GUILTY OH - Two women & child killed, 13yo abducted, Apple Valley, 10 Nov 2010 #8

[Leila]

I agree that SS's Jeep was probably used, not only to take Sarah to his house, but then to dispose of bodies. He had to get the bodies from the house to a vehicle. With SS's Jeep parked in the garage, he could do this without being seen. Her Jeep would blend in more, as TH's F150 seemed like it would garner more attention, if driven to that remote spot where the tree was. Not sure why he would go back to the house and switch trucks though ... sounds risky, but it (the switch) was done overnight on Wednesday, after last check by Deputy. It could be (and probable) that MH was long gone by the time the deputy did the first check.

Your timing of 20 minutes into town sounds about right. Could get from her house to DQ in that amount of time, given no traffic issues (I'm saying this as a local).

Thanks CKay! I was estimating the time factor based on most people wouldn't work too far from home.

 

[peel]

that "knoxpages" forum is good reading.....informative....

somebody had a theory over there that perhaps Sarah was spared because she hide....but was ultimately found out...another poster was saying that the bodies were actually discovered by a young hunter...

it makes sense about the hunter....the Sheriff said that the perp told them where the bodies were but that tree was just one of hundreds and how did they know exactly where to go?......but a hunter, sitting up in a tree and noticing plastic bags stuffed down a tree????.....

could the Sheriff have confronted the perp by saying "we know where you put them" and then he made a statement confirming where the bodies where....unless the cops KNEW the exact tree in a forest, they would have still been looking.....of course was there any chance that the perp was sitting in the patrol car pointing out what tree?
we heard all the rumors about the bodies being discovered very early Wed. but we know the sheriff said they were found later on wednesday....."knowing" where they were is different than actually finding them.....

Ogle reiterated what the sheriff had said ...that there was extradorinary bravery ...on Sarah's part..both of them stated that.....why?.....
what did she do?......what was her bravery other than staying alive?.....did she herself alert the cops in some way?....did she herself leave a message for the cops maybe hidden in the house?....maybe a note?....did she kick over a phone and manage to dial the operator or even 911?

these are just questions I have...and musings.....I am anxious to hear this whole story and I do indeed think we'll see how Sarah was a true hero....as well as that friend from dq....

 

[darlin gal]

that "knoxpages" forum is good reading.....informative....

somebody had a theory over there that perhaps Sarah was spared because she hide....but was ultimately found out...another poster was saying that the bodies were actually discovered by a young hunter...

it makes sense about the hunter....the Sheriff said that the perp told them where the bodies were but that tree was just one of hundreds and how did they know exactly where to go?......but a hunter, sitting up in a tree and noticing plastic bags stuffed down a tree????.....

could the Sheriff have confronted the perp by saying "we know where you put them" and then he made a statement confirming where the bodies where....unless the cops KNEW the exact tree in a forest, they would have still been looking.....of course was there any chance that the perp was sitting in the patrol car pointing out what tree?
we heard all the rumors about the bodies being discovered very early Wed. but we know the sheriff said they were found later on wednesday....."knowing" where they were is different than actually finding them.....

Ogle reiterated what the sheriff had said ...that there was extradorinary bravery ...on Sarah's part..both of them stated that.....why?.....
what did she do?......what was her bravery other than staying alive?.....did she herself alert the cops in some way?....did she herself leave a message for the cops maybe hidden in the house?....maybe a note?....did she kick over a phone and manage to dial the operator or even 911?

these are just questions I have...and musings.....I am anxious to hear this whole story and I do indeed think we'll see how Sarah was a true hero....as well as that friend from dq....

I believe Sarah was spared as long as she was because she was the target. I believe it's a miracle she was rescued alive.

She is brave because she did what she had to do to not only survive but to also help investigators with filling in some of the pieces to the puzzle they worked very hard to solve. I am anxious also to hear how they were so sure she was in there. If she did alert in some way, that just adds to her bravery.

There were many rumors floating around about the bodies being found through out the search.

They had no reason and no benefit to lie about how the bodies were located with MH's help. He could have drew them a map. The tree was hollow and had a huge knot towards the bottom that you could clearly tell it was hollow. Perhaps they looked for hollow trees or a special marking that he told them about. Perhaps they did a fly over and were able to spot the tree from that vantage point. Perhaps there was tracking or drag marks in the grass/weeds that helped lead them there.

A hunter would not be THAT far up in a tree that he would have seen into that tree, IMO. The hollow part where he dropped them was at least 35 feet up.

http://www.abc6onyourside.com/shared/newsroom/top_stories/videos/wsyx_vid_7784.shtml

 

[Leila]

\
It's speculation on my part.. but I know 2 civilian LE officers who have does this over guilt and many more military servicemen/women who also have taken their own lives over a perceived "failure".

Hopefully the sheriff's dept. recognizes that the deputy that went out to do the wellness checks probably feels guilty that there wasn't something he could have done, and will provide him with counseling. Many police and fire dept. have counseling available for their personnel who witness terrible events.

