GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #2

[thefragile7393]

I can see how under the influence of alcohol and peer pressure and immature teenage brain can cause someone to go along with something they may not normally do. While Ma'lik MAY be truly sorry......we will see how he does with his punishment, whatever it may be. If he has to be labelled as a SO for the rest of his life then so be it. Being truly sorry and remorseful (IF IF IF he is) is a start...but you still have to pay the price. It is hard to say....his attitude towards the whole thing does make me wonder.

No words for Mays.....his actions clearly show its all a joke to him.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

 

[BD1]

JeannaT, the charges are not done. The grand jury will convene soon, and I'd lay money more charges are forthcoming. There was visual and testimonial evidence convicting Mal'ik and Trent, who both became dangerous the minute they decided that vulnerability and disability meant they didn't need consent. This case is nothing like your son's situation as you told it, said with respect.

 

[TheDuchess]

*snipped for relevance to response*

On the Anonymous website, one of the complaints against the investigation was that there was no lab work done to determine if she'd been drugged. Two days after the incident when it became apparent to her parents that they needed to do the rape exam, and they took her to the hospital, they believed the drug screen had been done. They found out later that it hadn't been done and the reason given them was that it was too late, which is actually not true.

According to their bloggers, the test was never done.

It remains unclear whether it was a purposeful oversight to ignore a drug issue, or whether the tech honestly thought it was too late.

In listening to the testimony, it seems unlikely that she was drugged. In rohypnol cases I've read about the girl becomes physically dizzy and terribly sick, and then passes out cold and doesn't recover until late the next day. The testimony of this night is that she kept drinking more and more and so was awake and functioning (even using her cell phone) during these episodes. And then she'd drink more and pass out, against the advice of her friends. It seems unlikely from that, that it was anything except drinking too much.

One of the things that's so frustrating - to me - in this case - is the unfairness of who got charged and who was actually the most guilty. I don't think for a minute that Mal'ik is a dangerous young man, and I think he was far less culpable than many of the others. He also doesn't "ice" me like the boy who laughs and apparently honestly believes she's dead. It seems to me that he believes she might actually be dead or dying. That ices me.

Maybe you haven't read all of the testimony and tweets. Mal'ik isn't a dangerous young man? He has been found guilty of rape. He told the world on TV that he felt a drunken passed-out puking girl was coming onto him!!! Really Mal'ik?? Yeah-that's HOT!!!

Once again-rape is about power and control. These boys could have had practically any girl they like. They are athletes, good looking, popular, etc... There was no sexual function related to what they did to her. They simply did it to her because it was "funny."

 

[TheDuchess]

I can see how under the influence of alcohol and peer pressure and immature teenage brain can cause someone to go along with something they may not normally do. While Ma'lik MAY be truly sorry......we will see how he does with his punishment, whatever it may be. If he has to be labelled as a SO for the rest of his life then so be it. Being truly sorry and remorseful (IF IF IF he is) is a start...but you still have to pay the price. It is hard to say....his attitude towards the whole thing does make me wonder.

No words for Mays.....his actions clearly show its all a joke to him.

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk 2

Mal'ik isn't remourseful. He got on national television to defend himself, plead not guilty and allowed this girl to be dragged through the mud. If he was truly remoursful, he would have quiety copped a plea, testified against Mays and any others and he would have likely gotten much less punishment as a juvenile.

I'm open to forgiveness to those who are truly sorry, but his tears in the courtroom were for himself, in my opinion. We will have to see what this young man does with the rest of his life. Will he learn a lesson? I truly do hope so and I hope that he can take this lesson and perhaps teach others that rape is NEVER an option.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'm just hoping they don't get a light sentence, and that they're not able to play competitive sports again, at least not in college.

 

[believe09]

One of the things that's so frustrating - to me - in this case - is the unfairness of who got charged and who was actually the most guilty. I don't think for a minute that Mal'ik is a dangerous young man, and I think he was far less culpable than many of the others. He also doesn't "ice" me like the boy who laughs and apparently honestly believes she's dead. It seems to me that he believes she might actually be dead or dying. That ices me.

Fair enough. What ices me is that she was too drunk to consent to anything from anyone and that is really the whole story in a nutshell. She most absolutely definitely positively couldnt consent to being filmed while being raped. Malik wasnt collateral damage-he participated in the crime.

