Found Deceased OK - Aja Johnson, 7, Geronimo, 24 January 2010 - #3

[Oriah]

oh no....I am not taking the blame off him at all...please dont get me wrong......he was a monster.....a volatile vicous man and yes it was HE who murdered her mother and is to blame for her death.......he was a ....BUT

she was weak.....she was not with him, so why go back that night....he had bashed her and her children and if she was so in love or under his charm why take the child that was not his, when she was safe with her dad and she could go and visit her without putting her near this man......no she was weak....she llllooovvveeedd him.....and obviously couldnt keep away....great lady go back but dont drag your children into harms way.....

you would be quite shocked at the position I do do for a living and the TRUTH that I have seen.......yes there are battered woman out there, I agree, and I feel so so sorry for them and applaud them when they get away and yes I know that some of the husbands/boyfriends etc still stalk them etc.......it would be terrible and i feel for them
but lets face it there are weak women out there who do put the man before their children.....my goodness you see it on here alot.....I have had one affect my life and she destroyed 4 kids because she could not cope without a man .....
that poor little boy...I think it was Marc Bookal was one such case......he had broken one childs arm, been in jail, abused this boy (burns I think) and yet mummy went back to him when he got out of jail and obviously turned a blind eye...is probably still with him...

lets face it...this is only one case.....I can think of countless others

these are the weak women I speak of.......and she was one.......there was no need for Aja to be there...she was safe........like I said before......threatening to hit your kids in the head with a hammer is bad.....that aint just normal being nasty stuff.........you dont have your kids hanging around that man...

One might be quite surprised what I do for a living as well- just thought I'd make note of that. Between JTSYS and I, I am fairly certain neither of us ever wants to see another 'destroyed-beyond-recognition' child again, much less hold one in our arms, as we both have.

But really, what I am slightly confused by is this course of topic on WS's. I thought we were all here with the hope of protecting children and other innocent victims from future tragedy?

I understand that emotions run high with cases like these, and that people have differing opinions about how best to 'discipline' the people that commit these types of crimes.... but people, tell me, where has our compassion for crime victims gone when all we can seem to do is argue over responsibility and where it began? It is a chicken or egg question.

Mods: should I create a new thread or perhaps a poll as to how people feel regarding crime and punishment, so as to try and keep on topic of the actual cases being discussed?
These sorts of discussions seem to frustrate a lot of people, and blur the lines of the actual case.

Oriah

 

[Oriah]

It happens less when the punishment is great. That's the goal - to make the punishment so bad, so horrendous, the perp thinks twice. If you beat a child in California, you're going down & do hard time.

The descriptions I've read of Lester beating her are actually torture. Whoever is responsible for letting him get away with beating her should be brought to light. They must be punished, be it CPS or the police or her father. To flout the law and sweep her beating under the rug will do no one any good. I wonder if any Federal laws apply. Oklahoma probably receives some federal $$$.

A big deal needs to take place. Write the Governor, Congressman, Senator. Anyone that doesn't have a stake in hiding the truth.

I'm all for letter writing campaigns; in fact we have an automatic email that goes out weekly to every governor, senator, feds, US Marshals, large PD's and Sheriffs depts, the DoD, the White House etc. However, I wish I could say that none of these people didn't "have a stake in hiding the truth."

I wish I could say that, but that has not been my experience. We do it anyway.

Oriah

 

[Oriah]

Give me a few and I'll go back and find it for you.

darlin gal, the actual ME report appears now to be password protected (?) unless it is something I am doing wrong on my end or my security is blocking it. I have it on my hard drive at home, but do not believe I can post it. Do you have access to the actual ME report? If so, you will find the marks noted underneath Aja's clothing, as well as the notation of the 'cuts' down to cervical spine on neck. It appears as two separate notations. And there is the notation (in different order) of there being no cuts on her clothing. Where did you find the article that contained the info on the ME report (the reported info.) I'm curious to see if it has been altered.
Thanks,

Oriah

 

[darlin gal]

Oriah:
ME Reports

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased OK-(Amber Alert) 7 yr. old Aja Johnson abducted from Geronimo 1/24/10 #3

Pathologist: Aja Johnson Likely Died After Having Throat Cut

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12274584

 

[JustToSeeYouSmile]

Oriah:
ME Reports

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased OK-(Amber Alert) 7 yr. old Aja Johnson abducted from Geronimo 1/24/10 #3

Pathologist: Aja Johnson Likely Died After Having Throat Cut

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=12274584

darlin gal, I'm posting on behalf of Oriah who was asking about that- she had to head out the door, as do I in a min. But I believe she was asking about the actual ME report- not the prelim that was released to the public in the media. The full autopsy report from the ME. What was released to the media is not the full report, and we cannot access it anymore.

I have a separate question that's easy enough to look up, but I don't have the time right now- does anyone know if the ME is elected, appointed, etc there? I should have looked it up before but we're wicked busy this week- thanks. Just curious.

