OK OK - Molly Miller, 17, & Colt Haynes, 21, Wilson, 7 July 2013 - #1

[OkieGranny]

I agree it is very deep and it is strange. Someone a long time ago suggested it may be from a tree that had fallen over and exposed the ground, but that hole looks different. Almost like a backhoe had one of those bits that drill post holes or something.

It would be interesting to get the dimensions of how deep it was and the diameter. It is too narrow to be hand dug. They have these auger type bits that can go on backhoes, and that is what I am thinking drilled it.

Also, since fire needs oxygen, and since the hole seems so deep there would not be a lot of oxygen, I think fuel like gasoline had to be used to keep it burning. Almost like someone would have to come back every day or so and add more gas to keep stuff burning down there.

Unless the deepness is shallower than I think it is.

All JMO of course.

I think you're right about the auger. That's exactly what it looks like. Something like this:

I agree about the fire too. In a hole that deep and that narrow, somebody had to be tending it to keep it burning for two weeks.

 

[Hecallsmeraquel]

I have kept quiet about this but I was blocked from Molly's fb page several weeks ago for stating that she made a huge error in judgment for getting in that car. That is all I said no bashing no drama. After I was blocked I was then attacked via fb message from Garrett (it was not pretty at all). A day later an email was sent to my boss stating that I spent my time bashing a missing girl on fb and should be fired. I know this is a victim friendly forum but The Millers are not what they seem.

 

[Hatfield]

I think you're right about the auger. That's exactly what it looks like. Something like this:

I agree about the fire too. In a hole that deep and that narrow, somebody had to be tending it to keep it burning for two weeks.

Thank you OkieGranny. That picture of the auger bit on the tractor/backhoe was EXACTLY what I was referring to. It is the only type of equipment I know of that could make a hole like that.

 

[McSpy]

I have kept quiet about this but I was blocked from Molly's fb page several weeks ago for stating that she made a huge error in judgment for getting in that car. That is all I said no bashing no drama. After I was blocked I was then attacked via fb message from Garrett (it was not pretty at all). A day later an email was sent to my boss stating that I spent my time bashing a missing girl on fb and should be fired. I know this is a victim friendly forum but The Millers are not what they seem.

I think emotions are running very high. They just want to find Molly. The family is going through a traumatic time.

Molly made mistakes like many girls her age have made, but she didn't deserve to die over it. She got caught up in something, which turned out to be dangerous. It is every parents' fear. We just need to find her and if she was murdered or hurt, she and her family need justice too.

JMO

 

[McSpy]

PMF posted pictures from the family's searches on OFMM. I believe at least one is a photo of the burning hole.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/438762539575189/permalink/467227303395379/

https://www.facebook.com/groups/438762539575189/permalink/467238653394244/

I wish there were captions with the pics. One image looks like it could be a creek bed. It has white sand or limestone (not sure what I'm looking at). What do you think?

 

[Hatfield]

Welcome Hecallsmeraquel.

 

[OkieGranny]

I have kept quiet about this but I was blocked from Molly's fb page several weeks ago for stating that she made a huge error in judgment for getting in that car. That is all I said no bashing no drama. After I was blocked I was then attacked via fb message from Garrett (it was not pretty at all). A day later an email was sent to my boss stating that I spent my time bashing a missing girl on fb and should be fired. I know this is a victim friendly forum but The Millers are not what they seem.

That was a terribly insensitive thing to say to a grieving family. And guess what? I've kept quiet about something, too.

My little grandson was murdered. I won't give details because I don't talk about it, ever. But I will tell you what happened after. The man who did it walked away scot-free. Not enough evidence to prosecute, case closed. No justice for my boy, no answers to my questions. Not ever. I can tell you that grief, frustration, and rage are a potent mix. An explosive mix.

And I exploded. A LOT. I picked fights with anybody, anytime, anywhere, over any stupid thing just to vent my fury, and there were serious fractures in my family as a result. I'd spend weeks at a time holed up in my house, refusing to see or speak to anyone, not showering, barely sleeping or eating. I was completely unhinged, emotionally and mentally, and it took more than a year before I was finally able turn the corner and begin to see daylight again.