Additionally I am irked because the defense for the boys is that this is a snapshot in time, and outside of this offense they are good kids who never got into trouble. But for our victim, she doesnt get that kind of latitude. And I think the judge was part of that message-CNN surely was with their shockingly unevolved coverage of the verdict yesterday.

It is an excuse for them that they were drunk-it is her fault that she was so what could she expect.


I want to howl at the moon-WTH? Even if you think she is a *advertiser censored* who should be shamed for being sexually promiscuous, the law is on her side. Now there are at least 16 people who will be next in the cross hairs of a specially convened Grand Jury. Did Coach cooperate with the investigation?

 

[believe09]

Maybe Malik is a follower-maybe Malik can be led by the likes of someone like Trent Mays. Maybe that should have been his defense.

Because raping a peer in front of a crowd of folks shows some kind of something, but at a BARE minimum, it shows a lack of a moral compass.

That's what makes the whole group of them, adults to children, dangerous as far as I am concerned. The most dangerous wolf is the one who looks like a sheep.

 

[Salem]

I'm curious. Why did you feel bad for them?

ETA: The rest of your post gives all the reasons not to feel bad for them.

So I guess it is obvious I'm conflicted a little bit. It is hard to express. I think what they did is horrendeous, vile, evil. I feel bad, maybe not "for them" so to speak, but for their wasted lives. For their lack of values and their stupidity and meanness.

I feel bad that their peers encouraged them to act in such a manner by not calling them on it and by laughing and egging them on (doesn't excuse them - they took the first steps). I feel bad that, from appearances, it seems like they were bright young men that could have done something useful in their lives and instead they chose to demean and humiliate and force themselves upon another person. I think it is sad that these two young men chose a path of contempt for humanity and control over a path of compassion and decency.

Salem

 

[PrettyWoman86]

I didn't watch the live stream of the trial. Does anyone know if there is a recorded version somewhere.

 

[PrettyWoman86]

So I guess it is obvious I'm conflicted a little bit. It is hard to express. I think what they did is horrendeous, vile, evil. I feel bad, maybe not "for them" so to speak, but for their wasted lives. For their lack of values and their stupidity and meanness.

I feel bad that their peers encouraged them to act in such a manner by not calling them on it and by laughing and egging them on (doesn't excuse them - they took the first steps). I feel bad that, from appearances, it seems like they were bright young men that could have done something useful in their lives and instead they chose to demean and humiliate and force themselves upon another person. I think it is sad that these two young men chose a path of contempt for humanity and control over a path of compassion and decency.

Salem

I feel conflicted as well. What they did was horrible and it deserves punishment. I'm glad they were punished but I do not feel justice was served. I hope JD's parents get her some counseling to heal her demons. The fact that all of these kids were so young is the saddest part of it.

 

[FlyerFan28]

I didn't watch the live stream of the trial. Does anyone know if there is a recorded version somewhere.

Most of it wasn't filmed as the witnesses asked to not be on camera.

 

[TheDuchess]

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2...rs-say-16-more-minors-face-charges-rape-case/

Not sure if I can post this or not...is Radar Online OK? I'm sure there are MSM posts as well.

I am so happy that they are really pursuing the others. Because what has everyone riled up about this case other than the obvious of the rape of the young girl-but the aftermath, the fact no one chose to help her, the fact they all laughed at her, the fact that officials tried to cover it us, the fact that there are still defenders to this day and those that will continue to threaten the girl and blame her. Even some of her so-called "friends."

To her former friends I say this to you: JD brought the alcohol and you jumped right in and shared. Perhaps JD is a drunk. Perhaps she can't handle her liquor as well as you can. But how dare you turn your backs on her when she really needed you most??? You think you sit in your ivory towers so perfect and without sin? You were drinking that night too and you should have done more to protect your friend. Get an adult to step in and get involved. Heck-the assistant coach who threw the party across the street could have taken her home (should have.)

JD wasn't the only one who made foolish decisions that night. She was just the only one who was punished for her decisions by your friends and classmates. I sure hope that some day a bad decision you make in your life doesn't cost you what JD's has cost her. I cannot imagine any friend of mine turning their backs on me.

When I was date raped by a guy in our community, there were a couple of his friends who believed him (and his girlfriend!!!) but 99% of the people that I knew believed me. He would go to bars in town and be thrown out. At one bar he was chased out by everyone into his van and the entire bar was outside rocking his van and kicking it, throwing rocks at it and hitting it with baseball bats. It was quite the scene. My brother worked at a large company in town and the word got out to everyone pretty quickly that this guy wouldn't be able to go anywhere without being harrassed.

