OK OK - Jamison Family: Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned 08 Oct 2009 - #12

[Hatfield]

http://www.kjrh.com/news/problem-so...s-more-than-1000-families-waiting-for-answers

Thanks to you and others for the links provided.

That is exactly the type of thing I remember reading about. The people need to band together and hire a lawyer to force some drastic changes. I dont like to hear about lawsuits but sometimes it is the only way to force changes to happen.

Can you imagine if you had to wait 1 year or more for a life insurance claim to get processed because you needed the final ME report that declared how the person died. Some insurance policies are written in a way that pays more if people die a certain way. It is these types of things that people have to wait more than a year to get their results.

It seems if a lawsuit was ever won then the plaintiffs could even claim they want interest on the money that they would have received if it would have been done quicker. They would probably have to establish what is a reasonable average time a ME report should be processed. People are generally patient up to a point. But these kinds of delays are totally ridiculous.

 

[justagirl247]

This system as well as so many others a flawed to an extreme extent not just in ok but in so many states ... I recently heard of a missing persons case where the missing person had actually been found years sooner but bc a couple of numbers or information was put into namus or the doe network ( not sure which it was) wrong the missing person was unidentified for years ... Makes me wonder how many other cases are this way I know this is a little off topic and sorry for that but I guess the point I'm trying to make is so many things are messed up on so many levels when it comes to these matters that something really needs to change I mean the ppl they are dealing with in these situations are usually going threw the worst times in their lives already due to what's going on you think a little more concern and compassion would be involved

 

[Krieger2]

Your theory really makes the most sense to me. My previous theory was very similar except I had thought it was people that had just used the land around there as their own like hunting and/or meth making and they kind of felt they owned it because they had used it for many years.

I had never considered it maybe something more along the lines of what you describe where someone actually may have owned a lot of the land around there and was trying to keep it that way.

The position of their vehicle does seem to indicate they were confronted and maybe blocked in. I do agree with you that since the Jamisons had a weapon of their own, that if someone tried to just threaten them, then the situation could have easily escalated and got out of hand where they were killed instead of just threatened. We already know that Mrs. Jamison had once pulled a gun on a person that would not leave her home, so she is the type to stand up for themselves and if they were being intimidated by someone, she may have already been out of vehicle and tried to get to her weapon which may have been on her person at the time. The other folks may have seen her reaching for it and it escalated and maybe the child and Mr. was executed to prevent witnesses.

I've always felt the vehicle area was part of what happened. I think things were staged somewhat in their vehicle because some of the items should have been on their person. I think the perp(s) moved the bodies to that 2nd location where they were found, but I do think they may have been shot near the vehicle area or maybe just 1 shot there. Blood and other trace evidence would be very difficult to find after all that time near the vehicle and especially if it was not right in the road.

The perp(s) would have had to been very familiar with the land to know where to put the bodies. If they had an ATV with them, they could probably drive right to the spot where bodies were found. Not sure if a full size vehicle would have been able to make the trek there but if so, then maybe even a vehicle moved them to 2nd spot.

From what I have heard of Sherilynn, I don't think she would have any problem waving a gun around. As far as a local land owner being possessive, if they had thought that the rocks in the back of the Jamison's truck came from a easement on their property they would consider violence as an appropriate response. Some of those people are that irrational. I would like to know where the rocks came from. I do not think that they would carry them all the way from Eufaula. If they had innocently picked them up on the side of the road it could have led to a confrontation. Someone up there either knows who was involved or has really good idea, but I do not think they will talk until there is some reward money. After all with a completely apathetic local LE, who would risk there life to get involved with out some incentive?

 

[little726]

The problem with this is didnt we hear the witness talk about bullet holes in back of the head. If all 3 were shot in back of head, I cant see where suicide would be possible. I suppose we need a medical examiner report to confirm the wounds found on the skulls.

Why is nothing happening fast in the investigation? Something is wrong with that. Do local LE know the landowners?
Something doesnt seem right with how this case has been treated.

I agree, Hatfield! Not even two females, one male!

 

[watcher9]

http://www.kjrh.com/news/problem-so...s-more-than-1000-families-waiting-for-answers

Did LE send the Jamison remains directly to TX or did they send them via OK?
From the video, I am beginning to wonder if some of their cases are just laying around OK and haven't been forwarded to TX yet.

I have read that there is a backlog nationwide of autopsies, DNA testing, rape kits, etc and that many cases have been waiting for years to be resolved. I am not sure if the push at one time to clear out most of these cases ever resolved the problem or not. Are there that many more cases now than ever before needing to go under a microscope to be solved?

