Identified! OH - Troy, Miami Co., 'Buckskin Girl' WhtFem 133UFOH, 15-25, Apr'81 - Marcia King

[Alleykins]

Wow! 2 million? Holy cow, that's a lot, small wonder it's not SOP for law enforcement. I figure unless it's come down a lot, it's still unobtainable for most small town pd's.

 

[carbuff]

I believe it's a technique that was originally developed to identify the age of archaeological remains.

 

[Alleykins]

I believe it's a technique that was originally developed to identify the age of archaeological remains.

That makes sense.

 

[BayouGypsy]

Can someone please explain to me, because I just don't understand how this works. Our Buckskin Girl has over 200 exclusions on her list, meaning that over 200 missing girls have been confirmed to be not her. Does this mean that those girls are also automatically ruled out as being other girls in the database or just for BG? All these missing and unidentified people and none match anyone? I honestly just don't understand how this works, not trying to be argumentative or anything.

 

[carbuff]

No, the ruleouts list only refers to comparisons with BG. Yes, all those missing and unidentified don't have anybody to match with yet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kat913]

What an interesting ride this thread has been. I haven't posted for a few years and this new information is very promising. I still believe she is from a different region (I used to think Ireland or Canada) and she worked/voluneered at the nearby nature center...which would possibly explain why she has remained UID for so long. I live in Ohio and back in 90's the YMCA camps had young people come from Ireland to work with the children for the spring/summer. Maybe back in the 80's they came from Canada? Anyway keep up all the good work, sleuths. Hoping one day she will have a name.

 

[Alleykins]

The summer camp I attended back in the 70s & early 80s hired folks from abroad, too. We had one married couple who came over from the UK 3 or 4 times for the summer. In addition to them, we had counselors from Finland, Sweden, France, Yugoslavia, South America, and Zimbabwe.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

I recently had the idea- could someone facebook BG's pics & info to alumni associations in the NorthEast US? Due to her age & apparent lifestyle it's very likely one of her friends from her teenaged years or from college might remember her. Face it, a lot of us have sunny, ideal memories of our youthful years for different reasons. Someone might have been wondering where she went all these years...

Also I'd agree with another person in this thread who said BG might be from Ireland. Her coloring is so fair, & her facial structure looks so much like someone who only has European bloodlines.... (in my experience).....people with indigenous blood tend to have finer cheekbone definition, certain kinds of nose shapes, and tend towards smaller bone structure. BG is on the tall side for a North American woman of that era, and is so super fair complected. *Again* these are just my observations from my lifetime experience.

(Related note- I also know from my family that Immigration law enforcement was more lax in the 1970s & 80s....It's very likely that someone like BG who might have immigrated from Europe & let her papers expire could have easily blended in & evaded the attention of Immigration. I've known people who have done it.)

edit to add- my other random guess about the ugly clothing is if she worked a lot of hard labor odd jobs (painting, farm work. etc.) she would obviously not wear nice designer clothing too often. & Travelers will often pick up 2ndhand clothing at thrift shops if they lose luggage or are not able to do laundry right away. Just some ideas. I personally keep garments from decades back & don't care what people think of my fashion sense- it's part of the "free spirit" mentality.

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

Double post; the lack of jewelry and shoes could point to robbery (as others have brought up before). I wonder if she was in the Brukner nature center, wearing jewelry, nice shoes, and carrying a purse/backpack when she got attacked. They were in the middle of stealing her purse, she fought back, they ended up killing her. Her belongings might have been pawned off.

My #1 thought is that her murder was the product of excessive rage and not random. I'm fairly sure her killer knew her and was close to her.

This is off-topic, but was the brand of her bra determined? Perhaps, where it was being sold could be traced.

Later today, I want to compile all the theories I've rambled on about into a list.

This post reminded me- I've witnessed a blitz attack mugging (Mission District of San Francisco) & it was 5-6 guys pummeling one victim. If BG had been ganged up on, the severity of her wounds would make sense. The strangulation might have been to ensure she wouldn't come to & be able to describe her attackers. Hate to say it but smaller groups of people have done worse things to unsuspecting victims.

 

[Springrain]

I'm hardly an expert on buckskin but to me, her jacket looks fairly well worn, or "broken in", but not used to the point of basically falling apart. I'm trying to estimate how much it would have cost then; assuming she would have made it by hand it seems it would be relatively cheap. $5 for the pattern itself but the fabric prices vary. Could it have been imitation deerskin?
I wonder if she did make it herself though: it looks well-made, and sturdy, though I suppose I wouldn't know about how easy it is, seeing as I am a novice seamstress. Anyone know anything about pricing? Etsy has some similar-ish ones that are pretty expensive, but Etsy has absurd prices anyhow. lol.

Some people have signature looks. I'm "the girl with the red lipstick and blue Converse." She might have been remembered as "the girl with that fringey jacket", but I kind of doubt someone that she knew in high school or college (assuming that she had attended college) would necessarily remember the jacket if it wasn't her signature piece. Honestly, if I saw her out and about in the jacket, I'd say something along "Cool jacket," and keep walking. It just doesn't really seem to be that rare or eye-catching to me. Then again, I might be kind of out-of-the-loop, because the young adults/teenagers in my neighborhood always seem to be wearing Comic Con costumes.

