Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

[Springrain]

I don't know if you all noticed this other WS thread. This UID's body was discovered two days before BG. Although she was believed to be killed I believe six months to a year before she was found. It was an older woman. What if BG was traveling with this woman or what if BG was related to this woman? What if BG was held captive by someone up to a year? What if the other UID Was discovered and the captor freaked out two days later because the other body was found and killed BG? It appears to me from the way that the other woman was dressed, she may have been a traveler. I'm having trouble mapping to see exactly where Dobbstown, Ohio is. I think there was a name change of towns in that area. Read Carl's post # 2 for a BG Mention in that thread. But I think that there could be a connection based on this hypothetical that I have mentioned.

Does anyone else think that maybe the other UID should be pollen tested if possible to see if it matches up with BG's tests or that their DNA, if any, should be compared?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...he-Well-WhtFem-UP6259-30-60-in-cistern-Apr-81

Love this find. I don't personally think that she was help captive but I do think she could have travelled with this woman. Makes me wonder if she was perhaps the niece of this woman, and they were living together with the aunt's abusive husband. He killed the aunt, and BG ran away months later, fearing for her life. Then he flipped out and killed her, too? Just a thought.

Interesting possibility, it worked for the uid baby in suitcase in Australia case- iirc, an uid woman who was found in a different location from the child, ended up being the mother.
One small coincidence with Buckskin and the woman in the well, is the rubber bands, no biggy, but it would be interesting if the other uid female's ones are blue like BSG's elastic bands, imo.

Would like to know what kind of rubber bands were on the woman's wrists, and if they were similar to BG's. "Rubber band" means different things to different people; it could mean office supplies to some, or the hair ties that come in packs.

 

[Springrain]

Wanted to go back and re-edit #1459: the similarity of the lack of sexual assault also made at least one person on WS speculate that Buckskin Girl and Tammy Jo Alexander (FKA Cali Doe) had been killed by the same person. I don't really believe it but it is some interesting food for thought.

Anyway, I wish there was something I could do to try and help. But it's so frustrating because there is nothing I can do, except post articles on her Facebook page. I don't live near Ohio, and I don't live in the Northeast anymore (I live by Seattle now). Someone has to know who she is! I just wish there was a way I could magically find them.

 

[Alleykins]

Sharon Pretorius is on the rule out list, but I agree with you, she does bear a strong resemblance to BG. The only real physical discrepancy I could find is the eye color.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

The amount of scars on BG point to a "tomboy" kind of woman. I think she was way into "living her life her way" (as evidenced by her good health, exposure to sun & her quirky fashion.)

Also hitchhiking was glamorized in the early 1970s- if BG hung around with older people (a common way to get drugs & get invited to parties) she might have been doing it a lot because in her youthful mind it didn't seem so odd/dangerous. Also hate to say it..... someone in her "circle of friends" might have been planning to attack her for a long time & invited her along on a trip...which ended poorly for her.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

Wanted to go back and re-edit #1459: the similarity of the lack of sexual assault also made at least one person on WS speculate that Buckskin Girl and Tammy Jo Alexander (FKA Cali Doe) had been killed by the same person. I don't really believe it but it is some interesting food for thought.

It's completely possible. A woman who narrowly escaped a serial killing truck driver mentioned A LOT of truckers she hitched with would make advances (sexually) but most could be dealt with......She literally jumped out of the cab to evade the particular violent trucker she had tried to ride with & that's how she survived.

& Keep in mind long haul truckers can go anywhere & work anywhere. It's one industry where being weird & transient doesn't work against you. Easy for a troubled person for evade detection & travel far.

 

[Springrain]

The amount of scars on BG point to a "tomboy" kind of woman. I think she was way into "living her life her way" (as evidenced by her good health, exposure to sun & her quirky fashion.)

Also hitchhiking was glamorized in the early 1970s- if BG hung around with older people (a common way to get drugs & get invited to parties) she might have been doing it a lot because in her youthful mind it didn't seem so odd/dangerous. Also hate to say it..... someone in her "circle of friends" might have been planning to attack her for a long time & invited her along on a trip...which ended poorly for her.