 

[Filly]

The original CB quotes about the hollow tree are quoted early in the thread. CB asks if another poster had actually mentioned him to Nancy Grace in post #80. In post #100 CB posts a picture of himself.

Vic, I'm sorry I thought it was the earlier Topix posts.

Hey, if that's truly who he is well he doesn't look like a CB. Thanks for those post numbers.

 

[Java]

My grandmother, who was 94 when she died recently, decided that I was the one she needed to worry about, after my Mom (her only child) died.

If she called and I didn't answer, she'd try my cell phone. If I didn't hear that, she'd call the home phone again. Repeat in 15 minutes ... 30 minutes. Then my brother was called and my sister in law. Could they look out and see if my car was here? She had me dead in some ditch in her mind, when in reality, I might have been outside in the yard ... or shopping and forgot my phone.

Had she called 9-1-1 and it happened that I was in the shower when a deputy knocked, and then he broke in ... omg.

And I'm sure Grandma would have made it sound like the end of the earth, trust me.

Luckily she never called. But had she, the procedure would have been the same. Knock knock, no one answers? >>> leave and take note. Unless of course there was something out of the ordinary (probable cause).

I agree,
I blame nothing on the welfare checks, or the investigation, LE, neighbors, or otherwise.

Sometimes it is terribly unfortunate but, you just can’t have people investigated because they are weird,
Quiet, loners, or eat squirrels. You can’t just break into a home, because you are sent to check on someone.
Without good probably cause, and not showing up for work, isn’t good enough cause on the first check.
Any of those tactics could just as easily be “misused” as well.
They did do a follow up check, so they were doing their job.

No one in their right mind would of imagined this! And if there were no outward signs, or previous reports, or incidents, nothing out of place, the officer did his job. I do kinda feel MH was in the home at that time, or back and fourth between his home and Tina’s at that time though.

 

[Java]

There's something relevant about MH to me. We all ask how someone could be so awful? How can someone do such things to another human being? It's so utterly preverse we feel a need to know or understand.

The first thing I noticed about this guy in the few photographs we have seen of him is that he has Sanpaku Eyes. The three whites we call them. Of course this can be dismissed as pure bull. However there's something to it. We actually had a thread in the Jury room on it. People with these eyes included Diane Downes. I call them upsidedown eyes.

Here's a link to some of the information. Basically these people are prone to depression, anger, putting themselves at high risk. This MH did all that.


http://www.redicecreations.com/article.php?id=4762

Again, I am not saying this is a given. I learned about it years ago from a friend who did a clinical in a Psyche Hospital. From that point on I have always looked out for that.

Very interesting - Thank you
I have seen a picture of him though that did not show this condition.

 

[CKay]

I totally agree with you! Those poor cops have got to be beating themselves up and WORSE. I feel terrible for the ripple effect this case has, and will have. Believe it or not, since I have been on WS and discussed these cases with DH - he has sat up and taken notice of what CAN POSSIBLY be going on behind closed doors - and now understands the importance of seriously being in the here-and-now of some "mundane, run-of-the-mill middle of the afternoon on a sunny day" situation. We have grandkids.....what if he ignored "snooping" for another couple of minutes for someone else's family members because "no one answered the door and everything seemed quiet?". It is a nightmare of ours.

I agree,
I blame nothing on the welfare checks, or the investigation, LE, neighbors, or otherwise.

Sometimes it is terribly unfortunate but, you just can’t have people investigated because they are weird,
Quiet, loners, or eat squirrels. You can’t just break into a home, because you are sent to check on someone.
Without good probably cause, and not showing up for work, isn’t good enough cause on the first check.
Any of those tactics could just as easily be “misused” as well.
They did do a follow up check, so they were doing their job.

No one in their right mind would of imagined this! And if there were no outward signs, or previous reports, or incidents, nothing out of place, the officer did his job. I do kinda feel MH was in the home at that time, or back and fourth between his home and Tina’s at that time though.

Possibly. Possibly waiting on GB to get home *shiver*

 

[Java]

Possibly. Possibly waiting on GB to get home *shiver*

I think he knew GB was out of town? Somehow? Or at least knew his schedule somewhat. Or was planning to already be gone by the time GB arrived home?

Or that it didn’t matter to him either way? I’m not so sure he counted on Stephanie showing up? But she did and he did what he did. If GB had of shown up, he may of met the same fate?

If someone would of knocked on the door, he would of just not answered it, and hope they went away.
If they were able to go inside on their own accord. Such as had keys. I believe he would of killed them as well, if he could have.

 

[CKay]

I think he knew GB was out of town? Somehow? Or at least knew his schedule somewhat. Or was planning to already be gone by the time GB arrived home?

Or that it didn’t matter to him either way? I’m not so sure he counted on Stephanie showing up? But she did and he did what he did. If GB had of shown up, he may of met the same fate?

