OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #8

[Oriah]

So say they found a spend bullet enbedded into the ground with tissue attached to it would ATF eximine that in a missing person case or the ME office? Or in the water tower or whatever.

What if the bullet was from a USA banned firearm ? Does that then open the door to an ATF investigation?


Maybe they did find evidence of a still? Or bobbys smokes didnt have a tax stamp but I dont think so .

Anthony Holland sold guns, lot of them and he is missing and No ATF there.(as I have heard of yet)

I know I need a ME....

Well here's the thing...what does it appear ATF usually investigates? Firearms, illegal drugs, and gangs. All of which frequently go together.

Now I'm not saying that's the case with the Jamisons- but when you look at ATF's most wanted:
http://www.atf.gov/most-wanted/
I draw the conclusion that they are interested not so much in tobacco and alcohol, as the more updated versions of those, umm, imported and exported products. And firearms. And gang activity.

But that's just this mornings theory, lol.

 

[Soulmagent]

Well here's the thing...what does it appear ATF usually investigates? Firearms, illegal drugs, and gangs. All of which frequently go together.

Now I'm not saying that's the case with the Jamisons- but when you look at ATF's most wanted:
http://www.atf.gov/most-wanted/
I draw the conclusion that they are interested not so much in tobacco and alcohol, as the more updated versions of those, umm, imported and exported products. And firearms. And gang activity.

But that's just this mornings theory, lol.

Reading thought the list only one of the wanted posters information did not include guns in the description.

Meth is explosive so I guess that would that would explain why the ATF Could be involved but that would mean there was evidence of meth and not just a history. Unless the investigation by the ATF was for someone else and their history and this investigation relates to that investigation. If it was a meth investigation, but it could still be another investigation intersect. If that makes any sence. Anyway that would bring us back to what we had wondered before about "another investigation " that may have been happening before this one started. Which is interesting.

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-does-the-government-agency-atf-do

 

[Oriah]

Reading thought the list only one of the wanted posters information did not include guns in the description.

Meth is explosive so I guess that would that would explain why the ATF Could be involved but that would mean there was evidence of meth and not just a history. Unless the investigation by the ATF was for someone else and their history and this investigation relates to that investigation. If it was a meth investigation, but it could still be another investigation intersect. If that makes any sence. Anyway that would bring us back to what we had wondered before about "another investigation " that may have been happening before this one started. Which is interesting.

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-does-the-government-agency-atf-do

BBM:
Yes, I think that is very possible, Soul.
And IIRC there was another horse in this race with a cache of firearms.

 

[Oriah]

Bumping for the Jamisons again...
I have been trying to find articles/news reports/media/videos/etc dated from Oct 17th thru November 7th or so, to compare what was originally stated, but never re-stated in the media.

Help, anyone!

 

[Soulmagent]

OFFtopic (but in my defence I was looking for your news articles)

Look at the picture of this guy? Anybody think he could possiblely fit the description of another OK crime?
Has this been posted already? I have not seen new post on that thread under new post but could have missed it so I am not sure.

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/Copy_of_OKGirl-Dead_99781121

 

[Oriah]

OFFtopic (but in my defence I was looking for your news articles)

Look at the picture of this guy? Anybody think he could possiblely fit the description of another OK crime?
Has this been posted already? I have not seen new post on that thread under new post but could have missed it so I am not sure.

http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/state/Copy_of_OKGirl-Dead_99781121

Thank you for looking, Soul.. I didn't see a thread on him, but maybe there's one in the OK thread or Crimes in the News?

Back on the issue of the picture of Madyson taken from the cell phone and used as last seen (and last seen location)...it is time stamped 1458 hrs on October 8th.
I'm sure we all discussed this earlier, but I'd like to revisit. What does this do for the timeline we have?

 

[Soulmagent]

I went looking for the Phone record post by Mtrooper and included the links. This is the only timed events I know of so I color bolded the part I added into the phone record calls of the pictures being taken.


OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #7 - Page 2 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

OK- I tried to lay it out better.

