OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs and Dog Found Abandoned, 8 Oct 2009 - #11

[wfgodot]

Well, my goodness, wfgodot, have you forgotten what you've learned about our estimable SOs here in Oklahoma?

I do have some issues with IB but that's probably influenced by my belief that he botched this case from the start and I think he's painfully aware of that. This was only the highest-profile case he's ever likely to encounter in his entire LE career, and he blew it by making easy assumptions instead of collecting evidence.

That's how I feel about it today. Ask me tomorrow and you might get a different answer, lol.

Yes, I know, quite the switcheroo for one who has been "Doubting LE in OK since the Girl Scout Murders in 1977."

 

[fiberoptick]

I'm not sure if this is old news or not, but I thought it would be of interest if it has not already been reported.

I read that the remains were found 2.7 air miles in a north or northwest direction from the truck, and that the remains were found in an area frequently used as a campsite, and that the remains were found in Smokestack Hollow.

Initially I found a 15 acre triangular tract of land lying along the 2.7 mile ring in a flat area in Smokestack Hollow north/northwest of the abandoned truck that looked like it could be an area for camping, but I could find no clear signs of camping activity by zooming in on the area with Google Earth.

I then looked at another nearby area and found a clearly identifiable campfire/campsite. This location is also in Smokestack Hollow and is very close to the 2.7 mile range ring. This might be the area where the remains were found. The attached topographic map shows the area of interest. The red range ring is centered on the location of the abandoned truck, and I have shown the trail/road that the Jamisons might have taken from the truck. At about 11-12 O'clock on the ring are three points of interest marked with yellow labels. One is the campsite, and the other two are two corners of the triangular tract of land that I was initially interested in.

I'm sure that there are numerous campfires in the area, but it seems like quite a coincidence that this particular campfire is located in Smokestack Hollow only 63 yards beyond the 2.7 mile range ring, and it is also north/northwest of the abandoned truck.

For those of you who want to look at the campfire/campsite for yourselves zoom in with Google Earth at 35.040717, -95.224189. It is unlikely that remains will be visible, but you never know. It might be worthwhile to see if there are any high resolution Google images taken closer to the time of the disappearance.

Hollye (I think?) posted this location as a possible days ago but it is no longer on the map they created. I keep going back to look at that location anyway! I also can't help but notice what looks like a figure wearing a red shirt walking towards the area but it might be just my eyes playing tricks on me with the Google copyright overlay.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

They were seen and talked to on the morning of the 9th, according to this.

"(They) knew that the vehicle had been there for a while because they had spoken with that family on the 8th and the morning of the 9th," Beauchamp said.

http://www.4029tv.com/Search-Contin...mily/-/8898190/5282714/-/106amas/-/index.html

For some reason I thought the wrong dates were given at some point by the neighbor, LE, or the media, then it was discovered to have been one day earlier. I figured that's why mtrooper called it the 7th and 8th after she went out there to investigate?

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

Yes, sure, I'd like to see the video too but if we're doubting that the to-and-fro indicated something sinister, we're basically doubting the sheriff and whomever else viewed the footage and found it to be a concern. I've doubted OK LE's accounts on numerous occasions but for some reason I believe that here they acted in good faith - at least regarding the footage.

But think of LE and the video of the MCStays, though. :-/ An awful lot of people trusted LE's assessment there, in spite of the family saying it wasn't them.

 

[wfgodot]

But think of LE and the video of the MCStays, though. :-/ An awful lot of people trusted LE's assessment there, in spite of the family saying it wasn't them.

Yes, law enforcement can in fact be proven to be human!

 

[missingnotforgotten]

Hollye (I think?) posted this location as a possible days ago but it is no longer on the map they created. I keep going back to look at that location anyway! I also can't help but notice what looks like a figure wearing a red shirt walking towards the area but it might be just my eyes playing tricks on me with the Google copyright overlay.

View attachment 39139

Looks like someone walking, maybe wearing a red hunting vest?

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

For those of you who want to look at the campfire/campsite for yourselves zoom in with Google Earth at 35.040717, -95.224189. It is unlikely that remains will be visible, but you never know. It might be worthwhile to see if there are any high resolution Google images taken closer to the time of the disappearance.

Thank you! I can see a trail leading to an open space with a fire ring, quite clearly.

And, er... maybe it's just pareidolia striking again, but... does anyone else see those two apparently fallen logs that are much paler than any other fallen logs, one to each side of the entrance to this camping area from the trail? One looks like it may have blue jeans on and be laying on its left side.

Or, I'm just freaking myself out. It's happened.

 

[Elainera]

Hollye (I think?) posted this location as a possible days ago but it is no longer on the map they created. I keep going back to look at that location anyway! I also can't help but notice what looks like a figure wearing a red shirt walking towards the area but it might be just my eyes playing tricks on me with the Google copyright overlay.

View attachment 39139

I was immediately drawn to the two white-ish shapes on the left side of the picture, exactly at the left edge of the little clearing. They look eerily like two bodies lying down. But probably just branches.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

Yes, law enforcement can in fact be proven to be human!

I think there is some confirmation bias involved in the viewing of these videos which may (naturally) influence the LE examining them. McStay stay vehicle at border = family resembling McStays on border crossing videotape. Jamison family acting cray cray = zombie-like truck packing videotape.

 

[Elainera]

Thank you! I can see a trail leading to an open space with a fire ring, quite clearly.