JTSYS

 

[noexplanation]

Lester was a monster. I hope there is a special place in hell for him.

 

[sarx]

One might be quite surprised what I do for a living as well- just thought I'd make note of that. Between JTSYS and I, I am fairly certain neither of us ever wants to see another 'destroyed-beyond-recognition' child again, much less hold one in our arms, as we both have.

But really, what I am slightly confused by is this course of topic on WS's. I thought we were all here with the hope of protecting children and other innocent victims from future tragedy?

I understand that emotions run high with cases like these, and that people have differing opinions about how best to 'discipline' the people that commit these types of crimes.... but people, tell me, where has our compassion for crime victims gone when all we can seem to do is argue over responsibility and where it began? It is a chicken or egg question.

Mods: should I create a new thread or perhaps a poll as to how people feel regarding crime and punishment, so as to try and keep on topic of the actual cases being discussed?
These sorts of discussions seem to frustrate a lot of people, and blur the lines of the actual case.

Oriah

Thanks for this Oriah, I completely agree. This is a victim's forum, no? I think these conversations absolutely have there place and need to be discussed and something needs to be done, I'm just not sure this is the right venue.

I got caught up in it myself I think largely because I see Tonya as a victim in so many ways, as a battered woman, and ultimately as a murder victim.

On the flip side, what more is there really to talk about if we are going with the "for the victim" part, both are dead. The only thing left is a call to action on how to prevent this sort of things which will invariably lead us back to this exact discussion that is going on.

Well, guess I wasn't much help.

 

[darlin gal]

A court document says three sections of rope and two knives were found inside a car where the bodies of a missing 7-year girl and her stepfather were found. In a search warrant returned Friday to the Cleveland County court clerk's office, Norman police listed 15 items found when they searched a Toyota Paseo that was found March 29 in a rural, wooded area of Norman.


http://www.newschannel10.com/Global/story.asp?S=12284299

 

[sarx]

Thanks for that DG.
Again though, the original "no weapons found" just goes to go that you can't trust that what you are hearing is the truth.
Poor Aja.

 

[LogicalMinds]

Preventing this in future cases might start with education and help for the "good" parent
who should never give up their guard

It is sad to see battered women victims...and there should be help for them

but at some point when they bring their kids into it, when kids die because of the bad choices of their bio moms, is the mom a victim or a "volunteer"??

If Lester had only beat T and took Aja and killed her/him then what would we be saying??

I think it is important to be realistic and to see in these cases what could/should have been done

Family members need to speak out...cry out...and get media attention

The real crux of this is that Hobbs was NOT put in prison for beating Aja in the first place

He should have been locked away....then we would not be here and Aja would be alive

 

[Oriah]

A court document says three sections of rope and two knives were found inside a car where the bodies of a missing 7-year girl and her stepfather were found. In a search warrant returned Friday to the Cleveland County court clerk's office, Norman police listed 15 items found when they searched a Toyota Paseo that was found March 29 in a rural, wooded area of Norman.


http://www.newschannel10.com/Global/story.asp?S=12284299

Yes, I would like to see this court document and when it was entered. The vehicle was not removed immediately. There was speculation at first of ligature marks on Aja. But not noted on the ME report. Difficult for an ME to say with both one hand and one foot missing, and advanced decomp, imo.

 

[sarx]

Preventing this in future cases might start with education and help for the "good" parent
who should never give up their guard

It is sad to see battered women victims...and there should be help for them

but at some point when they bring their kids into it, when kids die because of the bad choices of their bio moms, is the mom a victim or a "volunteer"??

If Lester had only beat T and took Aja and killed her/him then what would we be saying??

I think it is important to be realistic and to see in these cases what could/should have been done

Family members need to speak out...cry out...and get media attention

The real crux of this is that Hobbs was NOT put in prison for beating Aja in the first place

He should have been locked away....then we would not be here and Aja would be alive

I'm pretty sure that someone being savagely beaten to death qualifies as a victim, regardless of the choices she made.

 

[eyes4crime]

Preventing this in future cases might start with education and help for the "good" parent
who should never give up their guard

It is sad to see battered women victims...and there should be help for them

but at some point when they bring their kids into it, when kids die because of the bad choices of their bio moms, is the mom a victim or a "volunteer"??

If Lester had only beat T and took Aja and killed her/him then what would we be saying??

I think it is important to be realistic and to see in these cases what could/should have been done

Family members need to speak out...cry out...and get media attention

The real crux of this is that Hobbs was NOT put in prison for beating Aja in the first place

He should have been locked away....then we would not be here and Aja would be alive

BBM (1st bolded sentence)

Kids die because mom is in one of two categories - victim or volunteer?

Please correct me if I'm wrong!

Assumption 1 - ALL moms should make good decisions regardless of life circumstances, and if they don't it's an intentional choice to kill their child.

Assumption 2 - all moms are created equal!

Assumption 3 - all moms are in the category of Mother Teresa, and therefore, have no reason to make a poor choice!

Assumption 4 - all moms are educated!

