Found Deceased OK - Aja Johnson, 7, Geronimo, 24 January 2010 - #3

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

You are just as important to the equation as the dog. I think the dogs can actually go longer than us a lot of the time, course we just choose to ignore that part and keep going, only worrying about the MP and our dog, not ourselves.

Absolutely the case, and there was definately an exhaustion part going on with our team- both mentally, emotionally, and physically. Actually, WS's was very helpful in those regards- especially in keeping our spirits up and in the flyers, everything- so thank you all- but we still pushed too hard. The pathetic thing is, we'd be laying down 'sleeping' and then someone would say something like, "Oh hell, none of us are sleeping even on rotation. Let's just go back out." And we did.

We're going to have to start bullying each other a little more into resting.
But FYI, the dogs are all fine.

Thanks.
JTSYS

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Hobbs threatened the lives of the children - he has a history of following through with his threats, no reason to not believe him. What we don't know is 'why' he threatened Tanya with taking the girls' lives - seems to me, Hobbs had Tanya in the corner of a cage - the kids will be dead if you don't do this and that - and you will be dead if you don't do this or that. She lived in a small, little, spot in OK, DFS were sent pics of Aja with bruises all over and failed to respond.

I would appreciate you telling me what her options were? Not what she 'should' have done, but what her options, for the circumstances were? TIA

That is exactly it, eyes4crime. Tonya did not see any options- and in fact- due to many circumstances beyond her OWN control, was possibly not able to see any at all. You and I and many others might. But she could not, and therefore did not. One of the posts I read mentioned something to the effect of "if their spouse ever belted their child, they'd be gone in a heartbeat." Well, yes- that person who posted was not Tonya or a battered woman. That person who posted, most likely would have found a safe alternative for their children. But we are not all made the same, nor are we all educated the same, nor do any of us share the unique situations that drive our internal lives in the direction they do.

Tonya is dead. Aja is dead. Hobbs is dead. One circle- all dead. Nothing to change there- only thing to change is the future.

JTSYS

 

[LogicalMinds]

Hobbs threatened the lives of the children - he has a history of following through with his threats, no reason to not believe him. What we don't know is 'why' he threatened Tanya with taking the girls' lives - seems to me, Hobbs had Tanya in the corner of a cage - the kids will be dead if you don't do this and that - and you will be dead if you don't do this or that. She lived in a small, little, spot in OK, DFS were sent pics of Aja with bruises all over and failed to respond.

I would appreciate you telling me what her options were? Not what she 'should' have done, but what her options, for the circumstances were? TIA

Hobbs should have been in prison for beating Aja....
I don't understand why he wasn't
If T was not able to press charges because of her own problems, battered woman syndrome, the state should have pressed charges
he beat little Aja...he should have been in prison


and beyond that....

Well .. regarding T, there was the option to simply NOT let her alone with Aja ever...why anyone would think that a few months would make her "safe" is beyond me. T , no matter what her own problems were, put Aja in harm's way before with Hobbs.

that was the court order...so it should have been followed...JMO

 

[joga]

this conversation is frustrating. IMO, YOU are responsible for your actions and the safety of your child. she had options, Aja's father had custody of her. so don't pick up your baby and take her near someone you KNOW is abusive. period. don't let your baby go if there is a court order saying not to. period. battered women are in terrible situation and i understand that and the thought of how and why so many women get into this situation is horrifying. i just can not accept that though as a release of fault in the situation. i don't understand how the boards are sometimes slamming the parents and then other times making excuses about how the parent had no options. i know this may sound harsh, but i'm so tired of reading about these stories....just my frustration rearing its ugly head i guess.

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Hobbs should have been in prison for beating Aja....
I don't understand why he wasn't
If T was not able to press charges because of her own problems, battered woman syndrome, the state should have pressed charges
he beat little Aja...he should have been in prison


and beyond that....

Well .. regarding T, there was the option to simply NOT let her alone with Aja ever...why anyone would think that a few months would make her "safe" is beyond me. T , no matter what her own problems were, put Aja in harm's way before with Hobbs.

that was the court order...so it should have been followed...JMO

LogicalMinds,
Yes- all of the above should have happened. That is logical. People who 'beat' 7 year olds, or 3 year olds, or who throw 6 month olds against walls to make them stop crying should be in prison.
But.
"Should have's..." get us NO WHERE because that is NOT what happens in real life. In real life, people fall through the cracks and the systems set up to protect them each and every day fail. Not only children, but adult men and women alike. Systems set up to protect THOSE VERY SYSTEMS MEANT TO PROTECT fail every single day!
What is the point of arguing over what we see all the time?