And, er... maybe it's just pareidolia striking again, but... does anyone else see those two apparently fallen logs that are much paler than any other fallen logs, one to each side of the entrance to this camping area from the trail? One looks like it may have blue jeans on and be laying on its left side.

Or, I'm just freaking myself out. It's happened.

Yes! Exactly what I also just posted about! :seeya:

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

Quoting myself:

does anyone else see those two apparently fallen logs that are much paler than any other fallen logs, one to each side of the entrance to this camping area from the trail? One looks like it may have blue jeans on and be laying on its left side.

Sorry, I meant lying on its RIGHT side.

I know denim lasts much longer even after other clothes have disintegrated.

Does anyone know how long it takes bones to bleach from brown to white if exposed to sunlight?

 

[Mitch1]

Thank you! I can see a trail leading to an open space with a fire ring, quite clearly.

And, er... maybe it's just pareidolia striking again, but... does anyone else see those two apparently fallen logs that are much paler than any other fallen logs, one to each side of the entrance to this camping area from the trail? One looks like it may have blue jeans on and be laying on its left side.

Or, I'm just freaking myself out. It's happened.

Too me the thing that seems to look like a guy wearing a vest-the shadow seems to be on the wrong side as its behind him/her and not in front

The log looking things-If they are bones they seem way to big and I don't see bones showing up so clearly on an aerial-definitly could be wrong though

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

The log looking things-If they are bones they seem way to big

So hard to judge scale this way... I thought it was possible based on the size of the fire ring, if it's a small fire ring. But if it's bigger than I'm imagining, yeah, those logs would be too big to be the bodies.

 

[paris_paris]

Hollye (I think?) posted this location as a possible days ago but it is no longer on the map they created. I keep going back to look at that location anyway! I also can't help but notice what looks like a figure wearing a red shirt walking towards the area but it might be just my eyes playing tricks on me with the Google copyright overlay.

View attachment 39139

What are the coordinates for this one?

 

[OkieGranny]

For some reason I thought the wrong dates were given at some point by the neighbor, LE, or the media, then it was discovered to have been one day earlier. I figured that's why mtrooper called it the 7th and 8th after she went out there to investigate?

Well, I've been trying to work on pinning down the exact dates today, but I keep getting interrupted by IRL and now it's a long bloated post and I'm feeling kind of blah about finishing it.

The Jamisons' profiles were entered on the Charley Project in 2010 and the "missing" date is October 8, 2009. They were entered on NamUs in 2011 (Madyson in 2010) and the date is still the 8th. All of this was done under Sheriff Beauchamp's administration. NCMEC also has Madyson's missing date as the 8th. Good enough for me.

Doesn't really matter, I suppose, unless there's a suspect who has a solid alibi for one of those days but not the other.

 

[SchoolgirlShamus]

Well, I've been trying to work on pinning down the exact dates today, but I keep getting interrupted by IRL and now it's a long bloated post and I'm feeling kind of blah about finishing it.

But you have great posts, OkieGranny! Please post the long bloated one!! I for one will read it attentively.

The Jamisons' profiles were entered on the Charley Project in 2010 and the "missing" date is October 8, 2009. They were entered on NamUs in 2011 (Madyson in 2010) and the date is still the 8th. All of this was done under Sheriff Beauchamp's administration. NCMEC also has Madyson's missing date as the 8th. Good enough for me.

Meaning, then, that they went up on the mountain on the 7th, then went home, then came back on the 8th (and were seen by the neighbor who never noticed them coming back down), so the 8th is the "missing" date?

I do remember being informed that all cell activity (well -- except the VM weirdness on the 12th) ceased on the 8th.

Doesn't really matter, I suppose, unless there's a suspect who has a solid alibi for one of those days but not the other.

It might matter in terms of weather though, if exposure could factor in.

 

[mck16]

Quoting myself:


Sorry, I meant lying on its RIGHT side.

I know denim lasts much longer even after other clothes have disintegrated.

Does anyone know how long it takes bones to bleach from brown to white if exposed to sunlight?

Thanks for changing that to right side. Also what did the video show they were wearing? tia

 

[OkieGranny]

I think, and honestly I'm just guessing here, that whoever said he talked to the Jamisons on the 9th was misremembering the date. It wasn't until a week after the truck was found that the existence of the security video was discovered and it did prove what day the Jamisons last left their house.

So, early reports tend to say the 9th, and later reports tend to say the 8th. Heck, some even say the 7th.

ETA: Oh, I just saw the first part you wrote, lol. My post was supposed to be an in-depth analysis of weather, phone records, timestamps, etc, but I didn't get the actual analysis part written. Feel free to take up that gauntlet. I have another project up my sleeve to stay busy while we await further developments.

ETA: Oops, I'm more distracted than I thought. Somehow managed not to quote Schoolgirl Shamus' post that I was replying to. :facepalm:

 

[little726]

Thank you! I can see a trail leading to an open space with a fire ring, quite clearly.

And, er... maybe it's just pareidolia striking again, but... does anyone else see those two apparently fallen logs that are much paler than any other fallen logs, one to each side of the entrance to this camping area from the trail? One looks like it may have blue jeans on and be laying on its left side.

Or, I'm just freaking myself out. It's happened.

I thought the same thing! Glad you mentioned it!

 

[Elainera]

what are the coordinates for this one?

35.040717, -95.224189