GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #2

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erik28 said:
I would really appreciate a forensic interviewer's analysis of this video. I haven't watched the whole thing, and couldn't hear much of what the reporter was saying because the audio is low.

This quote from M.H. really jumped out at me, in response to a question about how he was impacted by the video featuring M.N. and the photograph of M.R. and T.M. carrying a seemingly unconscious Jane Doe, both events which occurred in M.H.'s own basement while he was home:

"It made me sick. I, I couldn't believe it. I, I, I'm still angry... about that. I feel, um, I feel like my privacy was intruded upon by those boys, you know, as far as posting the picture and posting the video... It's a pretty famous basement now, and I don't like that at all. I didn't ask for this. My kid didn't ask for this." (time stamp 31:20 remaining, emphasis mine)

M.H. also claims to have not seen the M.N. video until December, 4 months after the crimes against Jane Doe, even though it was taken in his basement, had been in the possession of law enforcement, and clearly implicated his house on some level as potential evidence of the assaults against Jane Doe.

M.H.'s comments and demeanor in this video remind me (to a lesser extent) of Josh Powell's media interviews, especially while he was still in Utah [see Missing Person Susan Powell on this forum if you are not familiar]. Much doesn't add up between my sense of what is conscionable when looking at that photo and video cold and how M.H. discusses it. At this segment in the video, not one word about Jane Doe. M.H. didn't look at that photo and think, "Is that girl even alive?" He thought, "my privacy was intruded upon." :what: Or at least that's what he says he thought, when he says he saw the photo 4 months after the crime.
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<modsnip> Say what you want about the dad in the video...but to compare him in ANY way to Josh Powell, who MURDERED his own babies and very likely their mother??? Let's not get carried away here.

I am just as angered by the whole situation that evening-but it is quite apparent that this family is NOT culpable in the situation. We have to equate what happened that evening in that particular house with REALITY. There was no assault in the home. There was no drinking in the home. The boy says he really didn't see anything other than to try to help out and clean up the mess from the victim. This happens every day in America. Teens do have to walk a reasonable line between being a total narc on their friends and having responsibility.

Are you suggesting that a 17 or 18 year old kid should immediately get a parent involved when a 16 year old girl is drunk? He sent them on their way with a designated driver with the impression that they were going to take her home. How could he have any idea that they would rape her? It doesn't sound to me that he felt that way, nor have any of LE investigating the case.

<modsnip>.

How about the assistant coach who hosted party #1 and got the party started??? How about we look a little further into a 3rd assaulter??? How about we look a little further into all of those people who REFUSED to testify??? And then we look at the mandated reporters involved in the situation, starting with Coach Reno, the assistant coach, etc...who knew that an assault had possibly taken place and did NOTHING other than to tell the boys they would "take care of it."

Honestly, I think this family is at the bottom of my list. I think the boy has suffered enough with threats. He seems like an overall good kid who thought he was doing the right thing with the situation that was presented to him at the time. Was it the PERFECT solution? NO. But did he intentionall do any harm or have a reasonable expectation that the girl would be raped? I honestly believe him and his father when they say they had no idea their so-called friends would have done ANYTHING like this.
 
Are you suggesting that a 17 or 18 year old kid should immediately get a parent involved when a 16 year old girl is drunk? He sent them on their way with a designated driver with the impression that they were going to take her home. How could he have any idea that they would rape her? It doesn't sound to me that he felt that way, nor have any of LE investigating the case.
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Yes. Especially when that girl was carried by her ankles and wrists, unconscious, into the basement. He absolutely should have notified an adult. JMVHO.

These parents havent been charged to date, and may not be. BUT, dad's words and the actions of his loved ones dont ring all that true to me. Let's face it, the kids were unsupervised, even if there was a parent in the home.

There were drunk/high kids inside of that home with a gun on the floor, for example. I would still like to know whose gun it was. I mean, if someone brought the weapon with them clearly the kids were completely unsupervised. If it belongs inside of the home, clearly (imo) the teens were unsupervised.

Dad denies the kids were unsupervised. His words, not mine.
 