Agree about the tomboy thing. The scars alone wouldn't really point to that (I'm a typical feminine, airheaded teenage girl, who has so many scars from being a klutz). I do think she was in that lifestyle because she appeared to be someone who engaged in physical activity and spent lots of time outdoors.

I like your theory that she had been killed by one or more "friends" on a trip. Makes me wonder if she died in the Southwest, they made it to Ohio and dumped her body there, and returned to the Northeast claiming she "just ran off".

If they weren't that far South, maybe they made it to Ohio in 12 hours, dumped her body on a rural road in the hopes of no one finding her, and Buckskin Girl's body was then found.

Maybe her boyfriend was into drugs, and a deal went awry. They took and killed her, and he knew it, but was too afraid to speak up because he knew he would be killed.

I still think this was personal. This just screams to me that it was personal. I swear I can see her betrayal in her facial expression--though that's hardly scientific.

 

[Springrain]

The amount of scars on BG point to a "tomboy" kind of woman. I think she was way into "living her life her way" (as evidenced by her good health, exposure to sun & her quirky fashion.)

Also hitchhiking was glamorized in the early 1970s- if BG hung around with older people (a common way to get drugs & get invited to parties) she might have been doing it a lot because in her youthful mind it didn't seem so odd/dangerous. Also hate to say it..... someone in her "circle of friends" might have been planning to attack her for a long time & invited her along on a trip...which ended poorly for her.

Agree about the tomboy thing. The scars alone wouldn't really point to that (I'm a typical feminine, airheaded teenage girl, who has so many scars from being a klutz). I do think she was in that lifestyle because she appeared to be someone who engaged in physical activity and spent lots of time outdoors.

I like your theory that she had been killed by one or more "friends" on a trip. Makes me wonder if she died in the Southwest, they made it to Ohio and dumped her body there, and returned to the Northeast claiming she "just ran off".

If they weren't that far South, maybe they made it to Ohio in 12 hours, dumped her body on a rural road in the hopes of no one finding her, and Buckskin Girl's body was then found.

Maybe her boyfriend was into drugs, and a deal went awry. They took and killed her, and he knew it, but was too afraid to speak up because he knew he would be killed.

I still think this was personal. This just screams to me that it was personal. I swear I can see her betrayal in her facial expression--though that's hardly scientific.

 

[Cryptic]

About the fantasy thing; I don't know if you saw the earlier posts, but way far back, some people were speculating that her killer had braided her hair and dressed her in Native American-inspired garb to fulfill a fantasy or fetish. I think that's possible

Possible, but I dont think it is very likely. At the end of the day, very few men know how to braid hair- espescially in neat, consistent braids.

I like this, too. I was raised in a tiny town in the Northeast, in Vermont, and there were always flea markets. Maybe she bought the jacket and jeans there, and had never been to the Southwest.

Or given to her as a gift?

The jacket was handmade. Handmade clothes are very rare to begin with and probably even rarer in thrift stores as they usually mean something to the owner or maker and thus are less likely to be donated. Also, look at the fit. The jacket looks like it could have been made for her. As far as the buckskin or western look, the jacket seems more "urban cowboy" (urban cowboy style was big in the 1970s, early 1980s.) to me than genuinely western.

Handmade requires skill. In this case, the skill was in a craft (sewing) that was steadily dying even in the 1980s. I am thinking that two broad sets of people would of had that skill:

A. Elderly or middle aged women, mostly in rural areas, but some in urban who sewed as a traditional hobby.

B. Younger hippies. I am generally aware that female hippies liked craft skills. They were also probably more willing to experiment in regards to urban cowboy looks etc. The fact that the jacket design looks vaguelly native american may of also gotten the interest of a hippy crafter.

So, maybe the victim and perhaps, say a tavelling boyfriend fell in with some of the declining number of hippies that were still on the road? She was befriended and then given the jacket as a gift. She then buys the wrangelers to match the jacket?

 

[Springrain]

Possible, but I dont think it is very likely. At the end of the day, very few men know how to braid hair- espescially in neat, consistent braids.

I agree that it's not very likely--just bringing up some older theories. Lots of men know how to braid hair, though--it's not that difficult or distinctly feminine to be able to braid.

Or given to her as a gift?

