GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #4

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Ok... here it goes... JMO, thinking aloud- trying not to sound negative, but this post is kinda negative, cause I have horrible feelings about this... Nowadays, you seem to get nothing out of LE, until after a conviction is secured. Saw that in the Sandra Cantu case- answers came afterward.

When the sheriff "struggled" for words like their own "volition" etc, I think they have a pretty good idea of what may have happened, but are watching their language for a future trial.

I really think this guy is nuts and a rage-aholic. I am beginning to agree with the idea that the women or one woman may have known him very casually. This is based on two things: Firstly, the mother said that he hasn't lived in that neighborhood for 2yrs, YET he was there a few days before the crime occurred. Secondly, according to the posts here (I didn't see the presser), it was said that Sarah first met MH WITH her MOTHER AND BROTHER on WEDNESDAY. Either the kids got home together to find the mother tied up and/or incapacitated, or they got home separately. My guess on that isn't pleasant either. Stephanie was due over there (prolly b4 kids got home, since her and Tina were to go apt hunting BEFORE Tina's shift). If that is the case, he may have just knocked her out (or worse) and put her somewhere. I am guessing that Tina had been injured and perhaps restrained in some way, while he WAITED for Sarah. She would have prolly done anything to cooperate because she knew her kids were coming home. During this ordeal, he was prolly amped up on some type of drug plus his mental instability, and was drinking excessively- hence the beercans. He could have easily taken Sarah to his place where he BOUND and GAGGED her (like he prolly did to at least a few of the others).

This is where I get a bit angry, if the reported facts are correct: If I understand correctly, the cops went to the house on Wed eve at the request of Tina's boss, saw the truck there, saw lights on, but got no answer at the door and left. If this is the case, I am very, very disappointed. The mgr at DQ asked for a WELFARE CHECK, and knocking on a door and leaving is not a welfare ck. Did the officer look in all the windows? Might he have seen blood if he had? I do not know the facts for sure, so I am not condemning anyone. but I'd like to know the reality of that first welfare ck. Seems like MH had free reign there for awhile... a sick, horrible thought.

Hopefully we will find out where those poor souls are. My gut tells me that his "apple of his eye" was Sarah, and the others were OBJECTS in his way. And a yappy little dog?((sorry! I love dogs, just thinking of how he might think!)) Hate, hate to say it, but that could've been dealt with in a few seconds. Poor, poor family. He should face capital punishment for his crimes so he doesn't end up on the street again, and no one else has to go through this.

It makes me very sad to think when LE paid the first "welfare check" on Wednesday evening, that something awful may have already happened in Tina's house. How could mh have taken advantage of Tina and the family dog? I imagine that a mom and the family dog (even if it is a smaller dog, sometimes they are more trouble than a big dog) would ferociously guard their house!

Here's my thinking aloud - not sure what mh's physical characteristics are (large, small, average?) I couldn't guess very well from the mugshots, but I am betting he is average and somewhat muscular, he would have gotten that from prison and actually having to perform work at some times, not to mention climbing trees. What if mh showed up in the middle of the day, had some kind of ruse to be let inside and talk to Tina, wins her confidence for a few minutes, then subdues Tina and the dog, Stephanie shows up, he threatens to harm her as well, she is subdued, and put in a different room. Kody and/or Sarah arrive home at the same time, and/or one of the children comes in first, the other lagging behind (where is the bus stop?), it would be very easy to subdue both children on the threat of harming their mom and/or dog. Flipping the scenario over, if mh was waiting in the house for the children first, had already subdued the dog, and then the children when they came in, then if Tina and Stephanie came home from looking at apartments, they would most likely do anything to cooperate to save the children, and themselves. Either way, I am thinking the same about the dog, it was probably used to get compliance, whether by threatening to hurt it, or actually killing it, and when all the people were sufficiently subdued, it was eliminated.
 
Wow, reading about that guy's weird behavior is disturbing! He used to sit around in trees and listen outside of people's windows? The neighbors wouldn't let their children outside when they saw him out?

OMG - just a horrible crime. Reminds me of the BTK killer who would just walk into people's houses and catch them off-guard, which still gives me the creeps after all these years.
 
It makes me very sad to think when LE paid the first "welfare check" on Wednesday evening, that something awful may have already happened in Tina's house. How could mh have taken advantage of Tina and the family dog? I imagine that a mom and the family dog (even if it is a smaller dog, sometimes they are more trouble than a big dog) would ferociously guard their house!

Here's my thinking aloud - not sure what mh's physical characteristics are (large, small, average?) I couldn't guess very well from the mugshots, but I am betting he is average and somewhat muscular, he would have gotten that from prison and actually having to perform work at some times, not to mention climbing trees. What if mh showed up in the middle of the day, had some kind of ruse to be let inside and talk to Tina, wins her confidence for a few minutes, then subdues Tina and the dog, Stephanie shows up, he threatens to harm her as well, she is subdued, and put in a different room. Kody and/or Sarah arrive home at the same time, and/or one of the children comes in first, the other lagging behind (where is the bus stop?), it would be very easy to subdue both children on the threat of harming their mom and/or dog. Flipping the scenario over, if mh was waiting in the house for the children first, had already subdued the dog, and then the children when they came in, then if Tina and Stephanie came home from looking at apartments, they would most likely do anything to cooperate to save the children, and themselves. Either way, I am thinking the same about the dog, it was probably used to get compliance, whether by threatening to hurt it, or actually killing it, and when all the people were sufficiently subdued, it was eliminated.