If someone would of knocked on the door, he would of just not answered it, and hope they went away.
If they were able to go inside on their own accord. Such as had keys. I believe he would of killed them as well, if he could have.

I don't know how he would have known that GB was going to be out of town. Knowing his schedule, maybe. If GB got off of work at 4 p.m. (think that's right?), he was probably usually home around 5-5:30, depending on traffic. I'll look up how far in a minute.

Probably didn't expect Stephanie, but she was tiny
If he was waiting on GB, it probably would have been an ambush, since I've read somewhere that he is ex-marine. But he might have already sized him up, and thought he was tougher. Who knows though.

I feel bad for GB. He was immediate suspect. He was with TH and the kids for 6 years, and that means since KH was 4-5 and SH was 7-8. He has to be feeling guilty, whether or not he should be. That was his home too (co-owner).

And nope, he could have been hidden and just not answered, *if* he was still there.

 

[CKay]

GB worked at the Target Distribution Center in West Jefferson, Ohio.

Since he spoke about getting a call when he was Marengo, that tells me he got there via I-71. I say this, because Google maps shows 3 different options for getting from 481 King Beach Drive to there.

So anyway, Google says it is 80 miles away, 1 hour and 37 minutes.

He didn't follow the map though, switching how he got to I-71, but that's how I get to I-71 also (the way he must have, since he went through Marengo).

Trip home would have traffic issues (busy) ... we're talking being near Columbus (big city) at that point. So he probably usually got home between 5:30 and 6.

 

[CKay]

I have once again updated the scanner thread <modsnip>:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=119680&page=19

 

[headndownstream]

Thanks Filly, I just learned something new............
great example:
The second type is yang sanpaku, white showing above the iris; here the iris sinks downward toward the bottom eyelid. This reveals a dangerous or violent character. Charles Manson has beautiful yang sanpaku eyes.

I'll never forget the Manson eyes!!!

IMHO this is silly, and, one of the victims had iris positioned like that, and I'm sure many people do. Maybe I didn't understand the article very well but I'd hate to read much into, or be judged myself by someone who read it, sorry.

MOO MOO MOO MOO

 

[Java]

CKay
I knew GB worked 80 miles away, I wonder if this was a fairly new job? Or if he had worked that far away for a large portion of the 6 year relationship? I believe his parents, friends, or something lived in the vicinity of his workplace. If he had worked at this location for a long period, it may of not been uncommon for him to have stayed over at parents or friends once in a while? 160 miles a day is a lot of driving.

I feel bad for him too. But everyone that is closest to the victims are considered suspects initially. GB was cleared quickly.

6 yrs. was a good portion of the children&#8217;s lives, I&#8217;m sure they were close to him, and he to them. It is said he will not be going back to the home. Of course! I hope he is able to help Sarah in anyway he can.

That home (Tina's) should be torn down. Really it should. Even re-modeled, I do not see how they could ever get anyone to move in there. Much less have to drive by it.
And it is said that MH&#8217;s home is 109 years old??? It didn&#8217;t look that old! But it should be leveled too.

I can only imagine purchasing Tina&#8217;s home ( or MH's) or renting as a new person in the community to find out the turn of events at a later date! I&#8217;d be more than a little upset!

 

[CKay]

CKay
I knew GB worked 80 miles away, I wonder if this was a fairly new job? Or if he had worked that far away for a large portion of the 6 year relationship? I believe his parents, friends, or something lived in the vicinity of his workplace. If he had worked at this location for a long period, it may of not been uncommon for him to have stayed over at parents or friends once in a while? 160 miles a day is a lot of driving.

I feel bad for him too. But everyone that is closest to the victims are considered suspects initially. GB was cleared quickly.

6 yrs. was a good portion of the children’s lives, I’m sure they were close to him, and he to them. It is said he will not be going back to the home. Of course! I hope he is able to help Sarah in anyway he can.

That home should be torn down. Really it should. Even re-modeled, I do not see how they could ever get anyone to move in there. Much less have to drive by it.
And it is said that MH’s home is 109 years old??? It didn’t look that old! But it should be leveled too.

I agree with everything you've said!!!
From reading topix the first days, I don't think GB and LM get along, but I hope LM can overcome any "issues" and do what's best for SM.

 

[Java]

And thank you too Ckay for all of your local input, and help!
And for keeping the scanner thread going and updated.

Much appreciated!

 

[Wondergirl]

Link​

 

[CKay]

And thank you too Ckay for all of your local input, and help!
And for keeping the scanner thread going and updated.

Much appreciated!

You're very welcome.

Honestly, thank you and everyone here who have followed this case closely and offered input and insight. You guys have no idea how it has helped me cope.

 

[SewingDeb]

A better picture of the hollow part of the tree:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/?id=11881780&q=Mount+Vernon+Ohio&p=1&st=1&sm=user

 

[newshound6]

Have any of you seen the short(like 1.5 min.) video on YouTube about the tree(obviously photos from someone close to the case)? It really shows how large,tall, and totally hollow that tree was.