The jacket was handmade. Handmade clothes are very rare to begin with and probably even rarer in thrift stores as they usually mean something to the owner or maker and thus are less likely to be donated. Also, look at the fit. The jacket looks like it could have been made for her. As far as the buckskin or western look, the jacket seems more "urban cowboy" (urban cowboy style was big in the 1970s, early 1980s.) to me than genuinely western.

I don't know why one would wear a turtleneck and a leather pullover during mid-late April in the Southwest. I mean, I even get cold pretty easily, but this seems excessive. This does make me wonder: was she dressing in layers and relocating to a warmer locale, with the intention of becoming a drifter or a panhandler? Homeless folks often relocate to warmer places, obviously because they're more mild during winter. Could she have relocated a couple weeks earlier, and something happened?

I agree that the jacket doesn't seem genuinely Western or cowgirl-like.

Handmade requires skill. In this case, the skill was in a craft (sewing) that was steadily dying even in the 1980s. I am thinking that two broad sets of people would of had that skill:

A. Elderly or middle aged women, mostly in rural areas, but some in urban who sewed as a traditional hobby.

B. Younger hippies. I am generally aware that female hippies liked craft skills. They were also probably more willing to experiment in regards to urban cowboy looks etc. The fact that the jacket design looks vaguelly native american may of also gotten the interest of a hippy crafter.

So, maybe the victim and perhaps, say a tavelling boyfriend fell in with some of the declining number of hippies that were still on the road? She was befriended and then given the jacket as a gift. She then buys the wrangelers to match the jacket?

I really want to know how the jacket fit her. It looks a tad bit big for her, a 5'6 130 lb. woman, to me, but there could be a few factors that go into that. Did she have broad shoulders? I have broad shoulders, and oftentimes clothes fit me funny because of that. She wore a 32D bra, so she could have wanted something to accompany her chest, but a 32 back isn't very wide--I kind of get the feel that the jacket was made for someone with a wide back. The purple satin lining seems like a personal touch, of course.

 

[carbuff]

C. Young people, mostly girls, in programs like 4H and Young Grange, where sewing was a major activity and major projects like this jacket were common.

And while sewing skills may have been declining, they were still common in '81, especially in rural areas.

eta: The size seems about right for an outer garment -- roomy enough to fit comfortably over a turtleneck and still leave room for motion.

Whenever I picture her, I see her doing chores around a farm or rural house. Carrying a bucket out to feed the chickens or something.

 

[BayouGypsy]

I kind of get the "Biker" and maybe college or some sort of study group? The jacket and sweater underneath would be good for a bike trip, especially if planning to travel a great distance. The braids in the hair would be very useful to prevent tangles. Maybe the idea of travel on a bike would explain the presence of soot and exhaust? I doubt the jacket would have been the killer's, though. I can't really imagine him/her leaving it with a dead body. To me, a jacket like that would have been pretty special.

 

[carbuff]

Also with only a short front opening, it would have been difficult to get it onto a dead body.

I can see college student. Considering the time of the year, maybe she was going to school in the northeast and heading back after spring break in the southwest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Evaluna]

Spring rain,
You make some really good points here!
I can see that the murderer had some type of affection or sympathy for her because she was left fully clothed so as not to take away her dignity.
I thought also of walker county Jane doe as far as the sexual assault goes.
Such a sad case!
I also thought that perhaps she was a prostitute initially, but immediately discarded that theory.
She doesn't strike me as a person of the streets (no disrespect)
I see her more as an adventurer, a girl that just wanted to experience life and may have hitched rides to get her to certain destinations.
Perhaps she always wanted to tour the country.
But it could be anything, that's what makes this so frustrating!
It seems the more information that comes out the more mysterious this case gets.

Some one mentioned awhile back about the teens these days that dress up for events like comicon. I know from personal knowledge because my nieces do exactly that.
They spend months creating their costumes and they often take rides from friends of friends.
She could've been on her way to an event and got a ride from someone she was told she could trust.
It's a little far fetched but I don't really know what to make of this case because many of the theories given here are completely plausible.

Some one also mentioned earlier that they have tried to send this story to certain news stations but haven't had any luck with them picking up the story.
What about sending it to Nancy Grace?
I think it would reach a wider audience if she picked up the story.