Educate, continue to learn, and teach the future instead. It is much more rewarding.

JTSYS

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

this conversation is frustrating. IMO, YOU are responsible for your actions and the safety of your child. she had options, Aja's father had custody of her. so don't pick up your baby and take her near someone you KNOW is abusive. period. don't let your baby go if there is a court order saying not to. period. battered women are in terrible situation and i understand that and the thought of how and why so many women get into this situation is horrifying. i just can not accept that though as a release of fault in the situation. i don't understand how the boards are sometimes slamming the parents and then other times making excuses about how the parent had no options. i know this may sound harsh, but i'm so tired of reading about these stories....just my frustration rearing its ugly head i guess.

joga,
It is frustrating for me too. We literally spent the equivalent of 45 average- 8 hour- work days on the ground trying to find this child.

This child is dead. Her mother is dead. Their murderer is dead. I have no sympathy for abusers, intimidators, or murderers of any type or class. I DO have sympathy for the abused and the neglected in this world of ALL types and classes.

I think I'll bow out of this conversation for now.

JTSYS

 

[LogicalMinds]

Well failing to call a spade a spade is not helping....

I have an entire thread on the errors of various social service agencies up in the "spotlight" forum

Maybe if people put more blame and were less forgiving there would be less of these tragedies. Meanwhile I just read of yet another scary case....a 6 year old "taken" by a dangerous "SRO">>> and now the info comes out that said SRO is the lover man of the girl's bio mom.

Over and over....so many of these cases could be prevented. As I often say, they don't even have to ask for pictures of many of these missing/abused/dead children...their state social services and/or court system already has them "on file"

 

[sarx]

This is all precisely why it is the parents like J that need the counseling, need to know to never trust the other parent, need to remember that they were granted full custody for a reason.
They are the only ones in the equation that can keep the children safe, they are the ones that need to support and to understand why they must stand their ground.

 

[Salem]

Gentle reminder - its okay to have different opinions, just post them respectfully please.

If you use the word "you" in your post, think TWICE before hitting the submit button. In such a discussion as this one, it would probably be better to reword your post to take out any "you's".

Thanks,

Salem

 

[joga]

joga,
It is frustrating for me too. We literally spent the equivalent of 45 average- 8 hour- work days on the ground trying to find this child.

This child is dead. Her mother is dead. Their murderer is dead. I have no sympathy for abusers, intimidators, or murderers of any type or class. I DO have sympathy for the abused and the neglected in this world of ALL types and classes.

I think I'll bow out of this conversation for now.

JTSYS

i thank you for your efforts, i think that's amazing. and please don't take my post as saying i don't feel sorry for abused people, because that is certainly not the case. types and classes i am also blind to, if you go back to the beginning of these threads, i was furious and felt that if Aja was a little rich girl, the search efforts from LE would have been massively different. i am sorry if i offended you and made you feel you need to leave the conversation, that was certainly not my intent. i just can't get on board with my feelings of sorrow for them being above my feelings of their duty to their child. JMO, of course!

 

[joga]

Gentle reminder - its okay to have different opinions, just post them respectfully please.

If you use the word "you" in your post, think TWICE before hitting the submit button. In such a discussion as this one, it would probably be better to reword your post to take out any "you's".

Thanks,

Salem

i didn't see your post about addressing someone specifically as "you" before i responded above. if it's out of line, i'm i can remove? i don't feel i was being disrepectful, but i understand the sensitivites right now. sorry!!!

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

i thank you for your efforts, i think that's amazing. and please don't take my post as saying i don't feel sorry for abused people, because that is certainly not the case. types and classes i am also blind to, if you go back to the beginning of these threads, i was furious and felt that if Aja was a little rich girl, the search efforts from LE would have been massively different. i am sorry if i offended you and made you feel you need to leave the conversation, that was certainly not my intent. i just can't get on board with my feelings of sorrow for them being above my feelings of their duty to their child. JMO, of course!

I understand, and no offense intended on my part either. I just want things to change, as I believe we all do.

Salem: if I misposted or was in anyway disrespectful, please let me know specifically and I will be more careful. We are still working through the emotions of Aja's case.

Still got to bow out, because I'm trying to find Oriah's pics of Shaniya's garden...

