Found Deceased OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024 #6 *Arrests*

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I, too, hope that the maternal grandparents or othere famly member will petition the courts for custody, but with the children's father still living they would have to take away his parental rights.

In addition to Wrangler's rights, there is the matter of the other charges regarding the maternal side of the family. I have no doubt TA did everything in her power to make things seem as terrible as possible, and I have concerns regarding the local therapist she chose, but the charges don't just go away because of the murders.

And where is Wrangler now? is he still in rehab? in jail? or back at TA's house?
 
I had TA and TC pegged for private attorney. Early on Cole had indicated he would have a private attorney. Since they are owners of large tracts of land and business owners as well as TA being chairman of a political party and member of a hospital board -- well, those things seem to signal money. We also knew from the beginning, that it was Cora who would need a court-appointed attorney, as there was considerable discussion of how she felt with Cole saying he would hire an attorney and she had to take a public defender. Some even tied that to Cole's possible/perceived anger at Cora's daughter.

So now you're saying Cora may have a private attorney -- info new to me.

Now, of course, it seems TA has filed or is filing indigent paperwork for a court-appointed attorney.

I don't know how things will shake out as it seems to keep changing.
The most recent court filings had Cora with an attorney hired/appointed through the Indigent Legal services. She is not an attorney actually employed by the state, but rather a private attorney with the necessary DP experience who the state will pay to represent Cora.
 
In addition to Wrangler's rights, there is the matter of the other charges regarding the maternal side of the family. I have no doubt TA did everything in her power to make things seem as terrible as possible, and I have concerns regarding the local therapist she chose, but the charges don't just go away because of the murders.

And where is Wrangler now? is he still in rehab? in jail? or back at TA's house?
You know what I never got was how the court kept Vernonica's visits supervised but never addressed the fact that Wrangler, who had custody, abandoned those kids to care of his mother. She didn't have custody. I'm hoping his record and the fact that he did abandon them will expedite him losing all parental rights and those kids never have to contact with that family, again. I worry about any s*** he may pull in the future, though, if he's like his mother.
 
No she’s not changed her plea from the Not Guilty at her initial appearance. But I think any decent defense attorney would advise a client to seek a plea deal especially if the DP is going to be a factor. JMO
I don't know why the Prosecution would offer any one of them a plea deal, especially TA as she seems to be the catalyst for the whole thing. They've got all the evidence they need it sounds like from these geniuses, including statements from the daughter was it? It's hard to keep up with all the players here.

They conspired and brutally murdered two innocent women and buried them in a freezer 15 ft deep. I don't think it gets much more inhumane or twisted than that. :(

JMO
 
She has distanced herself? Then she probably isn't into the sovereign state stuff anymore - if she ever was.
I feel she still believes and supports the sovciv mindset and lifestyle. In my opinion she is only distancing herself to not be associated with the murders. She also does not want the state to be looking removing her children from her care if she had knowledge or participated in the planning of the murders.
 
Yes good point. It’s still very early in the legal process as well.

The only reason I can think of why she may stand behind her guilty plea is she must know she lost what she was fighting for - custody of the two grandchildren.

If by some unlikely outcome, even if she was found not guilty of double murder, I doubt any court would award her custody of her grandchildren as at the very least, she surely will be convicted of Conspiracy to Commit Murder considering there’s proof she purchased the stun guns and cellphones involved in the homicides.

All and all she’s extremely foolish if she thought she could get away with erasing the existence of VB so she could have her grandchildren all to herself.

JMO
MOO. TA's son still has custody, unless he is sent to prison or a judge removes the kids from his care, he will still have the kids. That is a win for TA, in her screwed up mind. I know she wouldn't let him take the kids one time and LEO was called and sided with her. But, we have to remember TA was consumed with preventing VB to have or see the kids.
 
MOO. TA's son still has custody, unless he is sent to prison or a judge removes the kids from his care, he will still have the kids. That is a win for TA, in her screwed up mind. I know she wouldn't let him take the kids one time and LEO was called and sided with her. But, we have to remember TA was consumed with preventing VB to have or see the kids.

Yes that is true, in her screwed up mind she prevented VB from seeing her kids. But the children will not be a part of her life going forward so she lost more than she gained. What custody arrangements are determined in the future is anyone’s guess, much has changed from the past.

It appears TA may’ve been fighting on her son’s behalf behind-the-scenes for his custody and now that she’s out of the picture we don’t know where he stands. But considering his drug or alcohol issues plus his new family, I think it’s doubtful he’d be given (or even want) full custody without having his mother as backup.

