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Dudly]

I think Reader has known from day one who killed the R's. From the moment he stood in that church the day of the murders and said that someone in that church knew who killed these people and why. I think that is why he has not asked for the public's help in finding out who killed them. He didn't need it, he already knew. The only help he has asked for is to try to connect the W's with a gun or ammo. Then you have JM's arrest.

JMO

I have wondered if there was messages left in the homes since they had to kept from public eyes. Maybe the killers identified themselves as part of the warning as to what can happen...