On 10/7 there were multiple calls on Bobbie’s cell phone 18 to be exact.
9:18 AM, Bobby checked his voicemail,
9:19 AM Bobby called a number that I am unable to identify and spoke for 37 minutes
9:26 AM received a call waiting call at spoke with them for 31 minutes (I am thinking maybe a 3 way call?) *both were Eufaula area numbers.
2:41 PM Bobby checked his voice mail
12:42 PM Bobby called the church family and spoke for 11 min.
1:38 PM Bobby placed a call to the land owners that live out of state (2 minutes).
1:40 PM Bobby called they back again for 2 more minutes.
1:55 PM Bobby checked his voice mail.
1:56 PM Bobby checked his voicemail
1:58 PM Bobby called the mystery Eufaula number (1 min.)
1:59 PM Bobby called his voicemail
2:02 PM Bobby called back the mystery Eufaula number (1min.).
2:06 PM Bobby called back the land owners (1min.). The land owners then called him 2:07 PM Land owners called Bobby (3min.)
2:15 PM Land owners called Bobby (2min.).
2:16 PM Bobby appears to have tried to call the lady that lives on the mountain but misdialed? One of the numbers is not right, but all the rest are (1min.).
2:18 PM Bobby calls property owners (1 min.)
9:18 PM.Bobby called his voicemail

On 10/8-
8:09AM Bobby calls lady on mountain (101min.)

12:53 the two photos of the signs were taken within the same minute

*it gets a bit weird here but I will do my best. So every time Bobby had dialed voice mail up until now the phone record shows VMAIL.

1:50 PM it looks like bobby dials voice mail )it has his number in the number called like all the other VMAIL calls, but instead of saying VMAIL it says BRISTO OK.
2:58 Picture of Madyson with rocks is taken

10/12. Same weirdness with the calls, they all look like he called to check his voicemail, but they are listed differently.
6:00PM BRISTO OK
8:00PM Incoming call
8:50PM incoming call
8:51PM BRISTO OK.

10/13-
5:27 PM incoming call
OK OK - Jamison Family; Truck, IDs, money, & dog found abandoned, Oct 2009 - #7 - Page 8 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community
The picture of Madyson (based on the GPS coordinates from the phone) was taken 100yds or so up a large hill/cliff area. The first 2 pictures were of well site signs that were less than a mile or so from where the truck was found. They were both taken at 12:53 on 10/08/2009.
(SNIPPED)

 

[Oriah]

Thank you Soul for reposting the time log.

Let's add to that, that obviously at some point the phone was returned to the truck.

Was the phone perhaps removed from the truck and returned several times before it was found by LE? And why are both phones (Bobby's and Sherilyns) not on the OSBI SW? Are we missing a SW somewhere? Because they seized the entire vehicle, does that mean that everything in it was initially entered into evidence, and a specific SW issued only for the items listed upthread?

I am befuzzled as to how phone records could indicate that there was activity after the reported last seen date, and that that would not be reason enough to seize both phones.

 

[wfgodot]

1. (from above) Here's the WS James Waukei/Watonga child murder thread: OK - 8-year-old girl found murdered; 20-year-old man in custody Like a suspect in what other case, Soul? Weleetka?

2. Okay, okay. Let's say we're talking "parties who would have stood to gain from disappearing the Jamisons." Which would say is the most likely culprit, all things considered (and not taking into account dollar amounts on the "stands to gain" part, just as a general rule of thumb): one who stands to gain financially from their disappearance, or one who would stand to keep what he, she, or they already have?

 

[Oriah]

1. (from above) Here's the WS James Waukei/Watonga child murder thread: OK - 8-year-old girl found murdered; 20-year-old man in custody Like a suspect in what other case, Soul? Weleetka?

2. Okay, okay. Let's say we're talking "parties who would have stood to gain from disappearing the Jamisons." Which would say is the most likely culprit, all things considered (and not taking into account dollar amounts on the "stands to gain" part, just as a general rule of thumb): one who stands to gain financially from their disappearance, or one who would stand to keep what he, she, or they already have?

wfgodot, glad to see you...thought we'd lost you to ennui. :seeya:

Do you think that the phone records might indicate someone else was using Bobby's phone after the 8th?