I’m certain the family court has looked to place the children in an environment where they’re removed from the harmful notoriety of their grandmother’s evil deeds. No doubt TA’s foolish actions ended up hurting them deeply. JMO
 
I don't know why the Prosecution would offer any one of them a plea deal, especially TA as she seems to be the catalyst for the whole thing. They've got all the evidence they need it sounds like from these geniuses, including statements from the daughter was it? It's hard to keep up with all the players here.

They conspired and brutally murdered two innocent women and buried them in a freezer 15 ft deep. I don't think it gets much more inhumane or twisted than that. :(

JMO

At the least, it’s often said prior to a defendant offering a guilty plea, an important role of the defense team is to ensure the charges which they’re ready to admit to were appropriately based in compliance with legal standards.

Discovery hasn’t been exchanged so IMO at this time it’s still too early in the process to assume they won’t change their pleas.

JMO
 
MOO. TA's son still has custody, unless he is sent to prison or a judge removes the kids from his care, he will still have the kids. That is a win for TA, in her screwed up mind. I know she wouldn't let him take the kids one time and LEO was called and sided with her. But, we have to remember TA was consumed with preventing VB to have or see the kids.
Agree about TA's thinking, but there will be a documented CPS case showing all of the allegations, contact with LE, etc. for all the parties involved.

My OP was that I hope the children are placed with loving caring family, not put into the system. :(
 
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I feel she still believes and supports the sovciv mindset and lifestyle. In my opinion she is only distancing herself to not be associated with the murders. She also does not want the state to be looking removing her children from her care if she had knowledge or participated in the planning of the murders.

I do not think that the sovereign citizen movement is high on her list of priorities right now. It destroyed her life and her kid's lives if it influenced Grice to murder.

She has more important things to worry about.

My guess is now that her husband can't work to support the family she moved to be with her family. She lost a bread winner and her partner to help with day to day child rearing. This is absolutely devastating. For the children it is like their father died, in a way.

If she was a widow she could get financial help from social security and life insurance. If she was divorced she could get child support and the children's father would be around to help raise them. If he died in an accident there could be an insurance payout or a settlement.

But her situation is unique ..... She's a single parent who gets a big fat zero. No safety net for this, just jail video calls which are far over-priced.
 
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I don't know why the Prosecution would offer any one of them a plea deal, especially TA as she seems to be the catalyst for the whole thing. They've got all the evidence they need it sounds like from these geniuses, including statements from the daughter was it? It's hard to keep up with all the players here.

They conspired and brutally murdered two innocent women and buried them in a freezer 15 ft deep. I don't think it gets much more inhumane or twisted than that. :(

JMO
When I say plea deal, I'm referring to no trial, life w/o parole vs death. I don't know about Oklahoma but we know this is very much the norm in Texas (a la Megan Fieramusca who went from DP to no trial, 55 yrs).
 
I had TA and TC pegged for private attorney. Early on Cole had indicated he would have a private attorney. Since they are owners of large tracts of land and business owners as well as TA being chairman of a political party and member of a hospital board -- well, those things seem to signal money. We also knew from the beginning, that it was Cora who would need a court-appointed attorney, as there was considerable discussion of how she felt with Cole saying he would hire an attorney and she had to take a public defender. Some even tied that to Cole's possible/perceived anger at Cora's daughter.

So now you're saying Cora may have a private attorney -- info new to me.

Now, of course, it seems TA has filed or is filing indigent paperwork for a court-appointed attorney.

I don't know how things will shake out as it seems to keep changing.

No one demands you make a certain income or asks your income for you to be on a hospital board or to chair a political party. Adams doing both does not indicate that she is wealthy.

If you employ alot of people in your community through your businesses or make donations to charities, etc... Then you might get asked personally to be involved in these voluntary positions, but mainly becaue you are well known in the community.

I believe their businesses are simple LLC's and not worth anything. Their land is not a liquid asset, it would have to be sold to generate any cash and the money first has to go to their creditors, I believe they took out loans. Also, it could take a long time to find qualified buyers and they need attorneys now.

Then you have liability....the victim's families are entitled to financial compensation from the killers of their loved ones. This is a whole nother legal issue.

2 Cents
 
In addition to Wrangler's rights, there is the matter of the other charges regarding the maternal side of the family. I have no doubt TA did everything in her power to make things seem as terrible as possible, and I have concerns regarding the local therapist she chose, but the charges don't just go away because of the murders.