 

[dotr]

Also with only a short front opening, it would have been difficult to get it onto a dead body.

I can see college student. Considering the time of the year, maybe she was going to school in the northeast and heading back after spring break in the southwest.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is exactly what i am thinking, this girl was at school or school related event, or on spring break and maybe met up with a b.friend who lived/ went to school out of town, or simply a new acquaintance from whom she accepted a ride, imo.

 

[Cryptic]

I
I really want to know how the jacket fit her. It looks a tad bit big for her, a 5'6 130 lb. woman, to me, but there could be a few factors that go into that. Did she have broad shoulders? I have broad shoulders, and oftentimes clothes fit me funny because of that. She wore a 32D bra, so she could have wanted something to accompany her chest, but a 32 back isn't very wide--I kind of get the feel that the jacket was made for someone with a wide back.

OK, I have to admit that my belief that the jacket fits her is from the opinion of a 45 year old male who wears T-shirts alot. Thus, pretty much everything fits to me. But, I did think the trim line of the jacket to tassels matched her hips.

The South west gets hot, but alot of the deserts there are high altitude deserts. April is still spring, and spring time in high altitude deserts can get chilly in the evenings or mornings. Deserts also lack cloud cover. So, the heat from the day quickly radiates back into space. When I worked in the area, I was surprisied on how quickly the temperature could fall at night.

The Southwest gets hot, but alot of the deserts are high altitude deserts. April is still spring, and spring time in high altitude deserts can get chilly in the evenings or mornings. Deserts also lack cloud cover. So, the heat from the day quickly radiates back into space. When I worked in the area, I was surprised on how quickly the temperature could fall at night.

I agree that it's not very likely--just bringing up some older theories. Lots of men know how to braid hair, though--it's not that difficult or distinctly feminine to be able to braid.

I still disagree. Braiding hair is usually very femine. I have never heard any of my friends make even an indirect reference to knowing how to braid hair. For better or for worse, I would not be an enthusiastic learner even if a woman wanted to show me how. Aside from say a man going Willie Nelson, or a single father with a daughter, I am convinced that the number of men who knbow how to braid hair, and espescially tight braids, is very small.

C. Young people, mostly girls, in programs like 4H and Young Grange, where sewing was a major activity and major projects like this jacket were common.

And while sewing skills may have been declining, they were still common in '81, especially in rural areas.

Good point. The early 1980s (and she was found in the very early 1980s, thus the jacket could have been made in the late 1970s) was probably the last period with large numbers of rural youth in 4-H activities that emphasized traiditional skills. As you mentioned, a jacket like that would make a good project for such a girl.

 

[Springrain]

Spring rain,
You make some really good points here!
I can see that the murderer had some type of affection or sympathy for her because she was left fully clothed so as not to take away her dignity.
I thought also of walker county Jane doe as far as the sexual assault goes.
Such a sad case!

I can actually see the murderer leaving her clothes on to protect her dignity--I like that point! There's a couple cases on here where the victim has been left nude, despite not being sexually assaulted, maybe as a way of humiliating them after death.

I also thought that perhaps she was a prostitute initially, but immediately discarded that theory.
She doesn't strike me as a person of the streets (no disrespect)
I see her more as an adventurer, a girl that just wanted to experience life and may have hitched rides to get her to certain destinations.
Perhaps she always wanted to tour the country.
But it could be anything, that's what makes this so frustrating!
It seems the more information that comes out the more mysterious this case gets.

I wonder if it was some longtime goal of hers to go to a specific location in the Southwest (like, say, Hollywood. I know lots of people who've talked about having wanted to visit LA, specifically Hollywood, their whole lives). She visited the place, maybe couldn't get enough money for a bus ticket back to the Northeast, and decided to take a chance hitching rides.

Some one mentioned awhile back about the teens these days that dress up for events like comicon. I know from personal knowledge because my nieces do exactly that.
They spend months creating their costumes and they often take rides from friends of friends.
She could've been on her way to an event and got a ride from someone she was told she could trust.
It's a little far fetched but I don't really know what to make of this case because many of the theories given here are completely plausible.

