OK OK, Veronica Butler 27 & Jilian Kelley 39, Vehicle Abandoned, Texas County, 30 Mar 2024

[Teche]

This court document is interesting. Without the actual transcription from the trial, we're only reading one side of the story though. Attorneys cherry-pick testimony and embellish "stories" to help their clients win. There's a reason dad wasn't given physical custody, IMO.

Where did dad find the time to abuse substances??

 

[Teche]

No, these crops are not paddy based. As a trivia side note, rice can also be grown "dry" as well.

Dry rice, brown rice or white rice aside, the area in question is far too dry to support any kind of paddy based agriculture.

In Louisiana, our rice is grown in water. Our farmers have lots of water wells and irrigation from waterways. In the off-season, the rice fields are used crawfish ponds. It’s a huge cash crop that doesn't have to be shipped.

 

[NDreu]

Grandmother does not have legal custody. Her son does, and he left the kids off at her house. She calls herself a guardian.

Its interesting imo to see the responses from various folks in Court when dealing with a contentious case be it custody or divorce etc.

Some folks choose to work the best they can with the Judge and the existing laws and others for whatever reason seem to instead deny the legitimacy of the US Legal System when it doesn't for whatever reason agree with what they happen to want at a particular moment in time. We saw this in tragic comedy in the Daryl Brooks trial. But, others take this POV quite seriously and sometimes with tragic consequences.

This POV about folks questioning the legitimacy of the US Legal System is quite a multifaceted topic imo and quite possibly might very well have some relevancy to what all we are seeing in this most likely tragic case.


MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The two women were traveling to pick up Butler’s 6-year-old daughter and 8-year-old son. The children were living with their biological father’s mother. Butler was reportedly involved in a custody dispute with the father of her children, Wrangler Cole Rickman, Inside Edition reported. Rickman had been released from prison, where he was serving a sentence for possession of a firearm, just a week before the women went missing. But Lauren Conlin, an independent journalist, spoke to Rickman’s grandmother who said Rickman had been released from prison and ordered to go to rehab on the same day. She said Rickman was in rehab when the women disappeared.

“He [Rickman] was checked into rehab on the 22nd- 30 days no contact and cannot leave any outings from the facility for 30 days, and has to be there for six months. OSBI confirmed he was there,” the grandmother said, Conlin posted on X.

The grandmother also told Conlin that Butler’s children were safe.

Two Kansas Moms Disappeared While Picking Up Kids In Oklahoma. Foul Play Is Suspected. | The Daily Wire

www.dailywire.com

 

[CuriousCricket]

The two women were traveling to pick up Butler’s 6-year-old daughter and 8-year-old son. But Lauren Conlin, an independent journalist, spoke to Rickman’s grandmother who said Rickman had been released from prison and ordered to go to rehab on the same day. She said Rickman was in rehab when the women disappeared.

“He [Rickman] was checked into rehab on the 22nd- 30 days no contact and cannot leave any outings from the facility for 30 days, and has to be there for six months. OSBI confirmed he was there,” the grandmother said, Conlin posted on X.

2 points:
1. Wonder if this was the first time Veronica had picked the children up for an outing beyond the grandmother's home? Had the other visitations been in her home?

2. Ordinarily, I would have wondered how tight security was at the rehab. Is he on lock down? Could he have possibly slipped out and back in without being caught? However, since this was a mid-morning incident, surely, Rickman must have been accounted for in rehab activities?

 

[StarRemy8]

2 points:
1. Wonder if this was the first time Veronica had picked the children up for an outing beyond the grandmother's home? Had the other visitations been in her home?

2. Ordinarily, I would have wondered how tight security was at the rehab. Is he on lock down? Could he have possibly slipped out and back in without being caught? However, since this was a mid-morning incident, surely, Rickman must have been accounted for in rehab activities?

Unlike a jail/prison you are allowed to leave court-mandated rehab facilities at any point of your stay but they just need to report that to courts. Depending on the judge this could be a slap on the wrist/fine up to being arrested so while the repercussions are definitely risky one can leave a rehab facility at any time whether there on the own accord or court-ordered.

 

[Gae]

I wouldn't be surprised if we find out the biological father wasn't in on this at all.

 

[doublestop]

2 points:
1. Wonder if this was the first time Veronica had picked the children up for an outing beyond the grandmother's home? Had the other visitations been in her home?

2. Ordinarily, I would have wondered how tight security was at the rehab. Is he on lock down? Could he have possibly slipped out and back in without being caught? However, since this was a mid-morning incident, surely, Rickman must have been accounted for in rehab activities?

