OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #35 *Arrests*

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rsd1200 said:
BBM
This is another thing about the Ws throughout this that has bothered me, it seemed they were so confident, and sure that things must go their way, that they could get an order to see another man's child. I could see, if he had no part in it, wanting the sisters to grow up, having play dates, and seeing one another but to say it like that? A child that may be no blood kin to him? I WILL WANT MANDATORY VISITATION? It still, alone, didn't make them murderers but it showed they felt entitled to getting what they wanted. Despicable.
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Yes it clearly shows how controlling he was or wanted to be. Its like he thinks it is just up to him and he can have whatever he wants even if the baby isn't his. Crazy thinking!
 
The bug detectors were most likely used over the months of planning to find all of the trail and surveillance cameras that the Rhodens had around their properties. They must have known there were cameras, just not how many of where they were located.

RD-30 BUG DETECTOR
The RD-30 counter surveillance tool will detect wired and wireless audio and video devices with frequencies between 20MHz - 60GHz as well as GPS units on vehices.
 
"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Yeah, this is a creepy thing to say, as though he believes he has a right to any and all children that HR might give birth to regardless of the parentage. I think of the family breeding dogs and pigs and horses, and it makes me think that they see their sons' girlfriends in the same light, as breeding machines for the Wagner family.
 
kaykay543 said:
People on drugs/selling drugs (especially meth) are paranoid all the time. they may have bought them to see if the Rhodens were being bugged or they may have bought them to make sure their own place wasn't bugged. Or it could be both. I think some are underestimating the "undercurrent of drugs"

I was just re reading a couple articles that JW was interviewed in. Just makes me sick!

Jake Wagner, 23, said there's a 50/50 chance he's Kylie's father. He and Hanna Rhoden dated for nearly three years before they welcomed her half-sister, Sophia, now 2 1/2 years old. If Wagner is her father, that would mean her half-sister would become her full sister.

And there is nothing Wagner would like more, he said, fondly recalling how he pulled the tiny sock off her itty, bitty foot shortly after she was born on April 17. He was checking for a hammer index toe: A Wagner family trait.

He's almost sure, he said, that he saw that bend. It's the hope he holds onto these days.

But if he isn't Kylie's dad, and if the courts deem another man suitable to care for her, he will step aside -- at least partially.

"I'm not going to take her," Wagner said. "But I will want mandatory visitation in order to see her regularly."

Get Access

Rhoden case: 'Hate seeing my daughter cry'
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I was thinking....... suppose JW was infuriated that the newborn was, in fact, not his child?
Does anyone know how long JW and HR were in a relationship? I would love to know the reason as to why they broke up- it must have been bad.
I personally think that the motive for the murders runs deeper than just a "custody battle." By the horrific way they were killed (overkill), it exhibits much hatred towards the Rhoden's. I am sure that custody may have been part of the motive, but I am certain that there are other factors. Only time will tell.
I was just speculating that maybe the newborn not being JW's child, may have fueled more rage?
 
cds0902 said:
Good question, I think personally they didn't want to kill just Hanna, because that would be very obvious, by killing 8 family members it would throw LE off of a motive.
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I think that the Rhoden's and Wagner's had a lengthy history- stemming back further than the time that SW was born. I had read in an article that both families were in 'business' together and that the Wagner's owed the Rhoden's a significant amount of money. I assume that there are several reasons as to why the Rhoden's were violently killed- I can't accept the fact that it is just custody of SW. I am hoping that we will hear more details soon.
 
I hope @gitana1 pops by, too! Eager to learn more about her thoughts on the topic!

Betty P said:
On Tricia's Websleuth radio podcast last night, Gitana1 was discussing the psycho-pathology of "enmeshed families". She discussed it in relation to Chris Watt's family trying to intervene and stop him from accepting the plea bargain to avoid the DP, claiming he was innocent of killing his daughters. Later, when discussing the Rhoden case, she said it sounded like the Wagner family was another case of an "enmeshed family".

Following are some links about enmeshed family systems and how their dysfunction comes from parents and even grandparents seeking to control children's lives to an abnormal degree. They don't see a separation or have boundaries between themselves and their children. The Wagners seem to be a very extreme example of this dysfunctional family and understanding those dynamics helps outsiders understand how they ended up plotting and carrying out these horrible murders and why they were so driven to take custody of Sophia.

I hope Gitana1 drops in here and discusses this with us.

Enmeshment



Can a Family Be Too Close?
Click to expand...
 
rsd1200 said:
BBM
This is another thing about the Ws throughout this that has bothered me, it seemed they were so confident, and sure that things must go their way, that they could get an order to see another man's child. I could see, if he had no part in it, wanting the sisters to grow up, having play dates, and seeing one another but to say it like that? A child that may be no blood kin to him? I WILL WANT MANDATORY VISITATION? It still, alone, didn't make them murderers but it showed they felt entitled to getting what they wanted. Despicable.
Click to expand...

Yes, the sense of entitlement was out front with the W's. They were used to getting their way. Someone asked upthread about any history of violence or criminal activity in the family. IIRC there isn't much on record for them. I have a feeling if they got into trouble or mixed it up with others, it was written off and kept quiet. The family, through the grandparents, had "pull" in the area, JMO. People were probably afraid to cross them.

