Omaha double murder

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YellowDog, Great post! I don't think the killer knew Shirlee was there either and she ended up being a casualty in this whole evil scheme.

The idea of a full face mask should really be considered. Remember Tuba's chart analysis stated the perp spent alot of time on his disguise? Our WS astros have been amazingly accurate in their forensic astrology on every case. I have great respect for them in charting these heinous crimes.

Whatever it was that Tom knew was ruinous or perverse enough that someone was willing to pay to have him silenced, IMO.
 
But, wouldn't such a mask be evident up close? One of these people opened the door to him. Not knowing what if any security system they had in place it's possible but to me doubtful.
I think if Tuba is right on this it's more likely he may have put on makeup etc to darken his face or maybe colored his hair.
 
I definately feel he used a disguise of some kind. Maybe the guy in the car used a disguise because he knew he would be recognized. Perhaps he was local yet driving the car with the out of state plate. The auto could have belonged to whoever was hiding out waiting for this person to arrive. Does this make sense? I feel like I am rambling.

It would make more sense for someone local to wear a disguise and drive an out of state vehicle to throw everyone off. Which once again leads me to believe there was an accomplice.
 
Well, I've seen some of those full head masks that look pretty real at least from a few feet away. The killer may have forced his way in the minute the door was opened.
The idea of a disguise using make-up could be possible as well as the long topcoat to cover his build. It could easily have been a rental car picked up in some nearby city, used for the murder and then driven back to that city to turn it in.
 
That is true about the masks these days, YellowDog. But with makeup and haircolor, a complete tranformation takes place. I worked as a makeup artist on a movie one summer years ago and was amazed at the tricks I learned. (It was a horror movie, BTW).

During the summer of '05 I was on crutches and lived in an upstairs apt. so I was basically housebound. So I was bored and 'got a wild hair' and bought a bottle of hair dye that was on the other end of the spectrum from my original color and cut it really short. (It had always been shoulder length) When I re-emergered into the the public, no one recognized me. I have never seen so many double takes in all my life! Friends told me that my eyes became much more intense and penetrating. And also that the shorter hairstyle made my features appear sharper! I never noticed these changes but everybody else sure did! It was an interesting experiment to say the least!

Sorry for the (sort of) OT post by recounting the personal example but I felt it was relevant to the discussion.

matilda
 
Prior to starting this thread I had one on the CCI site, it ran to two pages, I had not posted on it since last Fall. I was going back now and then to see if anyone else was.
Well, that thread has vanished. If anyone is familiar with that site, is this normal for a thread with no new posts for awhile? I cannot contact anyone with that site using the links on the home page.
I am not thinking conspiracy here, rather maybe they just have a policy of pulling threads with no recent activity, still it seems odd, no trace of it at all. Someone had sent a post with pictures of all the US license plates that I found useful from time to time. I cannot puill it up via search, it's like it never existed. Wierd.
CCI doesn't hold a candle to WS, still it's odd.
 
Syttende said:
I found this case in FBI.gov's Seeking Information page, and it has bothered me since.

Snick1946's theories about Thomas being the target b/c of online activities, video games, etc. ARE logical, but I would be surprised if they were true. Thomas sounds like a smart kid and with all the warnings out there, why would he allow an internet stranger into his home, especially one that looks so suspicious? What would he be doing with an 18+ adult male? On video games where players contact each other like Left 4 Dead and WoW, young kids are usually ridiculed. I don't think he would have been taken seriously, certainly not to the extent where someone would go out of their way to visit him.

However the bit about his video game being on 'pause' stuck with me. My boyfriend loves his video games and it is so hard to tear him away from them 99% of the time. I'm assuming Thomas is similar, since most boys who enjoy video games that I've known are also like that. Maybe he got up to use the phone or bathroom or to get a snack and ran into the assailant? Okay, that's not likely, either, since I'm guessing they have a bathroom in the basement area. He definitely must have been called up there somehow.

