OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[J. J. in Phila]

Temp did not fall below 50 until 5 am. on the 9th.With 20 mph wind it would have been about 44.

It will be slightly colder where they were found, and people can suffer from hypothermia in the 50's, especially if they are wet. I would not rule it out at this point.

 

[TooCurious]

My first prior would be to get out of the woods.

I think he'd need more than an outdoors to try to light a fire with that much rain.

http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

It was probably in the low 50's to high 40's in the early morning hours. Wind is also an issue, with most hours it being 10-20 MPH, and gusts ranging from 20-35 MPH. The didn't have coats. I would not rule out exposure.

Starting the fire should happen before dark, not much rain. There are many ways to start a fire in the rain, dry kindling is everywhere, especially in dense cover where they were found. I definitely am not ruling out exposure but there situation on the night of the eighth was survival.

 

[TooCurious]

The footprints are still a problem, the phone call on the 12th, and the dog....explain two of these I am on board with exposure. Hard to reconcile this in my head.

 

[missingnotforgotten]

The footprints are still a problem, the phone call on the 12th, and the dog....explain two of these I am on board with exposure. Hard to reconcile this in my head.

I agree about the phone and footprints. I'm new to this thread and was reading old posts the past few days. I came across one by mtrooper (sp?) that was talking about the dog ate hotdogs and drank water from a cooler, or something like that, and ate her own feces. I get the impression this poster is someone working in the case but I don't know in what capacity. I think it was a verified SAR member. Can someone help me out here? I wish I could remember which page that was on. I'm having a hard time to find it again by searching.

 

[TooCurious]

Could you post the coordinates to the house your speaking of. I can't find it. Or maybe mark it on a map and link it? Thank you.

Look north of where the bodies were found. There is a pond right beside it and a little to the west of it an old building with tin roof.

 

[Mitch1]

Is it me or is that legal pad with coordinates on it in pristine condition? I would think a dog left starving in a vehicle for a week would have chewed up the seats and clawed all over the windows but the photos of the truck interior don't seem to show any of this. AM I MISSING SOMETHING HERE??? Seriously, I'm curious for feedback on this. To me it looks like a family that has gone into a WPP? They seemed very concerned for their safety-video cameras around the home, kept others at a distance, pulled child out of school, even told some they were going off the grid... And whadaya know -they did! Any thoughts on this theory of mine?

 

[missingnotforgotten]

For TooCurious here is the post by mtrooper about the dog surviving:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #8
"Definitely just a reenactment! They had a soft sided water cooler in the truck, it was unzipped per the people who were standing there while the deputy went through the truck that night. It had water in it, but the kind that comes after the ice in the cooler melts. There was also a partial case of walkway brand water in the bed of the truck. I will see about getting the FBI to print maizey and the empty hot dog wrapper. But I have first hand knowledge that most dogs do not care if they break the little re-sealable strip on the pack of hotdogs. Mine prefer the plastic wrap and all. I have left a pack of hotdogs on the counter, walked out to start the grill, and came back to no evidence that the hotdogs even existed. Well until the next day atleast.

The people who were there when the window was broken said as soon as the dog got out of the truck it pooped, then turned right back around and ate it. Hotdog wrapper is per star, I will see if I can confirm with someone who was actually there when they were going through the truck."

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Starting the fire should happen before dark, not much rain. There are many ways to start a fire in the rain, dry kindling is everywhere, especially in dense cover where they were found. I definitely am not ruling out exposure but there situation on the night of the eighth was survival.

That kind assumes they had a good idea of what they were doing. It was not cold before sunset. They might have realized the weather would end up being so bad; it dropped about 20 degrees by midnight.

I don't think this is most likely possibility, but, with what little we have, it is at least a good possibility.

 

[OkieGranny]

I'm up to page 22 of Thread #9 in my catch-up reading on this case, and some of the issues being discussed re: LE are definitely thought-provoking.

This particular photo caught my eye earlier...

... and, uh, I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here. The points extending outward from the truck location, are they related to searches? Because I see they point in just about every direction, except toward Smokestack Hollow.

I'm not saying this means anything; I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me the significance of the points.

 

[TooCurious]

For TooCurious here is the post by mtrooper about the dog surviving:

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #8
"Definitely just a reenactment! They had a soft sided water cooler in the truck, it was unzipped per the people who were standing there while the deputy went through the truck that night. It had water in it, but the kind that comes after the ice in the cooler melts. There was also a partial case of walkway brand water in the bed of the truck. I will see about getting the FBI to print maizey and the empty hot dog wrapper. But I have first hand knowledge that most dogs do not care if they break the little re-sealable strip on the pack of hotdogs. Mine prefer the plastic wrap and all. I have left a pack of hotdogs on the counter, walked out to start the grill, and came back to no evidence that the hotdogs even existed. Well until the next day atleast.

The people who were there when the window was broken said as soon as the dog got out of the truck it pooped, then turned right back around and ate it. Hotdog wrapper is per star, I will see if I can confirm with someone who was actually there when they were going through the truck."

Thanks for the repost. Phone call was made on the 12th, the dog could also have been exhibiting that behavior after 4 days of starving...I think. If any faith can be put into the phone call, I think foul play is a probality. If they did get 4" of rain in one period, I also think there is a fair arguement that those tracks were made after the eight. Which means they survived the storm and cold, and I think foul play is a probabilty here too.

 

[J. J. in Phila]

I'm up to page 22 of Thread #9 in my catch-up reading on this case, and some of the issues being discussed re: LE are definitely thought-provoking.