He's supposedly in rehab in Oklahoma City. That's a long way from where this happened. Five hours or more. So 10 hours round trip plus whatever he would do there.

 

[tlcya]

so much hink and stink with this case. MOO JMO this disappearance is a direct result of the custody issue. Someone has made sure the visitation did not go off as planned.

 

[NDreu]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>
But, I’ve been baffled to not see any public call for dash cam footage from truckers as most of those plants run 24/7. But come to think of it LE didnt even post the car picture so perhaps they know exactly what happened and who they are looking for? Moo

 

[NDreu]

He's supposedly in rehab in Oklahoma City. That's a long way from where this happened. Five hours or more. So 10 hours round trip plus whatever he would do there.

Interesting that we are over a week into the investigation and no update on location of the person in rehab or his cooperation with the investigation.

Curious….

 

[Ontario Mom]

Interesting that we are over a week into the investigation and no update on location of the person in rehab or his cooperation with the investigation.

Curious….

LE doesn't owe the public any kind of update about people the public assumes are suspects in an investigation.
In this awful case, no one has been named a suspect or POI yet, but when they are, LE will share that with the public.

jmo

 

[tlcya]

in a contentious custody situation it isn't just parents who can get overly zealous in their pursuit of getting things decided in a way that most benefits their own wishes MOO JMO

 

[Cryptic]

In Louisiana, our rice is grown in water. Our farmers have lots of water wells and irrigation from waterways. In the off-season, the rice fields are used crawfish ponds. It’s a huge cash crop that doesn't have to be shipped.

I bet the crawfish then fertilize the paddies during the rice "off season". I always liked dropping down from the piney hills part of Louisiana to the either the south or the Delta and seeing the rice and sugar cane farms.

 

[Cassady]

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/texascountyoklahoma/PST045223

There are less than 21000 people in Texas County, OK.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/mortoncountykansas,texascountyoklahoma/PST045223

Morton County, KS has less than 3000 people.

https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/stevenscountykansas,mortoncountykansas,texascountyoklahoma/PST045223

Stevens County, KS has slightly more than 5000 people.

So the entire area has less than 30,000 people between the three counties, which cover a decent geographical area.

If you are not from these rural ag areas, it is hard to explain the culture. There are literally more heads of livestock then people. You are either from the area or an outsider. Everyone knows everyone and their business. Many people open carry firearms. Vehicles not from the area would be noticed by the locals.

Additionally, most of the land is privately owned, except for the Cimarron, Commanche, and Rita Blanca National Grasslands. The Cimarron is the closest to where the car was found and would seem like an obvious place to search(or look for circling birds)...IMO

 

[Chimera]

I'm concerned that if foul play has indeed happened and they're never found; will the person(s) responsible face justice.
There have been 'no body' cases in the past, but iirc, they're difficult to prosecute.
Otoh, will the perp hold out for a plea deal in exchange for them ?

Wishing they were somehow alive, but LE's actions aren't leaning in that direction.
Omo.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Do we know who owns the large pig farm on the area. I know it has been mentioned as a place to search, here in the thread...but I'm hoping someone familiar with the area can tell us more.

 

[MollyHarps]

Just caught up on this thread

The fact that the children’s father was in rehab many hours away has certainly made me look at the case differently.

Does anyone know if it’s been released whether the Grandma tried to contact Veronica when she didn’t turn up? I would have expected at least a phone call to check why she hadn’t arrived.

Do we know if the children are still in grandmas care whilst this investigation is ongoing? Or have they been placed elsewhere?

 

[Leilei]

Just caught up on this thread

The fact that the children’s father was in rehab many hours away has certainly made me look at the case differently.

Does anyone know if it’s been released whether the Grandma tried to contact Veronica when she didn’t turn up? I would have expected at least a phone call to check why she hadn’t arrived.

Do we know if the children are still in grandmas care whilst this investigation is ongoing? Or have they been placed elsewhere?

Pretty much total silence as far as the children go, and nothing about whether or not there was any communication with the grandmother that morning.

 

[Ksfarmer8]

Just caught up on this thread

The fact that the children’s father was in rehab many hours away has certainly made me look at the case differently.

Does anyone know if it’s been released whether the Grandma tried to contact Veronica when she didn’t turn up? I would have expected at least a phone call to check why she hadn’t arrived.

Do we know if the children are still in grandmas care whilst this investigation is ongoing? Or have they been placed elsewhere?

Good questions but LE has been tight lipped so we really don't know the answers.
It has been mentioned by others that LE probably has a good idea of the perp or perps but need proof before filing charges.
Seems quite obvious who would "benefit" if Veronica was out of the way and yet it is plausible that someone else thought they were doing others a favor by removing her.
JMO