Vigilante justice? Maybe. I don't think he was ever physically harmed in any way, but my friends, neighbors and my town got behind me and told the rapist that you don't rape a girl in our town and get away with it, regardless of whether you were ever prosecuted. (They wouldn't prosecute because is was considered a "date rape" at the time.)

That said-I put myself in the dangerous position of getting drunk with the wrong guy and being alone with him. But I didn't want sex with him. I just wanted to make out a little bit and have some fun. I hardly even knew him, but trusted him because he was a "friend-of-a-friend." But that doesn't condone or excuse anything he did to me.

This town should have done the same for this girl. Instead of standing up for the victim, they stood up for the football heroes. Every single person involved in this fiasco is to blame and all should face punishment.

I can't remember the exact line, but think it was her ex-boyfriend who texted her something like "I felt really bad for you as you were laying on the floor naked, but I just couldn't do anything about it."

 

[LisaB]

She was too drunk to have consensual sex. Even a prostitute has the right to say no. Previous history or prior acts don't justify this happening. :twocents:

I know I am just pushing people's buttons here, but... most wedding receptions include alcohol, and many a bride (and groom) celebrates to excess. One would assume that, LONG before the date of the actual wedding, she "implied consent" to have sexual relations with her groom on that occasion, and in fact, fully intended to do so even if she consumes enough alcohol to be unable to "legally consent". Would the newlyweds be expected to abstain from sexual relations on their wedding night if one of them had too much to drink?

Also... each state specifies a BAC that is considered "intoxicated" for legal purposes (i.e. operating a motor vehicle), however the "limit" varies from one state to the next. Which state is "right"? What is "impaired"? Is it determined by behavior, or blood alcohol content? Is there a specific BAC that is universally considered to be "too high to consent to sex"? Similarly, each state has a minimum "age of consent". Again, the age varies from state to state. Why is a 16 year old in one state too young to consent while a 14 year old in another is not?

The world gets smaller every day. Interstate travel is quite common, and it seems a NATIONAL limit should be enacted concerning both age of consent and the definition of intoxication as indicated by BAC. I realize neither of these issues is directly relevant to this case, but it made me wonder how these arbitrary standards that AREN'T actually "standard" at all have evolved.

Finally, in the case of these two boys... upon turning 21 and being released from detention, they could legally change their names, provided they register under the new names as (child) sex offenders. Assuming most people do not recognize them (or won't in 5 years), if they relocate with new identities, they could PROBABLY pass the entire incident off as if it was a "statutory rape" case, by stating (truthfully) that they were 16 and the "victim" was also 16, without revealing that they are the "Steubenville Rapists."

 

[PrettyWoman86]

Do they have to register as sex offenders for the rest of their lives or until they turn 21?

 

[LisaB]

I agree, they thought it would all be over that day. when they heard 'guilty!' the tears were all for themselves. If you are sorry, and want to say it, say it BEFORE you are found guilty. I made a big mistake, I made a fool of myself, I was also intoxicated, whatever. But don't talk about the girl like she is the one at fault, then cry like a baby when you go down for it. I felt no sympathy. And I agree with the other poster, I'd pack my family and daughter up, and move to another state.
It's hard for me to believe teens these days act and talk like this. Do the parents do any parenting? Who, boy or girl, could stand by, and watch or take picrures and not do any thing to help this girl? I hope alot of parents are using this to teach there children how the world works in real life.

She already LIVES in "another state". She is from WV, not OH.

 

[PrettyWoman86]

I wonder if there are any trial transcripts.

 

[Jacobite]

The girl is an honor student and I think that says something about her. I doubt she is a wild party girl. I suspect instead she was a fan of some players who took advantage of and abused her for her admiration of them. They and their friends did a smear campaign on the girl to justify their own sleazy behavior. I suspect the Feds and the State will now do a mop up on Steubenville. The town will be made an example. However this is not just one morally bankrupt town. The mentality did not originate in Ohio. Disrespect for women in America is at an all time high. Kind of reflects the trash sold to kids by the mass media.

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I know I am just pushing people's buttons here, but... most wedding receptions include alcohol, and many a bride (and groom) celebrates to excess. One would assume that, LONG before the date of the actual wedding, she "implied consent" to have sexual relations with her groom on that occasion, and in fact, fully intended to do so even if she consumes enough alcohol to be unable to "legally consent". Would the newlyweds be expected to abstain from sexual relations on their wedding night if one of them had too much to drink?