And where is Wrangler now? is he still in rehab? in jail? or back at TA's house?
I am not aware of any outstanding "charges" against any of VB's family; no one has been formally charged with criminality to my knowledge. Do you have a link for such, by chance?
 
allegations and charges are very diferent. While TA may have made allegations against one or more of Veronica's family members, to my knowledge nobody on that side of the family has been charged with any crime that is pertinent to this case. JMO
 
allegations and charges are very diferent. While TA may have made allegations against one or more of Veronica's family members, to my knowledge nobody on that side of the family has been charged with any crime that is pertinent to this case. JMO

I agree and it’s surprising that the subject keeps gets mentioned as if there’s some validity to it, even though the source was from within ‘the group’. This may’ve been Plan A to remove custody from VB and if so it’s unfortunate it didn’t proceed because at least it would’ve been investigated. Perhaps it already had been outed as false and Cora failed to inform her daughter accordingly. Knowing everything we know, odds are the outcome would be (or was) “grandma told me to say that.” False allegations of SA in fierce custody battles are becoming all too common, even though it has to be extremely harmful to everyone concerned. IMO

“On April 3, 2024, OSBI interviewed the daughter of Cora Twombly and Coby White.

The daughter stated that she had overheard group conversations related to Butler not protecting her children from her brother….”
 
I agree and it’s surprising that the subject keeps gets mentioned as if there’s some validity to it, even though the source was from within ‘the group’. This may’ve been Plan A to remove custody from VB and if so it’s unfortunate it didn’t proceed because at least it would’ve been investigated. Perhaps it already had been outed as false and Cora failed to inform her daughter accordingly. Knowing everything we know, odds are the outcome would be (or was) “grandma told me to say that.” False allegations of SA in fierce custody battles are becoming all too common, even though it has to be extremely harmful to everyone concerned. IMO

“On April 3, 2024, OSBI interviewed the daughter of Cora Twombly and Coby White.

The daughter stated that she had overheard group conversations related to Butler not protecting her children from her brother….”
What are the chances that a plea deal may be reached with one of the perps to allow the prosecution to discover more of the details of the "Misfits"? They appear to be a small group but when that small group is involved in a premeditated murder scheme it behooves LE to determine how this group began and functions. JMO
 
When I say plea deal, I'm referring to no trial, life w/o parole vs death. I don't know about Oklahoma but we know this is very much the norm in Texas (a la Megan Fieramusca who went from DP to no trial, 55 yrs).
I gathered that and I know it makes financial and logical sense for the State, but I have an intense desire to see all involved sitting on Death Row wondering when their day might come.

What they did to these innocent women is beyond my comprehension, and yet they appear like it's just another day at the office. :mad:

JMO
 
No one demands you make a certain income or asks your income for you to be on a hospital board or to chair a political party. Adams doing both does not indicate that she is wealthy.

If you employ alot of people in your community through your businesses or make donations to charities, etc... Then you might get asked personally to be involved in these voluntary positions, but mainly becaue you are well known in the community.

I believe their businesses are simple LLC's and not worth anything. Their land is not a liquid asset, it would have to be sold to generate any cash and the money first has to go to their creditors, I believe they took out loans. Also, it could take a long time to find qualified buyers and they need attorneys now.

Then you have liability....the victim's families are entitled to financial compensation from the killers of their loved ones. This is a whole nother legal issue.

2 Cents
Agreed, the land where the vehicle was buried was being leased.

MOO
 
No one demands you make a certain income or asks your income for you to be on a hospital board or to chair a political party. Adams doing both does not indicate that she is wealthy.

If you employ alot of people in your community through your businesses or make donations to charities, etc... Then you might get asked personally to be involved in these voluntary positions, but mainly becaue you are well known in the community.

I believe their businesses are simple LLC's and not worth anything. Their land is not a liquid asset, it would have to be sold to generate any cash and the money first has to go to their creditors, I believe they took out loans. Also, it could take a long time to find qualified buyers and they need attorneys now.

Then you have liability....the victim's families are entitled to financial compensation from the killers of their loved ones. This is a whole nother legal issue.

2 Cents
The area's low population is one reason TA would be asked or accepted on the volunteer boards, she is also a lifetime resident and her family has been in the area for multiple generations. I recall it was mentioned TA's farm is in a trust, she won't be able to mortgage or use it as collateral. I am not sure about Twombleys, if they have mortgages or back taxes they cannot use their property either. My family calls it "land poor", your assets look good on paper. But, you cannot raise quick cash. You can sell out but you're right @Cool Cats you have to pay off the debts and hope you can sell quickly, that means lowering the price. I am sure their farm equipment is also mortgaged, we already saw they are being sued by the feed and seed store for several thousand dollars.

In Oklahoma, we often don't know if our neighbors are religious zealots or militia-minded, these types tend to keep it quiet and among themselves. It is not uncommon to have several small "cowboy churches" in every town, these are farm/ranch-minded Christian churches, and seldom lean towards such a radical way of thinking and actions. I can see where neighbors did not give their church a second thought. I can also say if the man who rents one of our pastures asks to do dirt work we wouldn't be concerned (of course if he came to us with a story about lying or not mentioning the work, we would go straight to the sheriff's office).
 

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