OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[kccorona]

TBH this is triggering one of my worst fears, something happening during a visitation (I’m a single mom myself). I’m so anxious about these two women.

good thoughts all around re: abandoned buildings and visibility in the area.

Your point re: their disappearance happening during a visitation is something I keep thinking about- these were clearly closely documented (per the previously-public court records) and monitored visits, in the setting of what seems to be a highly contentious custody situation.
The fact that whatever happened to these women was during a planned exchange/visitation (known, planned, and documented by attorneys, the court, family, etc) makes me think whoever is behind the incident either didn’t know (i.e. random attack, complete stranger), or didn’t care that the abandoned car would be quickly discovered and investigated- perhaps because to them, the cost of having to give the kids up is greater than that of being suspected in the disappearance.
My opinion only.

 

[Gae]

Has anyone done a drive-by in that location to see if there's still a LE presence? Are they checking wells, silos, barns in the area?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

Something that I thought about while watching STS cover this case with a fellow Okie…it’s flat out there, so apparently there’s not many places to hide these two women. But surely there are abandoned barns, agricultural buildings? Do we know if there are abandoned oil wells in the area? Grain silos?

TBH this is triggering one of my worst fears, something happening during a visitation (I’m a single mom myself). I’m so anxious about these two women.

I’m a lifelong Okie. You’re right. It is flat. Not all of OK is though, you should see southeastern OK. It’s beautiful. Guymon and Eva are up yonder in the panhandle. It’s dry and flat. You can find the oil wells here:

https://www.topozone.com/map-print/?lat=36.7619672&lon=-101.9068329&title=Four%20Corners%20Topo%20Map%20in%20Texas%20County%20Oklahoma

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I posted about this yesterday if you want to read it. The short version is no, LE does not have the authority to lock down public court records. Sealing a public court record requires a court order with specific legal findings required by law as to the reasons for sealing the record. Most of the time, individual documents are sealed, not the entire case. What you normally see is that the case is listed online with the docket history, notes on which pleadings are sealed, and the actual motion and court order on sealing those documents.

The appellate record from an appeal in the case is still available online, but the county record of the entire case is gone. This means that the action was taken at the county court clerk level.

I do not believe server issues are at play. The way this happened is entirely abnormal for Oklahoma court records.

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetDocument.aspx?ct=appellate&bc=1052968690&cn=DF-119621&fmt=pdf

 

[Gae]

https://www.oscn.net/dockets/GetDocument.aspx?ct=appellate&bc=1052968690&cn=DF-119621&fmt=pdf

That's the appeal, not the original case.

 

[Dargon335]

Four Corners, Texas County, Oklahoma - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Interesting... Surely this specific location (the intersection of 95 and 412) cannot be the actual "meet up spot". This is a very rural area, with perhaps one 'active' business and several buildings that appear to be deserted.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Logically this would be a very poor place to meet, especially given the tension and disagreements between both sides. Why would anyone willingly agree to this location? Could it be that the 'actual' drop off location is at a residence somewhere else in this general area?

 

[floridafreshsqueez]

Interesting... Surely this specific location (the intersection of 95 and 412) cannot be the actual "meet up spot". This is a very rural area, with perhaps one 'active' business and several buildings that appear to be deserted.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Logically this would be a very poor place to meet, especially given the tension and disagreements between both sides. Why would anyone willingly agree to this location? Could it be that the 'actual' drop off location is at a residence somewhere else in this general area?

Maybe whoever they were meeting feigned having car trouble?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Apparently the family believes they're under a "gag order", and not a simple request from LE to not speak to the media, which is unenforceable. Along with that, court files that are supposedly in the public domain have been removed, and the social media platforms of a lot of the paternal family are now vacated, as of yesterday. Who is this effort benefitting? Hm.

I don't blame the family members for not speaking to media or for deleting their social media accounts. I'd do exactly the same thing if it were my family being dissected on the internet.

As for the court records not being available, I'm glad. At the very least, those underage kids deserve to have someone protecting their privacy.

It would be at least nice to know though, where the kids are, if they're safe, etc. Sadly I don't think it's going to be good news for their mom, or the pastor's wife. What a nightmare of a case.

jmo

 

[whitelilac]

There are multiple well sites right in the vicinity of where the car was found.View attachment 494720

These wells...oil wells or water wells? Are they accessible to the public, are they secured 24 hours a day, with security people on their sites?
Seems to me they ought to be checked out.

 

[Valhall]

These wells...oil wells or water wells? Are they accessible to the public, are they secured 24 hours a day, with security people on their sites?
Seems to me they ought to be checked out.