Also... each state specifies a BAC that is considered "intoxicated" for legal purposes (i.e. operating a motor vehicle), however the "limit" varies from one state to the next. Which state is "right"? What is "impaired"? Is it determined by behavior, or blood alcohol content? Is there a specific BAC that is universally considered to be "too high to consent to sex"? Similarly, each state has a minimum "age of consent". Again, the age varies from state to state. Why is a 16 year old in one state too young to consent while a 14 year old in another is not?

The world gets smaller every day. Interstate travel is quite common, and it seems a NATIONAL limit should be enacted concerning both age of consent and the definition of intoxication as indicated by BAC. I realize neither of these issues is directly relevant to this case, but it made me wonder how these arbitrary standards that AREN'T actually "standard" at all have evolved.

Finally, in the case of these two boys... upon turning 21 and being released from detention, they could legally change their names, provided they register under the new names as (child) sex offenders. Assuming most people do not recognize them (or won't in 5 years), if they relocate with new identities, they could PROBABLY pass the entire incident off as if it was a "statutory rape" case, by stating (truthfully) that they were 16 and the "victim" was also 16, without revealing that they are the "Steubenville Rapists."

Let's hope they aren't able to escape the moniker. I fear for their future victims if they are able to mask their past.

 

[erik28]

Finally, in the case of these two boys... upon turning 21 and being released from detention, they could legally change their names, provided they register under the new names as (child) sex offenders. Assuming most people do not recognize them (or won't in 5 years), if they relocate with new identities, they could PROBABLY pass the entire incident off as if it was a "statutory rape" case, by stating (truthfully) that they were 16 and the "victim" was also 16, without revealing that they are the "Steubenville Rapists."

This is exactly true and happens in many cases with convicted rapists. A close relative of mine was raped repeatedly as a child & teen by another teen/young adult over a period of years. He plead guilty to two felony rape counts and got sex offender treatment as a first time offender.

He didn't even have to move or change his name. He stayed in the same house with the same friends and claimed it was all a case of "statutory rape" with an aggressive teen that happened once. No one cared to look into it.

It is 20 years later and he is in prison for raping a seven year old at the age of 41, in the same house as his previous rapes. Even the same room and the same pretenses. For all the stories of convicted rapists who have had their lives "ruined" by having to remain on sex offender registries, I imagine their are at least as many (if not greatly more) who have gone about business as usual with impunity. Our society does not currently understand the complexities of sex offenses, especially by serial offenders.

Ann Salter has covered the psychology/criminology research on this based on offender interviews and self-reports. It is astounding: Predators: Pedophiles, Rapists, And Other Sex Offenders: Anna Salter: 9780465071739: Amazon.com: Books

 

[believe09]

I know I am just pushing people's buttons here, but... most wedding receptions include alcohol, and many a bride (and groom) celebrates to excess. One would assume that, LONG before the date of the actual wedding, she "implied consent" to have sexual relations with her groom on that occasion, and in fact, fully intended to do so even if she consumes enough alcohol to be unable to "legally consent". Would the newlyweds be expected to abstain from sexual relations on their wedding night if one of them had too much to drink?

Also... each state specifies a BAC that is considered "intoxicated" for legal purposes (i.e. operating a motor vehicle), however the "limit" varies from one state to the next. Which state is "right"? What is "impaired"? Is it determined by behavior, or blood alcohol content? Is there a specific BAC that is universally considered to be "too high to consent to sex"? Similarly, each state has a minimum "age of consent". Again, the age varies from state to state. Why is a 16 year old in one state too young to consent while a 14 year old in another is not?

The world gets smaller every day. Interstate travel is quite common, and it seems a NATIONAL limit should be enacted concerning both age of consent and the definition of intoxication as indicated by BAC. I realize neither of these issues is directly relevant to this case, but it made me wonder how these arbitrary standards that AREN'T actually "standard" at all have evolved.

Finally, in the case of these two boys... upon turning 21 and being released from detention, they could legally change their names, provided they register under the new names as (child) sex offenders. Assuming most people do not recognize them (or won't in 5 years), if they relocate with new identities, they could PROBABLY pass the entire incident off as if it was a "statutory rape" case, by stating (truthfully) that they were 16 and the "victim" was also 16, without revealing that they are the "Steubenville Rapists."

:waitasec: On purpose? I am confused.