 

[Soulmagent]

1. (from above) Here's the WS James Waukei/Watonga child murder thread: OK - 8-year-old girl found murdered; 20-year-old man in custody Like a suspect in what other case, Soul? Weleetka?

2. Okay, okay. Let's say we're talking "parties who would have stood to gain from disappearing the Jamisons." Which would say is the most likely culprit, all things considered (and not taking into account dollar amounts on the "stands to gain" part, just as a general rule of thumb): one who stands to gain financially from their disappearance, or one who would stand to keep what he, she, or they already have?

Yes Wfgodot, weleetka. The drawing that was done and the description. Although I am not current on that thread.

I cant say who would be the most likey culprit but I will say people who feel like they are losing something are more inclined to fight to keep it or do what they need to to protect it, if they feel strongly about it. IMO

 

[wfgodot]

wfgodot, glad to see you...thought we'd lost you to ennui. :seeya:

Do you think that the phone records might indicate someone else was using Bobby's phone after the 8th?

Are we referring to the phone that somehow later found its way into a swimming pool?

 

[wfgodot]

I cant say who would be the most likey culprit but I will say people who feel like they are losing something are more inclined to fight to keep it or do what they need to to protect it, if they feel strongly about it. IMO

Agreeing 100%.

 

[Oriah]

Are we referring to the phone that somehow later found its way into a swimming pool?

That would be the one.
Although..... I don't have a source for that other than the SW. Why are there pictures of the phone from the SO, but it's not on the SW?? Am I missing a SW somewhere???? I don't think I am.

 

[wfgodot]

That would be the one.
Although..... I don't have a source for that other than the SW. Why are there pictures of the phone from the SO, but it's not on the SW?? Am I missing a SW somewhere???? I don't think I am.

If Maisie was not in the truck for the length of time LE assumes she was, it's quite possible that the Jamisons themselves were using the phone at a date later than it is presumed they disappeared.

 

[Soulmagent]

The 9th until the 12th Nothing is mentioned about any phone useage.

I say based on what the the phone shows on the 12th and the 13th , that it could appear that is the actualy day the truck was last parked back on the mountain. Could Maizey pull 4 days? Bobbie's cell records do not have the same call pattern ,and we know the phone was in the truck. We do not have the pings correct? Why the lapse in useage and then suddenly it is working again? Was it plugged into the charger?

Anyone remember the date the call came in about the dog being in the truck the first time?

 

[little726]

Oriah, I'm still working on finding the well number. I discovered I was looking at a map from 1966, updated in 1976. Such a waste of time.

The only well I've found is #1032, but I can't find a record for it. Will keep looking.

Soul, great job on the listings. I still say Bobby's phone was removed from the truck and put back later. I'm also not positive the photo of Madyson was taken where it says it was taken at.

Woofie (WFG) ((((HUG))))!!!!

 

[wfgodot]

Anyone remember the date the call came in about the dog being in the truck the first time?

The Jamisons were last seen alive Oct. 9 by a local man as the family was looking for a plot of land for sale. Eight days later a hunter reported the family's abandoned pickup at a well site in the mountains northwest of Red Oak.

http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publishe...&topicId=100020825&docId=l:1179820356&start=9

17th then. This is from the infamous "spirits on the roof" article, which I've read so often it feels like a first cousin by now.

 

[Oriah]

You guys rock! Let me see about digging up the cell pings... perhaps part of the phone record issue is that the service is spotty on the mountain (I have several services- Verizon being one) but I am having a hard time coming up with any other theories....

Also, a request to anyone following the public FB- anyone want to clarify what's goin' on over there??

 

[Soulmagent]

17th then. This is from the infamous "spirits on the roof" article, which I've read so often it feels like a first cousin by now.

Well then Madyson's last seen description who we assume was provides at first by the one who last saw her (on the 9th)shouldnt of been updated to the cell phone picture which was tken at a later date.

Also the whole missing poster date seems it would be listed as they were last seen on the 9th. I have always assumed that sighting happened on the 8th .