That was me, lol! Yeah, Comic Con and similar conventions are huge right now. I know lots of people at my school who are big into that scene, mostly being obsessed with the Japanese cartoons out nowadays. Maybe the person giving the ride was a mutual friend, and the common friend knew of the murder, but kept mum because of fear.

This reminds me of a story (off topic): in the 90s, my father had a work friend, and he would sometimes to go the work friend's house for barbecues and cook-outs. At one such get-together, my dad's friend had invited a couple he'd known for a while. They appeared to be completely (and I mean, completely) messed up on hard drugs. The woman, particularly so. About a month later, it was reported that she had died in a house fire. My father spoke with the friend about this, and the friend very heavily implied that the guy confessed to killing her. However, the killer's dad was the head of the sheriff's office, and it was never investigated as a homicide.

My father's friend never spoke more of it, because he was afraid of what the killer would do.

Some one also mentioned earlier that they have tried to send this story to certain news stations but haven't had any luck with them picking up the story.
What about sending it to Nancy Grace?
I think it would reach a wider audience if she picked up the story.

That was me (again. Lol), but shortly thereafter, a ton of news stations did reports on her after the results of the pollen testing came out!

As much as I personally cannot stand Nancy Grace, I have to say this is a pretty good idea! It'd be great to see a widely-viewed crime show really dig into UID cases.

How I wish that popular events, such as the Superbowl, had unidentified people broadcast during breaks instead of Coca-Cola commercials. Oh, a girl can dream... :sigh:

 

[Roselvr]

I'm hardly an expert on buckskin but to me, her jacket looks fairly well worn, or "broken in", but not used to the point of basically falling apart. I'm trying to estimate how much it would have cost then; assuming she would have made it by hand it seems it would be relatively cheap. $5 for the pattern itself but the fabric prices vary. Could it have been imitation deerskin?
I wonder if she did make it herself though: it looks well-made, and sturdy, though I suppose I wouldn't know about how easy it is, seeing as I am a novice seamstress. Anyone know anything about pricing? Etsy has some similar-ish ones that are pretty expensive, but Etsy has absurd prices anyhow. lol.

Some people have signature looks. I'm "the girl with the red lipstick and blue Converse." She might have been remembered as "the girl with that fringey jacket", but I kind of doubt someone that she knew in high school or college (assuming that she had attended college) would necessarily remember the jacket if it wasn't her signature piece. Honestly, if I saw her out and about in the jacket, I'd say something along "Cool jacket," and keep walking. It just doesn't really seem to be that rare or eye-catching to me. Then again, I might be kind of out-of-the-loop, because the young adults/teenagers in my neighborhood always seem to be wearing Comic Con costumes.

I used to wear a black leather biker jacket in high school.
I wish I remembered how much I paid for leather back then. It wasn't much

Possible, but I dont think it is very likely. At the end of the day, very few men know how to braid hair- espescially in neat, consistent braids.


Or given to her as a gift?

The jacket was handmade. Handmade clothes are very rare to begin with and probably even rarer in thrift stores as they usually mean something to the owner or maker and thus are less likely to be donated. Also, look at the fit. The jacket looks like it could have been made for her. As far as the buckskin or western look, the jacket seems more "urban cowboy" (urban cowboy style was big in the 1970s, early 1980s.) to me than genuinely western.

Handmade requires skill. In this case, the skill was in a craft (sewing) that was steadily dying even in the 1980s. I am thinking that two broad sets of people would of had that skill:

A. Elderly or middle aged women, mostly in rural areas, but some in urban who sewed as a traditional hobby.

B. Younger hippies. I am generally aware that female hippies liked craft skills. They were also probably more willing to experiment in regards to urban cowboy looks etc. The fact that the jacket design looks vaguelly native american may of also gotten the interest of a hippy crafter.

So, maybe the victim and perhaps, say a tavelling boyfriend fell in with some of the declining number of hippies that were still on the road? She was befriended and then given the jacket as a gift. She then buys the wrangelers to match the jacket?