Thanks,
JTSYS

 

[eyes4crime]

joga,
It is frustrating for me too. We literally spent the equivalent of 45 average- 8 hour- work days on the ground trying to find this child.

This child is dead. Her mother is dead. Their murderer is dead. I have no sympathy for abusers, intimidators, or murderers of any type or class. I DO have sympathy for the abused and the neglected in this world of ALL types and classes.

I think I'll bow out of this conversation for now.

JTSYS

A heartfelt 'thank you' to you and Oriah for all your dedication and hard work. Having the ability to see that all situations are not created equal and that options to deal with a situation are limited by education, finances, status, family, extended family, resources, and life experience, lends itself to compassion and empathy.

Thank you so much for all your contributions to Planet Earth and for the compassion and nonjudgmental ways you go about helping justice to be served. :blowkiss:

 

[Oriah]

Thank you eyes, that really means a lot to us.

 

[darlin gal]

Newly released affidavits and search warrants show what tools investigators used while searching for an abducted 7-year-old girl and the man suspected of kidnapping her.Aja Johnson was missing for nine weeks between the time her mother was found slain in Geronimo on Jan. 24 and when she and her alleged kidnapper Lester Hobbs were found dead near Norman on March 29.According to new documents, investigators even took computers that belonged to members of Lester Hobbs' family.
(snip)

"Investigators seeking information about Aja's whereabouts took a number of items from the Geronimo property where Tonya Hobbs was killed. Search warrants said those items included a baggie with a leafy green substance, a hammer, an identification card with Lester Hobbs' name on it, cell phones and call logs, a box of hair coloring and 10 handwritten notes.Investigators said they took computers from family members because Hobbs didn't own a computer and often borrowed one from other people.

(snipped)
http://www.koco.com/news/23096611/detail.html

 

[Paulette]

Something is seriously wrong in Oklahoma when Lester beat Aja & no one did a thing about it. In Nevada, Washington and California, he would never have seen the light of day again. The worst place to lay a finger on another human being is Washington state. Lester probably wouldn't be able to bond out of jail - either it would be no bond or so high he couldn't meet it. Yes, he could have a jury trial, but all the jurists are in favor of the law. No, the Jose Baezs' couldn't talk them down. I was a jurist on a home invasion 5 counts & 2 special circunstances. He went away for a long time. If we had sat for his trial, he'd go straight from the defense chair to the jail.

This kind of justice is what we should be working towards. Straight across the board, no excuses. you touch another human being...you're toast. The Lesters of the world would think twice before they beat a child.

(I can't even imagine what I'd say to my son if he beat his child. I caught him talking harshly to him once and had to set him straight. "You must speak respectfully to him at all times, remember you're the adult." )

Aja's murder was so senseless. Were she my child, I'd have made it my mission in life to hunt down Lester and......

 

[sarx]

There is no doubt that Oklahoma has some serious problems with this, but it's not just them. It happens everywhere, and as a resident of California I can say it happens here far too often too. Can't speak for Washington, just my own state.

 

[Paulette]

There is no doubt that Oklahoma has some serious problems with this, but it's not just them. It happens everywhere, and as a resident of California I can say it happens here far too often too. Can't speak for Washington, just my own state.

It happens less when the punishment is great. That's the goal - to make the punishment so bad, so horrendous, the perp thinks twice. If you beat a child in California, you're going down & do hard time.

The descriptions I've read of Lester beating her are actually torture. Whoever is responsible for letting him get away with beating her should be brought to light. They must be punished, be it CPS or the police or her father. To flout the law and sweep her beating under the rug will do no one any good. I wonder if any Federal laws apply. Oklahoma probably receives some federal $$$.

A big deal needs to take place. Write the Governor, Congressman, Senator. Anyone that doesn't have a stake in hiding the truth.

 

[sarx]

I just wish the same were true for sex offenders, if the laws were stiffer John Gardener would have been rotting in a cell and Chelsea would still be alive.

The problem with great laws is it seems like then comes great lawyers.

 

[Oriah]

There is no doubt that Oklahoma has some serious problems with this, but it's not just them. It happens everywhere, and as a resident of California I can say it happens here far too often too. Can't speak for Washington, just my own state.

We've lived and worked all over the country, and in other countries as well; including those where punishment is so severe for certain types of crimes that communities believe in an eye for an eye, no trial necessary. It STILL happens.
Unfortunately, it happens everywhere in my experience.

Oriah