TheDuchess said:
<modsnip> Say what you want about the dad in the video...but to compare him in ANY way to Josh Powell, who MURDERED his own babies and very likely their mother??? Let's not get carried away here.
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I was comparing the way the two men interviewed regarding a situation that is/was shocking to the average person, but to them seemed to be more about personal inconveniences. Nowhere do I suggest that M.H. has or would commit a crime against children.
 
I agree the Howarth's should probably be at the bottom of a very long list, but isn't this the one where someone came back to the house later with video, but his girlfriend wouldn't let him watch? If so, at that point, not very long after a rape, he did know what had happened. It takes a lot to assume that they didn't at least say what the video showed or that his girlfriend didn't talk about it to him.

The father was, to me, very unlikable with the smirking and his seeming delight at pointing out the victim's 'fault' in addition to his very obvious intent to sue Godddard. He was also arrogant about their parenting skills vs. everyone else's, yet it was kid's behaviors at his house that were part of testimony - while he and his wife were there not catching what was going on in the basement or out in front of their own house. I know that shouldn't matter, but if he testifies like that to a jury - civil trial - the jury might have a few problems with him. Just IMO.
 
TheDuchess said:
Are you suggesting that a 17 or 18 year old kid should immediately get a parent involved when a 16 year old girl is drunk? He sent them on their way with a designated driver with the impression that they were going to take her home. How could he have any idea that they would rape her? It doesn't sound to me that he felt that way, nor have any of LE investigating the case.
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Snipped by me.

Absolutely. If for nothing else, for common decency. Dad was a kid once, he knows how stupid kids get when they drink. Dad watches the news. He knows of the high rate of vehicular homicide involving alcohol. Dad could have been a gentleman and provided a 16 year old girl with safe haven until her parents showed up. But dad chose to just 'get rid of the problem'. Thanks Dad. Not.
 
Did the mother and father see the girl drunk? Was the father home? I havent kept all these things straight.
 
I don't think any adults witnessed her being carried out. From what I've read, they were aware the uninvited people came to their house and had been drinking and then were asked to leave within about 20 minutes.

I don't know that they even knew this girl, and probably the parents were at that point weary of misbehaving football players and their friends.

I've had enough experiences with kids coming over drunk and other parents NOT wanting to be called (I'm not kidding) that I would be leary about taking over and calling all these kids parents. How responsible are you for kids who rove around in packs, drunk, and descend on your house uninvited? If they believed there was a designated driver, and didn't witness this girl being unconscious, I don't think they're responsible.

One of my three sons had a group of extended friends who did this, and often put kids in VERY uncomfortable positions of having to ask their acquaintances to leave. It was like becoming an every weekend thing, so 5 of us moms made out little red cards for them to put in their wallets with our numbers on them. If they got in a situation like JH was in, they could call us and the moms would come scatter the kids. Scatter the ones who were sober enough to scurry away into the darkness, and deal with the ones too drunk to fend for themselves.

And they did call a couple times. I also found a very unusual earring that had been left on my hot tub ledge while we were on vacation, and after asking around and showing it around I found out whose it was and returned it to her parents. "I think this is your daughters, it was left in my hot tub while my family was vacationing out of state".

Hmm. Don't know what happened with that, but I suspect zero except the mom telling her in the future when you trespass, be sure to take all your stuff.
 
TheDuchess said:
<modsnip> they haven't been charged with a crime and have been 100% cooperative with LE. The boy testified on the stand.<modsnip>. In my opinion, there are a LOT more people accountable for what happened to the victim than this family.
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<modsnip> M.H. voluntarily participated in that interview for the purpose of releasing it to the general public, and so I don't see how reasonable public comment can be likened to crucifixion.

I'm not able to quote the interview at the moment, but near the beginning, M.H. specifically states that one of the reasons he is giving the interview is so that he can say what he wants to say. I hear quite a few problematic approaches and phrases in M.H.'s statements, but nowhere do I say that I think he committed a crime, should be public enemy #1, or anything of the sort. I have already commented about Bellardine and the issue of mandated reporters potentially not fulfilling their legal obligations.