My high school had shops, sewing was one of them. We took every shop in 8th grade so we knew which shop we wanted for the rest of high school. I graduated in 83

I kind of get the "Biker" and maybe college or some sort of study group? The jacket and sweater underneath would be good for a bike trip, especially if planning to travel a great distance. The braids in the hair would be very useful to prevent tangles. Maybe the idea of travel on a bike would explain the presence of soot and exhaust? I doubt the jacket would have been the killer's, though. I can't really imagine him/her leaving it with a dead body. To me, a jacket like that would have been pretty special.

Exactly what I said.

OK, I have to admit that my belief that the jacket fits her is from the opinion of a 45 year old male who wears T-shirts alot. Thus, pretty much everything fits to me. But, I did think the trim line of the jacket to tassels matched her hips.


The Southwest gets hot, but alot of the deserts are high altitude deserts. April is still spring, and spring time in high altitude deserts can get chilly in the evenings or mornings. Deserts also lack cloud cover. So, the heat from the day quickly radiates back into space. When I worked in the area, I was surprised on how quickly the temperature could fall at night.

I still disagree. Braiding hair is usually very femine. I have never heard any of my friends make even an indirect reference to knowing how to braid hair. For better or for worse, I would not be an enthusiastic learner even if a woman wanted to show me how. Aside from say a man going Willie Nelson, or a single father with a daughter, I am convinced that the number of men who knbow how to braid hair, and espescially tight braids, is very small.

Good point. The early 1980s (and she was found in the very early 1980s, thus the jacket could have been made in the late 1970s) was probably the last period with large numbers of rural youth in 4-H activities that emphasized traiditional skills. As you mentioned, a jacket like that would make a good project for such a girl.

We have never seen a pic of BG wearing her clothes except for Carl's interpretation.
Back when BG was found was the generation of men that had long hair; many men knew how to braid hair. My 30yr old son has long hair, knows how to braid.

I pretty much taught myself to sew leather back then, I was making small fringed bags, pants, chaps, vests, even a hat.

My friend who reminds me of BG has a daughter that's in 4H. It's alive and well in NJ.

http://www.whio.com/news/news/crime...-of-miami-county/nrC57/?videoIconPresent=true

Includes a 44-second long video (and I had to watch a one-minute add to access it. lol).

"'The isotope testing may give us a better idea of where she’s spent time as opposed to the pollen results,' Lord said. 'We are going to follow where the evidence takes us. This case has never left a detectives desk since 1981, it has never been up in a drawer, we have been working it.'Lord said the department has also gotten tips about some females that had been previously excluded as possibilities.
'We’ve received a lot of general information tips that cannot be verified due to the vagueness of the information,' Lord said."

The part I bolded seriously got my heart racing. People could be calling in vague tips like "I went to a summer camp in Montpelier in 1980. One of my counselors looks just like the Jane Doe, I think her name was Shannon, Sharon, or something similar," or hopefully something more specific like "I haven't heard from my cousin, Leslie, in 35 years, she kind of looks like the picture, we lived in Boston, we wore shirts that looked like that," etc. etc. My imagination is running away with itself right now...

Probably the Becky info.

 

[Alleykins]

It's possible they were traveling with a bike(or bikes), if they were recently in the south-west, only I can't imagine them riding them so far north in April, especially if they were heading further east. Yikes, we just got 3 inches of snow today in parts of my state-in May! Perhaps they were traveling in a camper type vehicle and hauling a bike(or bikes) to use in the warmer climates. I also can't imagine transporting a body on a motorcycle, so I don't believe it was their main source of transportation, maybe a secondary one.

 

[carbuff]

re: the sexual assault question. I don't see anything about the facts that have been released that would rule out a woman as the killer.

 

[kat913]

Just my two cents....I still think she may be from Canada....caught ride with trucker heading south on I-75 and last stop before I-70/I-75 interchange would have been Ludlow Falls exit (in the 80's). There might have been warehouse business at that exit or just a few miles north of the exit is Cargill (which was in exsitence in '81). I just feel that leaving her in the middle of the night and catching I-70 in either direction would have left the crime miles behind and no direction to look. I have been down that road at night and not only is it very dark but there is hardly a house in sight. I turned my headlights off and it was completely black all around...sure that in the 80's it would have been just as remote. Also I had a "short career driving truck" and if the road is the same as it was in '81...it is quite easy to navigate. I sure hope there is some closure soon!