 

[Springrain]

I recently had the idea- could someone facebook BG's pics & info to alumni associations in the NorthEast US? Due to her age & apparent lifestyle it's very likely one of her friends from her teenaged years or from college might remember her. Face it, a lot of us have sunny, ideal memories of our youthful years for different reasons. Someone might have been wondering where she went all these years...

Also I'd agree with another person in this thread who said BG might be from Ireland. Her coloring is so fair, & her facial structure looks so much like someone who only has European bloodlines.... (in my experience).....people with indigenous blood tend to have finer cheekbone definition, certain kinds of nose shapes, and tend towards smaller bone structure. BG is on the tall side for a North American woman of that era, and is so super fair complected. *Again* these are just my observations from my lifetime experience.

(Related note- I also know from my family that Immigration law enforcement was more lax in the 1970s & 80s....It's very likely that someone like BG who might have immigrated from Europe & let her papers expire could have easily blended in & evaded the attention of Immigration. I've known people who have done it.)

edit to add- my other random guess about the ugly clothing is if she worked a lot of hard labor odd jobs (painting, farm work. etc.) she would obviously not wear nice designer clothing too often. & Travelers will often pick up 2ndhand clothing at thrift shops if they lose luggage or are not able to do laundry right away. Just some ideas. I personally keep garments from decades back & don't care what people think of my fashion sense- it's part of the "free spirit" mentality.

While I do think she definitely could have had Irish ancestry, I don't think she was necessarily from Ireland. So many Caucasians are partially Irish, myself included. I know a kid at school; he looks just like Buckskin Girl. Same dang nose! He was raised in the area but I believe he is of mainly Irish descent.

fftopic: As for the complexion thing; I have a similar skin color as the NCMEC recon of BG. I don't have many facial freckles, but I do have a sprinkling of very light, sandy freckles across my shoulders in the summertime. I was just sunbathing outside for ~90 minutes, and I have suddenly gained a dozen freckles on my arms.

I like the thrift store clothing theory: makes me wonder if she picked up the jacket and jeans at a thrift store shortly before she died, and they already had the Southwest pollen on them.

 

[nerosleuth]

I like the thrift store clothing theory: makes me wonder if she picked up the jacket and jeans at a thrift store shortly before she died, and they already had the Southwest pollen on them.

Another possibility is that she may have picked up the jacket and jeans at a flea market somewhere. I'm thinking of flea markets that are held on the weekends in small towns and rural areas.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

maybe we are sticking too close to the drop site. The western Ohio lakeshore of Lake Erie has Cedar Point, Put-in-Bay and the islands (basically summer tourist islands) Middle Bass, Kelley's Island, Marblehead. Put-in-Bay and Cedar Point in particular have all kinds of young foreign people or students working the tourist spots in the summer. Straight up I75 from the drop site is the route you would take. Just east of where you go up I75 through Toledo is the Cedar Point Wildlife Reserve. You go further east and you hit the other tourist spots. To this day, many foreign young people work at these spots. I'm not sure if that was the case in the 80s but I believe it was highly likely.

 

[Owutatangledweb]

I don't know if you all noticed this other WS thread. This UID's body was discovered two days before BG. Although she was believed to be killed I believe six months to a year before she was found. It was an older woman. What if BG was traveling with this woman or what if BG was related to this woman? What if BG was held captive by someone up to a year? What if the other UID Was discovered and the captor freaked out two days later because the other body was found and killed BG? It appears to me from the way that the other woman was dressed, she may have been a traveler. I'm having trouble mapping to see exactly where Dobbstown, Ohio is. I think there was a name change of towns in that area. Read Carl's post # 2 for a BG Mention in that thread. But I think that there could be a connection based on this hypothetical that I have mentioned.

Does anyone else think that maybe the other UID should be pollen tested if possible to see if it matches up with BG's tests or that their DNA, if any, should be compared?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...he-Well-WhtFem-UP6259-30-60-in-cistern-Apr-81

 

[WyomingSkyAngel]

BG was a very pretty young lady- I'm sure she had a few close friends & maybe a few exes by the time she died. I'm sure someone might recognize her with the photo getting circulated nationwide.

It's entirely possible she made her jacket herself. Clothing patterns were super popular & at home cloth-making/home ec was much bigger back then.

 

[dotr]

I don't know if you all noticed this other WS thread. This UID's body was discovered two days before BG. Although she was believed to be killed I believe six months to a year before she was found. It was an older woman. What if BG was traveling with this woman or what if BG was related to this woman? What if BG was held captive by someone up to a year? What if the other UID Was discovered and the captor freaked out two days later because the other body was found and killed BG? It appears to me from the way that the other woman was dressed, she may have been a traveler. I'm having trouble mapping to see exactly where Dobbstown, Ohio is. I think there was a name change of towns in that area. Read Carl's post # 2 for a BG Mention in that thread. But I think that there could be a connection based on this hypothetical that I have mentioned.