The murderer reads to me as someone who was attempting to carry out a 'professional' murder for hire, but was an amateur and didn't know how to properly execute a murder. The scorned medical student theory has probably been exhausted, but I feel like it has some credibility to it. I also think he was probably after the parents, and misjudged the time they arrived home or simply didn't know any better.

sorry about the ramblings. Like I said, this case and many others bother me. From what I've read, Thomas seemed like such a bright, handsome kid... someone that could have grown up to follow in the footsteps of his successful parents. So tragic.
Click to expand...

Something about Thomas that stuck with me.
According to his school's website he was a runner up in the National Geographic Society Geography bee to represent his school. That was as a sixth grader. My son represented his middle school recently and his teacher told us he was the first seventh grader to do so in her memory. Thomas came close for his school as a sixth grader. He was one hell of a smart kid.
The county assessor site has specs for the house of there being 2 1/2 bathrooms. I'd assume one maybe two upstairs and one maybe off the kitchen. Most of those houses were built in the 1920's and dont have them in the basement so yes maybe he did come up to go to the bathroom. We may never know.
So very sad.
 
Snick1946 said:
Prior to starting this thread I had one on the CCI site, it ran to two pages, I had not posted on it since last Fall. I was going back now and then to see if anyone else was.
Well, that thread has vanished. If anyone is familiar with that site, is this normal for a thread with no new posts for awhile? I cannot contact anyone with that site using the links on the home page.
I am not thinking conspiracy here, rather maybe they just have a policy of pulling threads with no recent activity, still it seems odd, no trace of it at all. Someone had sent a post with pictures of all the US license plates that I found useful from time to time. I cannot puill it up via search, it's like it never existed. Wierd.
CCI doesn't hold a candle to WS, still it's odd.
Click to expand...

Here's a link to LP from all fifty states. Funny ... I visited this site today. We had a theft at work, were able to catch the vehicle on a security camera, his plate was blurred but we could still read the numbers on his plate. While I was writing it down and downloading the frames, I noticed it was all numerical, no alpha. In Cali we have alpha and numerical, so knew it was out of state.

http://c2.com/~ward/plates/table.cgi?width=100,columns=6
 
The fact that the video game was on pause just keeps repeating in my thoughts. You all have posted a couple of theories; Heard a noise, maybe the HK screaming and came up to see what was happening. Came up to use the bathroom. HK called him up to speak to the man she let in the door. All of them sound plausible.

I was a little skeptical of the reports from the neighbor, went back and re-read, three neighbors confirmed seeing the man and/or the car, so guess that portion of the story is confirmed. They all seemed to see the same thing.

So we are left with motive. It was reported that the driver of the car seemed unfamiliar with the neighborhood and was searching for the addy, so it would seem he had not been there before, demonstrates a lack of planning. If it was a professional or hired killer, wouldn't he have taken the time to drive by the house and familiarize himself with the neighborhood and house? The black coat and briefcase seems to imply he was portraying himself in a professional manner. This would be also be a way to get himself in the door and also not arouse attention from any onlookers. If he found himself in a situation where he had to interrupt his plan, he could easily do so by saying "Oh sorry, I have the wrong house and leave".

I doubt he knew the HK would be there, but seemed to know what time T would be home and that the parents would not be there. Did he tell the HK he was a teacher or other representative from T's school or he had a meeting with one of the parents? She says "no the parents are not home" and goes to ask T if he knows anything, then as she walked down the hallway towards the basement, pulls the knife from under the coat and attacks her. T hears something, puts the game on pause and comes up the stairs and is attacked himself.

If indeed a knife was left in his body, that would seem to be a message and in my mind indicates T was intended victim and HK was in the wrong place at wrong time. Where did we get the info on the knife, is it confirmed? I still lean towards a link back to the parents and their profession, seems vengeful to target such a young man. The comments about T knowing something that placed him in danger or the link to gaming doesn't make sense to me. I would think LE would have picked up on any clues from his computer if he was involved in any online dark activities. He was a smart kid, family was above average socioeconomically, seemed to be well liked by his peers and was not really old enough to be into much trouble, pretty low risk.