I personally think it went down way more crazy and violent than this. I really think this talk about the dog is MOOT. He was a small dog, and could have been done in with a kick or crush ((SORRY!)) I think we need to stop worrying about the dog cause he is prolly gone, and was disposed of with the rest (god bless them). This is not a hopeful situation. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE a hopeful situation, but I think this is not one of those. I think LE knows that and is not giving any info away. I do not think bodies found yet. They will have to use special tactics with MH to get it out of him.. now that the news reports he is talking, I am thinking he is coming off drugs/alcohol. Great time to question. Hope he caves soon.

This reminds me of a fictional movie I watched. It creeped me out more than most, because of how it could be so real, and not suspected. It was a hannibal series, but not the main character. I am talking about RED DRAGON. Somehow reminds me of how some of these serial killers work... scary.
 
I am thinking, and this isn't fact, if some of us think he was on drugs (MH) what wouldn't lead us to believe that he drugged one or both the grown females? That would be a way to take out grown adults, goes down all the time in clubs (sad to say.)

Wonder if the kids were put to sleep... then subdue the adults... then bam.

I REALLY HATE TO THINK THIS WAY.

(again, this is all my speculation)
 
I think MH was in the home when the kids came home from school.
 
I am thinking, and this isn't fact, if some of us think he was on drugs (MH) what wouldn't lead us to believe that he drugged one or both the grown females? That would be a way to take out grown adults, goes down all the time in clubs (sad to say.)

Wonder if the kids were put to sleep... then subdue the adults... then bam.

I REALLY HATE TO THINK THIS WAY.

(again, this is all my speculation)

my gut says no, I do not thing the women were drugged. That is too human for him. He is into violence.. threatening the 8yr old in his neighborhood, setting condo on fire with no regard for life... abusing animals... He is a sociopath. I think he got confidence of some sort (helped possibly with drugs/alcohol) and stormed the family.... in what order, who knows, but I have my suspicions. Plus, subduing by drugging does not lead to massive blood found in the house.

Drugs are commonly abused by psychopathic people. The drugs can add to delusions, give courage, and alcohol is often used to "calm" back down the offender after or during the situation. IMO, drugs are horrible, but not the root cause in these cases. The sociopathic tendancy is the cause.

Drugs/alcohol are a self medication that help one to "take the next step" or "ramp down" from a rage. Has been demonstrated in previous cases.... JMO
 
I personally think it went down way more crazy and violent than this. I really think this talk about the dog is MOOT. He was a small dog, and could have been done in with a kick or crush ((SORRY!)) I think we need to stop worrying about the dog cause he is prolly gone, and was disposed of with the rest (god bless them). This is not a hopeful situation. I would LOVE, LOVE, LOVE a hopeful situation, but I think this is not one of those. I think LE knows that and is not giving any info away. I do not think bodies found yet. They will have to use special tactics with MH to get it out of him.. now that the news reports he is talking, I am thinking he is coming off drugs/alcohol. Great time to question. Hope he caves soon.

This reminds me of a fictional movie I watched. It creeped me out more than most, because of how it could be so real, and not suspected. It was a hannibal series, but not the main character. I am talking about RED DRAGON. Somehow reminds me of how some of these serial killers work... scary.

I agree, hope mh finally tells LE what happened and where to find the three that are still missing, am sure their families and friends are desperate to find their loved ones! Does Ohio have the DP? If concrete evidence is stacking up, that may be a bargaining tool for LE to use with mh. Really hope mh never gets out of prison this time, graduating from arson to murder, as soon as he is officially off parole/probation? Something tells me this is not the first time he has done something to bridge the gap between starting fires and hurting people. Hopefully LE is comparing his DNA to other unsolved missing persons, assault and arson cases in Ohio and nearby.

OT, Manhunter, Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, Red Dragon = different directors, scary movies about a similar criminal mindset based on the author Thomas Harris' novels.
 
Hi, I'm new to WS, and I appreciate all the hard work everyone has done to bring all the information to the board.

Just a thought regarding the confusion of Stephanie's vehicles- is it possible she had a jeep at her house AND a truck at Tina's or vice versa? Several years ago I had a car for my usual driving back and forth to work, school, etc, but I also had a small pickup truck so that I could haul things from antique shops.
 