This particular photo caught my eye earlier...

... and, uh, I'm not really sure what I'm looking at here. The points extending outward from the truck location, are they related to searches? Because I see they point in just about every direction, except toward Smokestack Hollow.

I'm not saying this means anything; I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me the significance of the points.

Cell towers? It looks like they are going to the high points in the area.

 

[OkieGranny]

Cell towers? It looks like they are going to the high points in the area.

Well, actually, there seems to be a distinct lack of cell towers on Panola Mountain. No AT&T, no Sprint, no T-Mobile, no Verizon:

http://www.cellreception.com/

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Well, actually, there seems to be a distinct lack of cell towers on Panola Mountain. No AT&T, no Sprint, no T-Mobile, no Verizon:

http://www.cellreception.com/

I saw what sure looked like one in the Google Earth photos. From what I can tell, those spots seem to be at the high points. That is the only thing I can figure, something with cell coverage.

 

[SeekingJana]

Both Jamison adults were significantly below normal body weight, according to the Missing poster which was shown on I.D.

BOBBY- 6' 3'' tall
weight 170 ( marginally low normal weight for height)

SHERILYN- 5' 7'' tall
weight 105 ( 30 pounds under normal weight for height).

They wouldn't have normal " reserves" of body fat or muscle tissue and also would not have insulation from the cold that comes with adipose tissue being present in normal weight adults. However, if they maintained a very low caloric intake normally, then their bodies might be used to near- starvation.

I hate to say it, but their low body weights might be a fairly good indicator of drug use. I also thought it was VERY strange that their former boarder's prescription bottle was in their truck. It seems like maybe they were scoring Rx drugs from him... not sure, of course.

 

[SeekingJana]

I think they were in a chronic state of confusion and often, could not tell good people from bad people.

At this time, after looking at all factors related to Pinola Mountain, I think they got lost and during a search for help, either knocked on the door of a reclusive survivalist, or a meth. lab.

Neither of the 2 would bother plundering the truck for money, belongings, etc. if they found or saw the truck. Both would want them out of the way as fast as possible.

I know of a recent case in my hometown where 2 brothers got lost on a dead end road one night while drinking and riding around after college graduation. The area they were in is known to me quite well, as it is waterfront property. Nice people live in lovely homes on the river.

However, one or two blocks away from the loveliness is the cul de sac with the paranoid vigilante trailer dweller. He was instantly convinced that the brothers were out to get him, and he fired shots, killing the driver, causing the vehicle to crash and the brother to also perish.

They were kids, good kids, who got lost by taking one wrong turn. No words were exchanged, but I can certainly see Sherilyn mouthing off to whomever she might have encountered who was " hostile". It would be a disaster for the family. The snub nosed .22 they showed would be no match for a higher caliber weapon or even martial arts. SOME survivalists know how to do things which I can't even imagine humans doing to others.
It takes special evil to kill a 6 year old little girl.
JMO, almost all is hypothesis, but the area looked like a survivalist's haven. Ditto for meth. lab. ( ironically).

 

[OkieGranny]

Kinda sorta related to why I was asking about the pic above. Posted by Oriah on February 3, 2012:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=150472&page=25

Anyway, I went back through some of the past search areas, and realized how much I was concerned about Smokestack Hollow. (That would be N35.0301/W95.2283 for you GPS-ers...)

Thoughts anyone?

And the reason for my interest in the Smokestack Hollow area is because I don't think it was effectively cleared. The water level depends a lot on the weather- rain/snow melt/time of year etc.

Smokestack actually runs sort of perpendicular to where the truck was found- and it's about a mile out, but there are a lot of elevation changes, and it's very 'curvy' so factor that in. There is also a gas well/drill line that runs just E of there- as well as one that runs W.

That part of Smokestack is a muddy mess of...everything. Mud, water, trash. I mean- things like empty bottles, wrappers etc. Not 'trashed'- but definately there is/are humans who have been there. Unless a bear or two dragged a trash bag down (always a possibility, I guess.)

 

[little726]

Property records for Latimer county:

http://latimer.okcountytreasurers.com/

Property records for Pittsburg county:

http://pittsburg.okcountytreasurers.com/

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Apparently there are some bear in the area: http://www.wildlifedepartment.com/hunting/bearresults.htm

 

[J. J. in Phila]

Both Jamison adults were significantly below normal body weight, according to the Missing poster which was shown on I.D.

BOBBY- 6' 3'' tall
weight 170 ( marginally low normal weight for height)

SHERILYN- 5' 7'' tall
weight 105 ( 30 pounds under normal weight for height).

They wouldn't have normal " reserves" of body fat or muscle tissue and also would not have insulation from the cold that comes with adipose tissue being present in normal weight adults. However, if they maintained a very low caloric intake normally, then their bodies might be used to near- starvation.

I hate to say it, but their low body weights might be a fairly good indicator of drug use. I also thought it was VERY strange that their former boarder's prescription bottle was in their truck. It seems like maybe they were scoring Rx drugs from him... not sure, of course.

I'm not convinced of drug abuse, but this would tie in to hypothermia. We don't know of any food with them. Walking would burn up calories. That would have created difficulties with their core temperatures.

 

[nevereverever]

Lower than normal body weight can stem from a number of things, including mental illness. Again, I don't really see any evidence of drug use. Honestly, a thorough search of their house turned up not only no illegal drugs, but no paraphernalia. That, to me, points strongly away from drug abuse going on with the Jamisons.

Their low body weights could definitely have made it more difficult to survive in a cold environment, though.