Typed as I thought so forgive the jumping around, have more thoughts but it's late and I am cross-eyed, pick this up tomorrow.
 
Excellent post, Knox! I tend to agree with everything you said.

Wow, I never considered that the neighbors descriptions may be fabricated or off somehow. Great thinking outside of the box, Snick! Now that you mention it, the description of the ominous stranger -- "olive skin" "dark hair" "dark clothes" "carrying a briefcase" -- do kind of sound like modern day descriptions of the 'shaggy haired stranger'. I've read on this thread that there were multiple witnesses who saw this guy. If the house is shaded by trees, and one would have to be looking directly at the house in order to see someone enter and exit, this makes it even more suspicious, as Snick said. How many people stare directly into their neighbors' yards?

Then again, it may be that kind of neighborhood, where an unfamiliar vehicle is immediately noticed and anyone who doesn't belong there is watched. I have read on this thread that there were multiple neighbor witnesses to this guy. If they are fabricating this story, what could more than one person in the neighborhood have against Thomas, or the Hunters?

I really, really wish we could find out for sure if the knives used to stab the victims were brought from outside, or belonged to the Hunters. This would point to whether the murder was premeditated or not.

This is just an insane case. And I just find it strange that we never read about it in the news anymore, and that it seems like the Hunter family is trying to limit the publicity surrounding the murder. If I had a son and he was murdered, along with my housekeeper, I'd make it my life's work to keep the story in the news and beg the public for information until the perpetrator was caught. Then again I could be wrong about the Hunters. Maybe they are trying to get publicity for the case, and the news just isn't picking up on the story for some reason?

I guess there are only so many options. Let's see here. Either
a) the housekeeper was targeted
b) Thomas was targeted
c) one or both of the parents were targeted
and
d) the perpetrator murdered the "wrong" people, or got the wrong house entirely

I THINK we can eliminate the housekeeper as being the target because she wasn't even supposed to be there that day, and again, why would the killer go for her in the fancy private home of her employers in a quiet residential neighborhood? If Thomas was the target, why? Herein I agree with most of you that the neighbors, as well as Thomas's teachers and peers need to be re-interviewed more closely. If the parents were the targets, the possibilities are endless. It could have something to do with their being doctors. It could also be something else, although I don't know what that something else could be unless we have information on the parents' pasts, and any enemies they may have made for whatever reason.

And finally, the video game being on pause: I think it points to Thomas being in the basement playing video games when the perpetrator arrived, and him hearing a scuffle or disturbance or scream from upstairs and running up to see what was going on. Maybe he would have just abandoned the game, instead of taking the time to press pause, but I tend to think the disturbance upstairs initially appeared innocent to Thomas, and he pressed pause reflexively and ran up onto the ground floor. By the time he got upstairs, the housekeeper was probably already on the ground and incapacitated, and the killer went for Thomas as soon as he appeared at the top of the stairs.

I can't stop thinking about this case. I keep thinking if I continue to run over the facts in my mind something will click eventually. I just wish we had access to a few more pieces of vital information!
 
I don't mean to hijack this thread, but does anyone here remember the Groene case in Idaho? 3 people were murdered in their home in a safe area, and the two little kids were kidnapped by a sex offender. The little girl was later found alive, the little boy was killed, sadly. When the murders and the kids' disappearances were initially discovered, everyone thought it had something to do with the father, or since the mother and her boyfriend were recreational meth users, that it was drug-related. When the kids were found with a sex offender, everyone was just in shock. The police and investigators hadn't even really considered that a sex offender would murder 3 people just to get to 2 children.