Now I've had almost four years to learn how to live with my tragedy. The Millers have only had four months; they're still in the crisis stage. They haven't been able to bring Molly home, they still have a million questions with no answers, and there still have been no arrests. Resolution and healing are a long way off for them. I get it. I have a pretty good idea where their heads are at right now. A thing like this, it breaks more than your heart.

This is not simply grief. This is something much more complex. Anyone who hasn't experienced it is never going to understand what it does to you. But I do understand, and every single member of both families has my absolute and complete sympathy.

I will not be jumping on the anti-Miller bandwagon. They're entitled to feel what they feel, and no one has any right to dictate how they should be coping with the nightmare they're living right now. They don't owe anyone anything except appreciation for their support. If someone says some dumb thing on that page and gets spanked, that's just too bad. The smart thing for a person to do in that situation is to realize they've overstepped and tiptoe away quietly. The ones who get their feelings hurt and get combative, well, they're just so out of line I don't even want to say how it makes me feel.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[Hatfield]

I wish there were captions with the pics. One image looks like it could be a creek bed. It has white sand or limestone (not sure what I'm looking at). What do you think?

Unfortunately for me, I dont do FB so it limits me on cases like this. Im probably the only person in the world that still doesnt have or want a FB page. :floorlaugh:

 

[McSpy]

That was a terribly insensitive thing to say to a grieving family. And guess what? I've kept quiet about something, too.

My little grandson was murdered. I won't give details because I don't talk about it, ever. But I will tell you what happened after. The man who did it walked away scot-free. Not enough evidence to prosecute, case closed. No justice for my boy, no answers to my questions. Not ever. I can tell you that grief, frustration, and rage are a potent mix. An explosive mix.

And I exploded. A LOT. I picked fights with anybody, anytime, anywhere, over any stupid thing just to vent my fury, and there were serious fractures in my family as a result. I'd spend weeks at a time holed up in my house, refusing to see or speak to anyone, not showering, barely sleeping or eating. I was completely unhinged, emotionally and mentally, and it took more than a year before I was finally able turn the corner and begin to see daylight again.

Now I've had almost four years to learn how to live with my tragedy. The Millers have only had four months; they're still in the crisis stage. They haven't been able to bring Molly home, they still have a million questions with no answers, and there still have been no arrests. Resolution and healing are a long way off for them. I get it. I have a pretty good idea where their heads are at right now. A thing like this, it breaks more than your heart.

This is not simply grief. This is something much more complex. Anyone who hasn't experienced it is never going to understand what it does to you. But I do understand, and every single member of both families has my absolute and complete sympathy.

I will not be jumping on the anti-Miller bandwagon. They're entitled to feel what they feel, and no one has any right to dictate how they should be coping with the nightmare they're living right now. They don't owe anyone anything except appreciation for their support. If someone says some dumb thing on that page and gets spanked, that's just too bad. The smart thing for a person to do in that situation is to realize they've overstepped and tiptoe away quietly. The ones who get their feelings hurt and get combative, well, they're just so out of line I don't even want to say how it makes me feel.

And that's all I have to say about that.

Well said!

I am so sorry about your grandchild. I can't imagine the grief and heartache.

 

[Hatfield]

Well said!

I am so sorry about your grandchild. I can't imagine the grief and heartache.

Me too. Im so sorry to hear about what happened. You are so right that people have no idea unless they have to walk in the same shoes.

The closest example for me that I can relate to is my spouse father died and even during the last days in the hospital and funeral arrangements, her family members had a lot of in-fighting amongst themselves, and I had to try and be a mediator on multiple occasions.

I could not understand why anger between them was happening at a time like that, but I think I finally began to realize that the pain and grief that they had was the root cause of all the anger. It seemed to me that anger was a natural and involuntary reaction as a way to cope with what was happening and the only thing they could do was fight amongst themselves as a "release" of the grief and pain they were going through. It started to make sense to me because they could not help themselves and it was all very involuntary. Even myself was starting to get into it with others as the stress built.

So i came away from that experience realizing that it is something that is very common, it was involuntary and a natural reaction of sorts. Once I realized and learned that, it is much easier not to blame anybody for things said.

I learned an awful lot during that experience. And I sympathise with others much more now and forgive people for things that may seem unwarranted.

