OK - Tommy Wolf, 9, murdered, mom injured, Nichols Hills, 16 Nov 2009 *Insanity*

[Lovejac]

A 9-year-old boy stabbed to death by his physician father early Monday was initially asleep at the time of the attack, Nichols Hills police believe...

http://www.koco.com/video/21669508/

http://www.koco.com/news/21667297/detail.html

I sure hope he never even realized what was happening and by whom.

I pray the same thing

 

[Lovejac]

KOCO funeral note:
Slain Nichols Hills Boy Buried: Friends, Classmates Mourn Tommy Wolf

"Hundreds of people, including members of Wolf's fellow Cub Scout pack, attended the funeral."

http://www.koco.com/news/21681158/detail.html

I cannot fathom what these parents of Tommy's friend are saying to their children about what happened. Don't you think there are some children wondering if their own parent could "snap" and hurt them too?

 

[wfgodot]

I cannot fathom what these parents of Tommy's friend are saying to their children about what happened. Don't you think there are some children wondering if their own parent could "snap" and hurt them too?

I'm also completely at a loss about what I would say to a child, to reassure him or her and to guarantee the safety of their world.

From Newson6:

"If an event like this can be called beautiful, it was beautiful. It was just right," said Mary Tidholm, who attended Tommy's funeral.
-----
"He talked about what a great kid he was. What an energetic kid he was," said family friend Bill Cathey. "He loved everything, the boy scouts, his friends. He was brilliantly smart. He was awesome in every aspect."

http://www.newson6.com/Global/story.asp?S=11545753

 

[krazykidz]

unfortunately, this will really upset the kids, but i'm sure with the help of parents, counselors, teachers, clergy, and even law enforcement, they can learn that there is only a small number of parents that kill their children (one is too many). immediate news and repetition invades our psyches on a daily basis and often makes it seem like these are commonplace occurrences. this can be upsetting to children and adults alike and kids should be sheltered as much as possible about the gruesome details, of course while being taught to be safe at home, school, and public.

the upside of the media attention is the increased awareness of mental illness in the population at large. this is more commonplace than thought or acknowledged a generation ago. i want to point out as someone very familiar with depression in my family, that it often manifests as anger, mistrust, and/or hopelessness instead of the old run of the mill sadness that many people associate with depression. it has been a red flag when i have heard certain folks saying things like "no one can be trusted", "everyone is out for themselves and a bunch of liars", "life sux", "a stupid f@#$ing a@@^!( person cut me off in carpool line and i almost rammed their car", etc. "what's the point of even trying?" some would see this as anger issues when in reality it could really be clinical depression.

 

[mayelf]

I just don't believe a medication causes mental instability in the way the bottles warnings proclaim.

This scenario is IF he had a mental break. Which in my opinion does not mean he shouldn't get the death penalty, but we do know the law has a different opinion.

I do not believe someone can blame a medication for murder. If that was the case then they should get rid of all medications with this "side warning." Whether he was taking medication or not, I believe his mind would and could reach the same mindset. Medication/alcohol/drugs can enhance a person's mental illness but so can stress and life triggers. I believe if we can say it was the medication's fault if he was on any, then we would be just as likely to say it was the wife's fault if she told him to move out.

And that's basically why I respectfully disagree to blame medication/alcohol/drugs for a person murdering another person.

I know most of the world doesn't agree with that. It's my own opinion.

 

[YellowDog]

I just don't believe a medication causes mental instability in the way the bottles warnings proclaim.

Do you honestly think that warnings on prescriptions are just put there frivously? WOW!

 

[Tizzle]

I have seen, twice, a person black out from the combination of illegal use prescription opiates and beer. One time he was wielding a knife, the other time he was dragging my friend by her hair through their house beating her, both times he was completely irrational and absolutely terrifying. He remembers nothing of either episode. He suffers from depression and self medicates. The only differences, he was not making references to the devil or anything like that and, thankfully, no one was killed. He is now her ex.

I'm just saying that it is possible, I've seen it. The combination of mental disorder, drug/alcohol abuse and stress can cause these mental breaks. I have said before that I, too, think the origin of the episode has to do with a mental disorder. I also feel he should be punished accordingly, regardless of his mental state or prescribed medications and especially if it was exacerbated by illegal drug/alcohol abuse.JMO

 

[mayelf]

Do you honestly think that warnings on prescriptions are just put there frivously? WOW!

No, I just think there is more to it. I just don't think that people should be able to blame a medication for murder.

 

[Sheromom]

No, I just think there is more to it. I just don't think that people should be able to blame a medication for murder.

Very humiliating to admit now as I am a strong advocate of drug abuse prevention/awareness programs but I grew up a "flower child" of the 60's and early 70's and have tried many drugs myself. Even LSD and PSP. Can't say that I EVER felt the desire to kill someone and most certainly not someone I loved. I always knew I was under the influence of a drug; always. Even the prescription drugs that I used; well, I just always knew I was drugged and that I needed to wait for the effect to wear off. I, too, have taken prescriptions for depression; they were strange drugs......different from the recreational drugs but NEVER did I feel the urge to kill someone. Here is a man, a doctor, who loses his family, and, like many other men, kills the child. I just can't help but wonder if we are defending him because of his social status!