ETA: Reminder to all - Fredericka Wagner and Rita Newcomb (Angela Wagner's mother) will appear in Pike County Common Pleas Court today, so keep an eye out for live coverage on local news stations. One news report said they were scheduled for this afternoon.
 
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KentuckyMama said:
The bug detectors were most likely used over the months of planning to find all of the trail and surveillance cameras that the Rhodens had around their properties. They must have known there were cameras, just not how many of where they were located.

RD-30 BUG DETECTOR
The RD-30 counter surveillance tool will detect wired and wireless audio and video devices with frequencies between 20MHz - 60GHz as well as GPS units on vehices.
Click to expand...

Ahh, I was showing my age and thinking of more old fashioned bug detectors!
 
cds0902 said:
Good question, I think personally they didn't want to kill just Hanna, because that would be very obvious, by killing 8 family members it would throw LE off of a motive.
Click to expand...

I haven't followed this as closely as most of you have but did pop in occasionally during the last two years. After hearing about the arrests, killing all of them made sense. They couldn't kill just Hanna because with the custody dispute going on, LE would have had an immediate POI. Clearly killing all of them worked in their favor to some extent because it took 2+ years for the arrests to happen....unfortunately.
 
Betty P said:
See my links above about enmeshed families. Wagners are an extreme example of a family unit that spent all it's spare time together, thinks together, has no boundaries between each other. If the parents want something done, then the whole family goes along. What was good for one was good for all and vice versa. JW had a job driving a truck, but it doesn't seem the parents worked outside the home. They all lived together, parents with kids and grandkids.
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What a messed up family! I think it was brilliant on DeWine’s part to split this family up and have them placed in different county jails. They have all lost their emotional support and will be crushed without each other to lean on.

Those young men are going to be flailing around without their mommy and daddy telling them what to do. Mommy and daddy won’t be able to protect them/fix things when they don’t get their way. I bet one of them will quickly crack and take a deal.

I also think prison will be very tough for AW. She will be treated very harshly by prisoners when they learn she is accused of killing two young mothers, one of which she claimed she was so close to. That’s pure evil.
 
RAISINISBACK said:
I wasn't shocked because I knew in my heart long ago that the W's did this and why they did it. But I was stunned at the amount of time they put in stalking the R's to learn their habits.

If indeed they killed KR because he went to CR1's home to shower before leaving for work every morning then that means the W's had to be watching CR1's 24/7.

In other words if KR arrived at 5:00 AM every morning then the W's had to be sitting out side the property to know that. In the wintertime to boot since the R's were killed in April. That took some dedication to their goal. Just imagine one or more of them sitting in a car watching those houses all night long waiting for lights to go out and for KR to arrive. Maybe taking notes. DR's place too. DS's erratic movements must have given them fits given his "I was supposed to stay the night with KR". And he was right, had he stayed he would have been victim #9. DR working that double was a huge problem for them. It makes me think that JW ran over there to pick SW up at 10:30 PM just to get the scoop from HR as to why DR wasn't home yet.

One thing I never thought about in all this time is if KR arrived every morning at 5:00 AM to shower, maybe CR1 left the door unlocked for him so he wouldn't have to get up and open it that early.

Also the W's buying a "Bug detector" bothers me. They would not have used it to try to detect "bugs" in CR1's or the other homes. That would have been something they bought to try to detect "bugs" in their own homes or vehicles. Did they think the R's had planted a "Bug" or listening device in their home or vehicles? Were they really that paranoid? What were they afraid of? Just something to think about while we wait for answers.

I really hope their trials are televised but I am not sure what channel i could get them on. I will have to rely on those of you in Ohio to give me the info on it.

JMO
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I could be wrong, but I think KR would have arrived even earlier than 5am to shower, he had to be at work quite early and it was a long drive to work. Also, the bug detector could be to know if the cops had planted bugs on them so they would know if the cops were on to them. I think the surveillance of the family began when the relationship started with HR and JW, certainly when SW was on the way or shortly after she was born. Total control. Sick family and great grandma W is the head of the whole sick thing. All of this IMO of course. Have always felt so bad for HR when I realized the control JW had over her. I think she learned some horrible things about this family and that's why the W's couldn't go to the courts to get custody. And really they didn't need the courts when they had such power and control. I've often thought of HR's sadness and what all her and her mother went thru with the W's early that year before they were killed. So wish they would have had help from someone. So glad for arrests. I've never been in favor of the dp in any case my entire life, I hope they all fry, and I hate that I'm enjoying Great Grandma W in jail. There's some rough characters she's in there with. I hate that I'm enjoying her misery.
 
PlainJane1 said:
So that explains why HG was brutally shot five times. I’m sure JW blamed her for introducing her brother to HR.
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I also had that thought. They probably wanted to take out CG too, but couldn't because then it would be obvious who had done it. Poor HHG took the shots they couldn't give her brother. Sorry for the gruesomeness, but so it goes with this horrific case.
 
My heartfelt prayers and healing energy to the Manleys, Rhodens and Gilleys. And most especially all these precious children. I can't imagine having to endure all of this their entire lives. They will need intense counseling the rest of their lives.
 
Watch live: Grandmothers tied to eight killings appear in court today
Wow, just wow.....her attorney said, "She's a tough old bird." (never expected that to come out of her attorneys mouth.) But, she doesn't have any speeding tickets and taught Sunday school..... shaking my head
FW bond $100K (eta daughter looks like younger version of mom, uncannily)
RN bond $50K
 
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