 

[Hecallsmeraquel]

If you had read my comments I was not being disrespectful at all. Do you not agree it was poor judgment? And I never once said she deserved this fate. My statement was about being that age and how we do not always make the best decisions which was in line with the discussion. And lastly if you look at the beginning of this thread it was I that pushed hard for everyone here to get involved in this case and find these two. I have kept my porch light on I have prayed and I have shared petitions and I will continue to do those things until they are found. What I will not do is be threatened or accused of nonsense. I have children and grandchildren myself and for someone to try and take my livelihood because of a fb post is beyond disturbing.

 

[wfgodot]

Just as a general rule of thumb it's almost never helpful to post ex post facto admonishments. Particularly involving victims.

And I speak as one who sometimes posts unhelpful things too - kvetching and moaning about uncontrollable case aspects, etc.

 

[Hatfield]

Back to the hole....It seems I recall in one of the radio interviews, a family member witnessed a tractor or something that was filling in the hole or covering the hole. Wonder if that could have been the same tractor that dug it in first place.

 

[OkieGranny]

Back to the hole....It seems I recall in one of the radio interviews, a family member witnessed a tractor or something that was filling in the hole or covering the hole. Wonder if that could have been the same tractor that dug it in first place.

I think it was the OSBI agent who did that. Dunno where he got the backhoe.

 

[TooCurious]

Wow... this case is disturbing. The more I have read into it the more I think MM was a victim long before this happened. I hope she is found soon and those responsible are brought to justice.

 

[Hatfield]

I think it was the OSBI agent who did that. Dunno where he got the backhoe.

Oh....I must have remembered it wrong. That is interesting that the OSBI themselves would fill up the hole. Wonder why in the world they did that. One would think they would have left it alone in case they wanted to come back later. Maybe whoever land it was gave them permission to search it and told them to fill it when they were done.

Really strange though that the OBSI would have access to a tractor. Unless they were working with the land owner at the time and maybe he was on it.

The filling up of the hole bothers me almost as much as the way evidence was gathered.

 

[TooCurious]

Filling the hole would help preserve evidence. If they were not set up to excavate the site or were wanting to wait for test results. Rains would not damage the evidence, it is in a wet season creek bed i think and no one will be tampering with it.

 

[sloane7777]

Well said!

I am so sorry about your grandchild. I can't imagine the grief and heartache.

Okie:
I am truly sorry for your loss, I cant imagine the hell you have lived and continue living, Im glad you are helping others thats a wonderful honor for your sweet boy:blowkiss:

 

[OkieGranny]

Oh....I must have remembered it wrong. That is interesting that the OSBI themselves would fill up the hole. Wonder why in the world they did that. One would think they would have left it alone in case they wanted to come back later. Maybe whoever land it was gave them permission to search it and told them to fill it when they were done.

Really strange though that the OBSI would have access to a tractor. Unless they were working with the land owner at the time and maybe he was on it.

The filling up of the hole bothers me almost as much as the way evidence was gathered.

Yeah, it's in the radio transcript, but PMF never said where the backhoe came from. I can't imagine the agent brought one with him. Maybe borrowed from a neighbor? Or called the county to bring one out?

I thought filling the hole was outrageous at first, but on further reflection thought maybe he did it as a way to preserve any remaining evidence. Filling it in does make it more difficult for someone with something to hide to come back and clean out the hole.

ETA: And I'm having no luck at all trying to match the photos to specific locations. Thought I might at least be able to match the tree stumps sticking out of the pond, but it looks like the water level is much lower in these pics than it was in the satellite photos.

 

[OkieGranny]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/438762539575189/permalink/467227303395379/

PMF says they used cadaver dogs to search rivers, creeks, and lakes. Doesn't say anything about using the cadaver dogs in other areas, such as the hole. Surely they would have sent the dogs all over while they had them out there? Hard to tell from her statement whether they did.

I was hoping for a photo of the wreck site. The only one I see as a possibility shows a burned area with barbed wire fencing, a fencepost, and what looks like a gate, but it's hard to make out any hinge or latch where it meets the fencepost. It is pretty bent up, but the fence looks intact, so maybe this isn't the spot. Or maybe the fence was repaired after the car was towed, I don't know.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10201778838185587&set=pcb.467238653394244&type=1&theater