Does anyone else think that maybe the other UID should be pollen tested if possible to see if it matches up with BG's tests or that their DNA, if any, should be compared?

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...he-Well-WhtFem-UP6259-30-60-in-cistern-Apr-81

Interesting possibility, it worked for the uid baby in suitcase in Australia case- iirc, an uid woman who was found in a different location from the child, ended up being the mother.
One small coincidence with Buckskin and the woman in the well, is the rubber bands, no biggy, but it would be interesting if the other uid female's ones are blue like BSG's elastic bands, imo.
From the namus link on that thread..

Body was found in a covered cistern/well. Decomposition precluded recognizable facial features. Two rubber bands were around left wrist and one around right wrist

rbbm.

 

[Evaluna]

I haven't been on for about a month now, but I think about her everyday.
I was so happy to find that they actually went through with the pollen analysis!
I know we're getting closer to finding her! It's only a matter of time!!

 

[Evaluna]

I know I'm in the minority on this but I still feel this was done by someone who has killed before, or who at least has entertained those thoughts.
I believe she may have known him for a short amount of time, but not in an intimate way.
Some serial murderers do not sexual assault their victims because they are physically unable to do so and this would cause even more rage toward the victim. I've had many friends look at this case, even my brother in law who is a police sergeant in Detroit. They all believe it was domestic violence and I just can't see that.
The perpetrator took her shoes, her probably took jewelry and maybe a bag or purse that she carried.
These are all trophy items but also items that if disposed of properly would completely conceal her identity.
It would also distance the killer from having any connection with her.
The manner the crime was committed was calculating, like someone had thought about for quite some time and was fulfilling a fantasy.
LE won't disclose everything, but they know what was used to strangle her.
Is it an item of clothing that they're withholding from the public?
Her own underwear maybe, since there has been no mention of them?
It goes back to my first impression that she was cleaned up and dressed before being dumped.


This is all just my opinion of course.

 

[Springrain]

I know I'm in the minority on this but I still feel this was done by someone who has killed before, or who at least has entertained those thoughts.
I believe she may have known him for a short amount of time, but not in an intimate way.
Some serial murderers do not sexual assault their victims because they are physically unable to do so and this would cause even more rage toward the victim. I've had many friends look at this case, even my brother in law who is a police sergeant in Detroit. They all believe it was domestic violence and I just can't see that.
The perpetrator took her shoes, her probably took jewelry and maybe a bag or purse that she carried.
These are all trophy items but also items that if disposed of properly would completely conceal her identity.
It would also distance the killer from having any connection with her.
The manner the crime was committed was calculating, like someone had thought about for quite some time and was fulfilling a fantasy.
LE won't disclose everything, but they know what was used to strangle her.
Is it an item of clothing that they're withholding from the public?
Her own underwear maybe, since there has been no mention of them?
It goes back to my first impression that she was cleaned up and dressed before being dumped.


This is all just my opinion of course.

FWIW, my first thoughts from reading a brief description about her murder was that she was an sixteen-year-old Native American runaway from an Indian reservation, who had been prostituting herself as a way of survival. I read more, and saw the better recons and post-mortem photos (in which she looks older), and then I thought: DOMESTIC ABUSE. I was having that train of thought for quite a while, until the pollen testing results came out and placed her jacket and jeans in the Southwest shortly before her murder. Made me begin to wonder if she had simply hitched a ride with the wrong guy.

I agree that he may have kept jewelry, shoes, bag/purse as a "trophy". I still feel like they were in an intimate relationship (not necessarily a sexual relationship--although that's still one of my main guesses) and it was done in a moment of rage, but he may have felt somewhat "remorseful" and taken it to "remember her by." Personally, I feel like her killer was emotionally unstable and one thing set him off; but that's just my opinion.

I remember, in Walker County Jane Doe's thread, it was being discussed that her killer may have been impotent. She had been vaginally and anally assaulted, but not through penile penetration. A bunch of people (myself included), have speculated that her killer lashed out at women due to anger over his erectile dysfunction.

About the fantasy thing; I don't know if you saw the earlier posts, but way far back, some people were speculating that her killer had braided her hair and dressed her in Native American-inspired garb to fulfill a fantasy or fetish. I think that's possible

I've wondered if clothing was used for her strangulation, too. About the underwear; since I see it not mentioned on Doe Net, I've assumed it's because she wasn't found wearing any, but I wonder if it was just not mentioned? Pretty sure it would be, but it's not impossible. She could have just been going commando, or he could have strangled her with her underwear. I feel like there would be evidence of rape or other sexual activity if he had taken off her underwear, but maybe she was out cold after being struck, if that makes sense?

 

[Springrain]

Another possibility is that she may have picked up the jacket and jeans at a flea market somewhere. I'm thinking of flea markets that are held on the weekends in small towns and rural areas.

I like this, too. I was raised in a tiny town in the Northeast, in Vermont, and there were always flea markets. Maybe she bought the jacket and jeans there, and had never been to the Southwest, just picked up the pollen from the people who had been there. It's so weird to think she could've lived very close to where I was raised.