Much of this case has centered around the concept of rape culture and whether those in the community of friends and families associated with those charged and witnessing the crimes against Jane Doe either think the sexual assaults were acceptable or choose to look the other way and not report them for various reasons.

M.H. sounds like he was more concerned about having his basement featured in objectionable content than he was that a substantially incapacitated girl was raped repeatedly that night, while in the company of friends of his child and after leaving his house. He also makes statements about how his son wasn't involved in the events of the night because he has a girlfriend and didn't even want to know about that stuff. That doesn't sound like innocence, it sounds like willful ignorance. <modsnip>. I think it highlights that the attitudes pervasive in allowing rape culture to persist are held by so many members of communities in which it does that it seems normal, <modsnip>

I honestly don't know about threats against this family. I haven't seen any confirmed by local law enforcement or covered in the press. I'm not saying they haven't happened. I am saying that just because someone has claimed they have been harassed that does not mean that I will give them a pass when their public statements are incongruous with my experience of conscientiousness community membership.
 
Anyone watching this ABC 20/20? A lot of info coming out about the trial. And MR - oh please.......................

Sad really. Thinking about "The Blind Side" and how that young man went in such a different direction. He got his Super Bowl ring this year. MR had the same chance - he was on his way. Yet, the direction he chose is the exact opposite.

I missed why he left that family - they just said he was only with them for 2 years and then didn't say where he went. Did he go back to his mother?





JMHO
 
They didn't explain that on 20/20. Horrible story. Makes me fearful for the future.
 
erik28 said:
<modsnip> M.H. voluntarily participated in that interview for the purpose of releasing it to the general public, and so I don't see how reasonable public comment can be likened to crucifixion.

I'm not able to quote the interview at the moment, but near the beginning, M.H. specifically states that one of the reasons he is giving the interview is so that he can say what he wants to say. I hear quite a few problematic approaches and phrases in M.H.'s statements, but nowhere do I say that I think he committed a crime, should be public enemy #1, or anything of the sort. I have already commented about Bellardine and the issue of mandated reporters potentially not fulfilling their legal obligations.

Much of this case has centered around the concept of rape culture and whether those in the community of friends and families associated with those charged and witnessing the crimes against Jane Doe either think the sexual assaults were acceptable or choose to look the other way and not report them for various reasons.

M.H. sounds like he was more concerned about having his basement featured in objectionable content than he was that a substantially incapacitated girl was raped repeatedly that night, while in the company of friends of his child and after leaving his house. He also makes statements about how his son wasn't involved in the events of the night because he has a girlfriend and didn't even want to know about that stuff. That doesn't sound like innocence, it sounds like willful ignorance. <modsnip> I think it highlights that the attitudes pervasive in allowing rape culture to persist are held by so many members of communities in which it does that it seems normal, <modsnip>

I honestly don't know about threats against this family. I haven't seen any confirmed by local law enforcement or covered in the press. I'm not saying they haven't happened. I am saying that just because someone has claimed they have been harassed that does not mean that I will give them a pass when their public statements are incongruous with my experience of conscientiousness community membership.
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:clap: Thanks wasnt enough...
 
Glow said:
20/20 is the media spin on this story.
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That it was. I didn't even watch it all because of that. I had the feeling of...oh feel sorry for the two of us and all our potential. jmo
 
I recorded it and I'm wondering if I should watch it. Is it an hour similar to the short CNN piece?
 
Steely Dan said:
I recorded it and I'm wondering if I should watch it. Is it an hour similar to the short CNN piece?
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Watch it steely. They map out the nights events - the graphics are interesting - it shows each of the 3 houses and how far apart they were.





JMHO
 
You can tell MR is lying so bad. Sad part is I bet he got paid to be on there
 
popsicle said:
That it was. I didn't even watch it all because of that. I had the feeling of...oh feel sorry for the two of us and all our potential. jmo
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I actually thought 20/20 made the two boys look pretty bad. Malik especially.
 
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