I agree, hope mh finally tells LE what happened and where to find the three that are still missing, am sure their families and friends are desperate to find their loved ones! Does Ohio have the DP? If concrete evidence is stacking up, that may be a bargaining tool for LE to use with mh. Really hope mh never gets out of prison this time, graduating from arson to murder, as soon as he is officially off parole/probation? Something tells me this is not the first time he has done something to bridge the gap between starting fires and hurting people. Hopefully LE is comparing his DNA to other unsolved missing persons, assault and arson cases in Ohio and nearby.

OT, Manhunter, Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, Red Dragon = different directors, scary movies about a similar criminal mindset based on the author Thomas Harris' novels.

Yes, I am familiar with Thomas Harris... read all his novels. Very great author, but scary stuff. If you watch all the movies (as I have), I found red dragon to be a bit different.... more (hate to say it) "typical" of how a serial killer thinks, and gets courage to begin. Ralph Fiennes was amazing in this role, IMO. (although he scared me crazy!!) I was afraid going home in the middle of the day after watching this. Realistic.
 
Hi, I'm new to WS, and I appreciate all the hard work everyone has done to bring all the information to the board.

Just a thought regarding the confusion of Stephanie's vehicles- is it possible she had a jeep at her house AND a truck at Tina's or vice versa? Several years ago I had a car for my usual driving back and forth to work, school, etc, but I also had a small pickup truck so that I could haul things from antique shops.

:Welcome-12-june: to Websleuths Banshee!
 
I agree, hope mh finally tells LE what happened and where to find the three that are still missing, am sure their families and friends are desperate to find their loved ones! Does Ohio have the DP? If concrete evidence is stacking up, that may be a bargaining tool for LE to use with mh. Really hope mh never gets out of prison this time, graduating from arson to murder, as soon as he is officially off parole/probation? Something tells me this is not the first time he has done something to bridge the gap between starting fires and hurting people. Hopefully LE is comparing his DNA to other unsolved missing persons, assault and arson cases in Ohio and nearby.

OT, Manhunter, Silence of the Lambs, Hannibal, Red Dragon = different directors, scary movies about a similar criminal mindset based on the author Thomas Harris' novels.

Yes, Ohio does have the death penalty.
 
Praise Allah, praise Jesus, praise Mohammed, praise WHOEVER!! Thank god or other higher power that Ohio has DP... now DA, let's put it to use, OK???? soon?

Oh, how I agree!! So VERY thankful for that! I live about 100 miles from this (guessing)
 
Hi, I'm new to WS, and I appreciate all the hard work everyone has done to bring all the information to the board.

Just a thought regarding the confusion of Stephanie's vehicles- is it possible she had a jeep at her house AND a truck at Tina's or vice versa? Several years ago I had a car for my usual driving back and forth to work, school, etc, but I also had a small pickup truck so that I could haul things from antique shops.

I would imagine anything is possible. I dont think there has been correct reporting as to where what vehicle was, when. Also, not many facts regarding Stephanie, at all.
 
This case is extremely odd so many unanswered questions.... Are they positive the friend was with them.. could she be involved and not actually a victim???? just thinking out loud.
 
I'll join you on the loony bin train. When I think the crimes cannot possibly get any stranger....they do. It's so scary.

I was noticing how alot is happening right now:
- this case
- jaw bone found in Aruba possibly human/related to Natalie Holloway
- searching Sauvie Island again for Kyron
- documents released verifying dismemberment of Zahra
- Chandra Levy trial
- Petit trial
- Elizabeth Smart trial

Seems like there was something else in the news yesterday and I was thinking what an unusual amount of 'missing/murdered persons' activity... Anyone else notice this?
 
I didn't know about Natalee. Thanks for the info.
 
morning all - i was so hoping to see that they had been found during the night :/
guess i will go get caught up. mh needs to start talking
 
Authorities say a man accused of kidnapping a 13-year-old girl found bound and gagged in a basement may have been watching her family beforehand. Knox County Sheriff David Barber says 30 year old Matthew J. Hoffman even sat nearby last week as police recovered the missing family's truck in central Ohio.


http://www.local12.com/news/local/s...ar-in-Court-Today/oK6s4Q56z0-3dTH09lL0eA.cspx



Foundation Park, a public park with a lake a few blocks from Hoffman's home, was closed Monday, initially by Mount Vernon police because an officer patrolling overnight had found what he thought was bloody clothing potentially related to the investigation, police Capt. George Hartz said. But tests did not find any human blood on the clothing, he said.
 
Welcome to WS.....great posts!!!

I've been wondering if the break-up with the gf triggered this kidnapping (and Lord knows what else). fran had posted a few links on the last thread and, I haven't had a chance to find them again yet, but the article stated the gf had a child. Wondering if he was possibly the father of the child???

You mentioned any other roommates besides the gf.....I'm wondering if, since he spent some time in prison, he had strong attachments to someone he served time with that may have been released recently and possibly he offered that person an invitation to "stay" with him? I realize that's going way out "on that limb" but you never know now days.

this is EXACTLY what i was wondering yesterday. i was thinking maybe sarah looks like his ex or vice-versa, kwim? what i mean is, is he a "type" person where all of his girlfriends look very much alike?
 
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