 

[Hatfield]

Did LE send the Jamison remains directly to TX or did they send them via OK?
From the video, I am beginning to wonder if some of their cases are just laying around OK and haven't been forwarded to TX yet.

I have read that there is a backlog nationwide of autopsies, DNA testing, rape kits, etc and that many cases have been waiting for years to be resolved. I am not sure if the push at one time to clear out most of these cases ever resolved the problem or not. Are there that many more cases now than ever before needing to go under a microscope to be solved?

I cant answer most of these but I think I have a good idea on the last one.

JMO
The advent of DNA testing and DNA being used in a lot of cases now I believe has contributed. It is my understanding that DNA testing is very involved and it takes many days to do the actual testing. I think it depends on the type of DNA testing being done too as I have heard there are different ways it can be conducted (basic quick + dirty to like match race or something VS full-blown person ID). If a full blown DNA test is needed then I think the testing procedures take a very long time.

We have all seen those multiple DNA test tubes placed in racks. I am thinking it takes days to have to wait for the solution to filtrate out or something like that. Once a certain number of days has passed then the lab tech person can go on to step 2, 3, 4, etc.

So I am just guessing that DNA testing being requested and being used in a lot of cases now is what may have made a drastic increase in the backlog. And on top of that I think the technology was new at first and it took a long time for labs to learn how to do the testing and be acredited to be able to do DNA testing themselves without having to send it off somewhere.

It makes one wonder how many cases just sit in place A while they wait after sending off a test to be conducted at place B. And like you mentioned....Did they maybe forget to even send it off to place B. Uggggggg

 

[watcher9]

I cant answer most of these but I think I have a good idea on the last one.

JMO
The advent of DNA testing and DNA being used in a lot of cases now I believe has contributed. It is my understanding that DNA testing is very involved and it takes many days to do the actual testing. I think it depends on the type of DNA testing being done too as I have heard there are different ways it can be conducted (basic quick + dirty to like match race or something VS full-blown person ID). If a full blown DNA test is needed then I think the testing procedures take a very long time.

We have all seen those multiple DNA test tubes placed in racks. I am thinking it takes days to have to wait for the solution to filtrate out or something like that. Once a certain number of days has passed then the lab tech person can go on to step 2, 3, 4, etc.

So I am just guessing that DNA testing being requested and being used in a lot of cases now is what may have made a drastic increase in the backlog. And on top of that I think the technology was new at first and it took a long time for labs to learn how to do the testing and be acredited to be able to do DNA testing themselves without having to send it off somewhere.

It makes one wonder how many cases just sit in place A while they wait after sending off a test to be conducted at place B. And like you mentioned....Did they maybe forget to even send it off to place B. Uggggggg

Thanks for explaining this.
I agree that the advent of DNA testing has caused the severe backlog. DNA testing answers a lot of questions and has solved many crimes since it was perfected.

I also believe that some cases may be bottlenecking many others that could be cleared quickly. There may be many cases that don't even need DNA testing to clear them out. Maybe they could use some of the triage type techniques used by battlefield medics in determining which type of testing needs a fast track, etc.? Even our auto repair shop has added a "fast lane" to clear out vehicles only needed an oil change, etc. while other vehicles were getting extra or major work done.

It just seems like it's taking so long to even identify the remains that we assume to be the Jamisons. I look at the McStay family case and how fast they were identified, including cause of death. Maybe the fact that their remains were buried intact, maybe with their clothes, whereas the Jamisons remains were scattered out in the open with skulls and only some bones and few bits of clothing were recovered?

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

perhaps they thought they could sleep rough through the night and find help in the morning, not realizing they could die of hypothermia. . . Being found on their stomachs, it looks like they just fell asleep and never woke up. I'm more inclined to think they died of exposure, not murder.

I believed very strongly in the got lost/died of exposure theory for a long time. No doubt I drove everyone here crazy with multiple posts trying to correct misperceptions and explaining how relatively easy it is to succumb to hypothermia, even at temperatures well above freezing, especially if it is also windy or wet.

However, since the article about the position of the bodies and the hole in a skull, I think it's most likely a homicide. All three being found lying face down is bizarre and seems like a deliberate placement of the bodies, probably after death. When people die of hypothermia, they are usually found curled into a fetal position.