Youch!!! Maybe told more about myself than I meant to. I do not know about meth......THAT drug scares me; but I know about most of the other drugs and I do not find them as an excuse either.

 

[wfgodot]

I'm not defending this fellow at all, but it is a fact that he was diagnosed with clinical depression, was hospitalized twice by same, evidently worked very hard to overcome his condition, became a licensed physician in spite of what seems in retrospect to have been a crushing affliction, and practiced successfully for almost two decades after the hospitalizations, thus overcoming, for a time, considerable odds. It is not only a tragic case; it also contains, quite apart from his social status, the elements of dramatic tragedy.

 

[southcitymom]

Anytime a person who has no history of abusing their child physically and some history of mental illness.....all of the sudden stabs their child to death while talking about demons/devils.......the first thing I think of is mental illness, regardless of the profession or social status of the perp.

 

[1000Sparks]

a person knows when they don't feel "right". This man went through depression so he knew what it was...too proud to get help or meds which help immensely.

Why did he kill his wife? why his son? no excuse drugs or not but probably not

 

[crystalgenie]

Anytime a person who has no history of abusing their child physically and some history of mental illness.....all of the sudden stabs their child to death while talking about demons/devils.......the first thing I think of is mental illness, regardless of the profession or social status of the perp.

I just want to say that I personally know not all child abuse is reported in poor to privileged families. One of my friends comes from a privileged family and he was beaten with coat hangers, spatulas and punched by his father, as a child, but yet it was never reported...

This man could have mental issues although clinical depression generally doesn’t lead to murder... it leads to suicide. He may just be "crazy like a fox."

 

[I AM THE 14 CAR]

This Dr. has already made "the list". I would like to know exactly what (med for depression) he was taking. Usually on the list, the med is known & listed.

This is sorted by DATE so Dr Wolf will be at the bottom. If you spend just a couple of minutes looking at the list, you'll see this is NOT rare , imo at least.
You can also sort by drug, offense, or whatever.
Like another poster mentioned with the Olten case...I ran across this site trying to find something on Alyssa Bustamante & Prozac.
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?sort=date

IMO....theres was too many "cases" on the list to say ... Oh, you cant blame the meds.
I dont buy it. SOMETHING is going on.

 

[YellowDog]

This Dr. has already made "the list". I would like to know exactly what (med for depression) he was taking. Usually on the list, the med is known & listed.

This is sorted by DATE so Dr Wolf will be at the bottom. If you spend just a couple of minutes looking at the list, you'll see this is NOT rare , imo at least.
You can also sort by drug, offense, or whatever.
Like another poster mentioned with the Olten case...I ran across this site trying to find something on Alyssa Bustamante & Prozac.
http://www.ssristories.com/index.php?sort=date

IMO....theres was too many "cases" on the list to say ... Oh, you cant blame the meds.
I dont buy it. SOMETHING is going on.

That list is staggering. IMO any drug that alters the mind can be very dangerous and Prozac seems to be very prevalent in that list. Thanks for posting that link.

 

[YellowDog]

a person knows when they don't feel "right". This man went through depression so he knew what it was...too proud to get help or meds which help immensely.

Why did he kill his wife? why his son? no excuse drugs or not but probably not

Knowing you have depression and being able to treat it yourself does not go
"hand in hand". Wasn't he under treatment by another physician for this?

 

[RLynne]

I've spent a lot of time thinking about this case. One thing to consider--he was diagnosed, and treated, for major depression. In my experience, it is not that uncommon for people who are actually bi-polar to be misdiagnosed as depressed (I've previously commented on a family member with a major mental illness--this is what happened to her, and, in my opinion, years of misdiagnosis and lack of treatment/proper treatment contributed to the severity of her illness).

The problem with this is that while anti-depressants (particularly SSRI's) are often used to treat bi-polar disorder, they should be used in conjunction with mood stabilizers. If they are not, there is research to indicate that SSRI's can trigger a manic state. Some people, while in an acute manic state, can become quite psychotic.

While I'm not a psychiatrist, and of course have limited information in this particular, I would not be surprised if a misdiagnosis (and that he is later diagnosed as seriously bi-polar, or schizophrenic) comes into play here.

For a short introduction to medication issues in treatment of bi-polar disorder, see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder#Medication . There's lots more out there, of course...

 

[wfgodot]

Are there any lists of the millions the drugs under discussion above have helped better to function as productive members of society? Of those whose lives were saved by adequate treatment with them, so that they did not hurl themselves into the abyss? Of those who would have been endangered had those drugs not been given to others suffering from a wide range of conditions which can provoke both psychological and physical violence?

 

[Gray]

I take an SSRI and I have never felt motivated to harm anyone else.

 

[tapu]

I take an SSRI and I have never felt motivated to harm anyone else.

Well, yet. Ha ha, just kidding. I and several people I know have been on psych meds with much success for varying spans of years.

I am a professional with a child and a normal homelife. I take my meds "religiously" and they let me live without the highs and the lows of bipolar disorder.

I was on meds for 10 years, and then with the help of my psychopharmacologist, went off meds to have a baby and nurse, and then went back on them successfully.

I believe this is the most typical of patient stories. But I could be wrong. Just know that this doctor's story is not typical, I don't believe.