Assumption 5 - all moms should be above the manipulation of psychopaths, sex offenders, and con artists

Assumption 6 - all moms go through live healthy and never compromise their thinking

Assumption 7 - all moms are God like in nature and will stay that way their entire life.

Assumption 8 - human conditions such as addiction, cancer, brain tumors, does not affect a REAL mom.

Bad choices are intentional and made with the intent to kill off the child? My heart goes out to moms everywhere - such an impossible standard to keep and such harsh judgment. Woah is me! moo

 

[kbl8201]

aja is the real victim. thats the end of story for me.

 

[Oriah]

aja is the real victim. thats the end of story for me.

Me as well.

 

[RoseWhite]

aja is the real victim. thats the end of story for me.

I agree.

Oh, if only time could be reversed or actions could be taken back. Aja walks through my mind so many times during the day and the sorrow of not being able to change what happened is unbearable. I think the comments to go forward and be a change for prevention is the only positive thing we can do.

 

[BuzzieCat]

So sorry to hear the case ended this way. The only surprise to me is that that slimeball didn't try to keep on living his scummy life some way after his hideous crimes.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

snipped for space


For those that do not feel they understand battered womens syndrome (and I certainly cannot claim to, as I am a man) I suggest you think of these women who put their children in harms way as taller, heavier, and older versions of what an abused child will do when presented with the choice of being returned to their abusive parent(s) or "going somewhere safe" like foster care or an adoptive home. They always want to go home for the very reason that they should NOT: they are TERRORIZED. We do not judge them, do we? Because they are children, we do not judge their inability to comprehend their own risk of danger to themselves and others because of the decisions they make, and so we (hopefully) intervene via the court system to try and help save them from harm.

Battered women are no different. They do what they do, because they are terrorized beyond their own ability to protect even themselves.
Why one would think they could protect anything else, is beyond me. If you are so locked in the shell of terror that you cannot see outside of your own fear, you are completely unable to protect anything else in your care.

JTSYS

I do feel I understand battered women's syndrome to at least some degree. And I completely understand that it is human nature, especially in children, to choose the known over the unknown, even if the known entails abuse.

And I could accept that Tonya was too terrorized to protect herself, much less Aja, if they all lived in the same home. But they didn't. Tonya lived 100 miles from Hobbs, and Aja didn't live with her. So how could he be terrorizing her from such a distance, to the extent of compelling her to lie about where she was taking Aja?

Moreover, the comparison you make with abused children is incongruent because Tonya did comprehend the danger to herself and Aja, hence the application for the restraining order.

Please know I am not attacking your views or arguing for its own sake. I am asking these questions because I am really trying to grasp Tonya's thinking and I just don't. I know enough about battered women's syndrome to understand, for example, the "I deserved the beating because I didn't get the house clean enough" warped logic or the "He promised never to do it again and everything will be all right now!" over and over again, despite historical proof to the contrary, warped logic.

But I just cannot come up with any logic, however warped, to explain Tonya's putting Aja in Hobbs' presence. And for reasons that continue to escape me, I am finding it difficult to let go of this case until I do.

 

[sarx]

Logic doesn't work here, that's the first and foremost thing. If you can let go of logic, then you can understand what she was thinking. (Good luck with that btw, cuz most of us don't work that way!)

 

[eyes4crime]

I do feel I understand battered women's syndrome to at least some degree. And I completely understand that it is human nature, especially in children, to choose the known over the unknown, even if the known entails abuse.

And I could accept that Tonya was too terrorized to protect herself, much less Aja, if they all lived in the same home. But they didn't. Tonya lived 100 miles from Hobbs, and Aja didn't live with her. So how could he be terrorizing her from such a distance, to the extent of compelling her to lie about where she was taking Aja?

Moreover, the comparison you make with abused children is incongruent because Tonya did comprehend the danger to herself and Aja, hence the application for the restraining order.

Please know I am not attacking your views or arguing for its own sake. I am asking these questions because I am really trying to grasp Tonya's thinking and I just don't. I know enough about battered women's syndrome to understand, for example, the "I deserved the beating because I didn't get the house clean enough" warped logic or the "He promised never to do it again and everything will be all right now!" over and over again, despite historical proof to the contrary, warped logic.

But I just cannot come up with any logic, however warped, to explain Tonya's putting Aja in Hobbs' presence. And for reasons that continue to escape me, I am finding it difficult to let go of this case until I do.

thanks for your input Izzy - Tanya was about 2 hours away (I didn't know that) from Hobbs for about a month. Pretty sure Hobbs moved out and into a camper on his sister's property when Dad got custody of Aja in December. What Tanya was told regarding a birthday party, we may never know. Could Hobbs have kept terrorizing Tanya for the month he moved on his sister's property? Do you think Tanya felt her and Aja were safe from Hobbs? mho

ETA: Please keep in mind another woman Hobbs was married to got a restraining order against him - divorced and 4 years later needed to get another RS. He seems relentless. moo