A murder-suicide is also possible considering their positions, if the killer arranged the first two bodies face down, and then lay face down as well and shot him/herself in that position. I don't know how unusual such a scenario would be, though, and there wasn't a mention of a gun being found at the scene.

 

[Balor51]

Bump. Discovery ID is running their Disappeared episode right now.

 

[TTF14]

Bump. Discovery ID is running their Disappeared episode right now.

I just saw it, and it was the first I'd ever heard of this family. So, their bodies were finally found and identified, but no official cause of death yet, or suspects?

 

[watcher9]

I just saw it, and it was the first I'd ever heard of this family. So, their bodies were finally found and identified, but no official cause of death yet, or suspects?

Some remains have been found, but not officially identified yet.
According to this article, it looks like the investigation is on hold until the reports come back. More info released by LE is near the bottom of this article.

The state medical examiner's office has not identified the remains found earlier in the month and it could be weeks or even months before they're able to do so, officials said.

Latimer County Sheriff Jesse James, who was a police officer in nearby Wilburton when the Jamisons went missing, said his investigators are waiting to hear from the state medical examiner's office before devoting further resources to the case.

http://newsok.com/jamison-family-wa...anishing-records-show/article/3909260/?page=2

 

[jennylynn]

A few thoughts on this:

1. Here in the South deer hunting is a religion. Men, women and children hunt. After there is a missing/abducted LE specifically reaches out asking hunters to BOLO when in the woods.
2. We all live in the same world where someone who loves their family does something so foreign and horrifying that we cannot grasp it nor explain it.
3. As distasteful as it is, these bodies have been in the forest for over 3 years now. There is a very simple explanation as to no weapon. Instant of death finger freezes around trigger, and unfortunately animal activity. Possibly a weapon may never to be recovered.
4. It could have been as simple as realizing they dropped a pair of sunglasses, leaving the truck to go back to get them quick, gun taken as protection walking around, getting turned around, lost, argument starts up, and someone snaps.

Just thoughts!:twocents:

 

[PS8800]

Thanks for explaining this.
I agree that the advent of DNA testing has caused the severe backlog. DNA testing answers a lot of questions and has solved many crimes since it was perfected.

I also believe that some cases may be bottlenecking many others that could be cleared quickly. There may be many cases that don't even need DNA testing to clear them out. Maybe they could use some of the triage type techniques used by battlefield medics in determining which type of testing needs a fast track, etc.? Even our auto repair shop has added a "fast lane" to clear out vehicles only needed an oil change, etc. while other vehicles were getting extra or major work done.

It just seems like it's taking so long to even identify the remains that we assume to be the Jamisons. I look at the McStay family case and how fast they were identified, including cause of death. Maybe the fact that their remains were buried intact, maybe with their clothes, whereas the Jamisons remains were scattered out in the open with skulls and only some bones and few bits of clothing were recovered?

Im usually on this site hanging around the McStay family section and I just read your statement, can I ask where you have read or heard that they have COD?

 

[ZooSleuth]

Im usually on this site hanging around the McStay family section and I just read your statement, can I ask where you have read or heard that they have COD?

I bet instead of COD he meant that they declared the deaths as homicides in the McStay case.

 

[watcher9]

I bet instead of COD he meant that they declared the deaths as homicides in the McStay case.

Thanks.
That's exactly what I meant.

 

[poppygirl]

How long has it been now since they found the remains?

ETA: coming up on 4 months now. Unbelievable.

 

[watcher9]

How long has it been now since they found the remains?

ETA: coming up on 4 months now. Unbelievable.

I would think by now they would have at least come out with positive IDs.

 

[annie mae]

As I understand from a newspaper article in one of the county papers, the bodies had no teeth? I will double ck but I was shocked, why no teeth? That was one reason for the delay in ID. They, ???, turned to the family for DNA. Also, why were the bodies not located on several "looks" that LE provided plus other agencies? Just thoughts..............

 

[watcher9]

I seem to remember something about that, but when I just did some searching, I found this which sounds like there were teeth found.

The anthropologist will work with an odontologist and the forensic pathologist to try to make a positive identification using dental records, Elliott said.

http://newsok.com/anthropologist-to-examine-latimer-county-skeletal-remains/article/3905955

 

[snowleopard]

I have been lurking here off and on for a while...I'm wondering if the teeth were removed by the perp, or came out some other way. From following other cases, teeth tend to stay with the skull quite a while, so I'm hoping its the former...that might indicate a perp familiar to the Jamisons...easier for LE to link...let's hope.