Oil or natural gas wells. No, they are not secured with people on site. They will typically either have a locking gate or no gate at all and have no trespassing signs, but even if they have a locking gate it is just a simple single swing pipe configuration that you can easily crawl under. Most don't even have gates, just cattle guards.

 

[Valhall]

Here, this is the typical single pole swing gate used at most production sites that are gated (majority aren't). This is a well site just down the road from me.

 

[whitelilac]

Here, this is the typical single pole swing gate used at most production sites that are gated (majority aren't). This is a well site just down the road from me. View attachment 494735

Do you live in the area? If so are you seeing any activity, any searching of these well sites?

 

[AugustWest]

Interesting... Surely this specific location (the intersection of 95 and 412) cannot be the actual "meet up spot". This is a very rural area, with perhaps one 'active' business and several buildings that appear to be deserted.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Logically this would be a very poor place to meet, especially given the tension and disagreements between both sides. Why would anyone willingly agree to this location? Could it be that the 'actual' drop off location is at a residence somewhere else in this general area?

@Dargon335 I actually addressed this yesterday in the following post:

The 11-30-2023 Order entered by the Court specifies Four Corners as the pickup location. See: OSCN Case Details

The link is now dead, but in that Order a pickup spot of Four Corners was specified as the normal pickup spot. Hope this helps.

 

[Valhall]

Do you live in the area? If so are you seeing any activity, any searching of these well sites?

I live in central Oklahoma, so I'm about 5 hours from the Panhandle. Yesterday there was a low-flying chopper (1000 ft altitude maybe?) that circled slowly in a very localized area here, but I can't imagine it was connected with this case.

 

[Dargon335]

@AugustWest Thank you for confirming. I read your earlier posting that Four Corners was the specific meeting spot. However after looking at this area on GoogleMaps it seems very odd that anyone involved in a custody dispute would agree to meet there. It appears little more than a dusty, rural intersection. No gas station, no coffee shop, nothing...

Very curious IMO.

 

[AugustWest]

@AugustWest Thank you for confirming. I read your earlier posting that Four Corners was the specific meeting spot. However after looking at this area on GoogleMaps it seems very odd that anyone involved in a custody dispute would agree to meet there. It appears little more than a dusty, rural intersection. No gas station, no coffee shop, nothing...

Very curious IMO.

I suspect (no inside info) that the parties agreed to that area as the pickup point during that court appearance. <modsnip: sleuthing non POI>It was probably just a convenient halfway point. I certainly wish the drop off would have been done in front of a police station, busy store, etc...

 

[Valhall]

I have a feeling they were taken some where in the car and the car brought back and abandoned. There is something that the OSBI agent kind of slipped on when he was in that interview that he tried not to say much of nothing in. He made the statement something like this "we need to verify who was in that car". And I immediately took it as "who ELSE was in that car".

 

[MollyHarps]

Hi All,

I’ve just caught up on this thread - firstly, I hope the women return safely to their loved ones.. I have my concerns though. Cases like these when there’s an upcoming court case rarely have a happy ending.

The police are obviously keeping their cards close to their chests - the lack of information in the media feels odd - I wonder if LE possibly think both or one of these women might still be alive and are being held hostage? If this is the case they might be treading carefully and not wanting to spook somebody by it becoming a huge press story.

 

[afitzy]

I posted about this yesterday if you want to read it. The short version is no, LE does not have the authority to lock down public court records. Sealing a public court record requires a court order with specific legal findings required by law as to the reasons for sealing the record. Most of the time, individual documents are sealed, not the entire case. What you normally see is that the case is listed online with the docket history, notes on which pleadings are sealed, and the actual motion and court order on sealing those documents.

The appellate record from an appeal in the case is still available online, but the county record of the entire case is gone. This means that the action was taken at the county court clerk level.

I do not believe server issues are at play. The way this happened is entirely abnormal for Oklahoma court records.

Yes, entire situation was odd as the records were visible for a period of time, clearly not any noted as sealed that I saw before access was shut down, although some documents were filed with Clerk and not available online which I didn't understand but perhaps if minor children are involved the documents are not placed online? IDK.

 

[imstilla.grandma]

I live in central Oklahoma, so I'm about 5 hours from the Panhandle. Yesterday there was a low-flying chopper (1000 ft altitude maybe?) that circled slowly in a very localized area here, but I can't imagine it was connected with this case.

I’m central OK also. Yesterday I saw a military helicopter flying low too.