Hang in there! I do have a point here! What if the murderer was some kind of sexual predator, and Thomas was targeted? Since Thomas was usually alone after school, and the housekeeper was not supposed to be there, this would fit. The perp brings knives simply to scare Thomas, or maybe he didn't know exactly what he was going to do. He doesn't expect to see the housekeeper, so he decides to just kill her, and then go for Thomas. Thomas resists, or starts screaming, or attacking the perp in order to defend himself, and things get out of hand. Two people are murdered, and the killer flees, his original plan gone up in flames. Or maybe he did intend to murder Thomas after abusing him, and again, the housekeeper was murdered first just to 'get her out of the way'. We probably would have heard about it if there was any evidence Thomas had been sexually assaulted, but maybe it didn't go as far as rape, or the plan just went awry, etc. Maybe LE needs to take a close look at any adults Thomas would have had contact with - at the gym, sports games, any lessons he took, teachers, friends' parents or older siblings or extended families, etc.

Sorry for the sloppy writing! Still trying to work this theory out in my mind.
 
Wow! You all were burning the candle til the wee hours of the morning! Great sleuthing and theories Knox and Mia!

Mia, I think a child predator or pedophile is a definate possibility. I beleive Snick had posted about this somewhere and questioned if perhaps Tom had engaged willingly in sexual activity with someone the first time but then withdrew from any future activity which angered the perp. I strongly feel that during puberty, a child's first sexual exploration occurs with a same sex friend. The curiosity is a natural occurance and it is more comfortable for a youth experiment to some degree with a person they trust. I think females own up to it later in life whereas males don't talk about it because of the stigma. Now I am in no way questioning Tom's sexuality or insinuating he was homosexual. Heck, he was probably just beginning to experience the natural urges that one feels during puberty. Tom seemed to be mature for his age from what I've read about him. Also he had three older brothers and was the only child at home with the Hunter's so what I infer is that he was comfortable with adults.

Now to take it a step further........If Tom had an older friend, mentor, coach, teacher, friend of one of the brothers that he spent time with, someone could have taken advantage of Tom during a time when his curiosity was naturally occuring.

I wonder also if Tom ever spent any time with the Drs. Hunter at work. Did he have any private tutors?......take piano lessons, belong to a scout troup, sing in a choir, go to church? There's is just so much we don't know. We DO know he was funny, smart, and played basketball.

I also wish we had a floor plan of the house so that we could better determine how things went down that fateful day. Tom's body was found in the dining room and Shirlee's body was found in the hallway. I would assume the DR would be located in the front of the house, considering the period in which it was built. So if Shirlee was killed first and Tom heard something up stairs, did he pass her body, and was running toward the front door to try and get away?

Gosh this case is maddening! Just typing and thinking.....
 
~respectfully snipped from Knox's post #392~
Where did we get the info on the knife, is it confirmed?

Knox, I don't think it has been confirmed that the knives were left in the bodies. It is a rumor at this point however some inferred that was the case by the wording in one of the news articles which stated "knives were 'recovered' from the scene" instead of "knives were 'discovered' at the scene". Hope this clears up how some of us came to that conclusion.

Great post, BTW!
 
waltzingmatilda said:
Wow! You all were burning the candle til the wee hours of the morning! Great sleuthing and theories Knox and Mia!

Mia, I think a child predator or pedophile is a definate possibility. I beleive Snick had posted about this somewhere and questioned if perhaps Tom had engaged willingly in sexual activity with someone the first time but then withdrew from any future activity which angered the perp. I strongly feel that during puberty, a child's first sexual exploration occurs with a same sex friend. The curiosity is a natural occurance and it is more comfortable for a youth experiment to some degree with a person they trust. I think females own up to it later in life whereas males don't talk about it because of the stigma. Now I am in no way questioning Tom's sexuality or insinuating he was homosexual. Heck, he was probably just beginning to experience the natural urges that one feels during puberty. Tom seemed to be mature for his age from what I've read about him. Also he had three older brothers and was the only child at home with the Hunter's so what I infer is that he was comfortable with adults.

Now to take it a step further........If Tom had an older friend, mentor, coach, teacher, friend of one of the brothers that he spent time with, someone could have taken advantage of Tom during a time when his curiosity was naturally occuring.

I wonder also if Tom ever spent any time with the Drs. Hunter at work. Did he have any private tutors?......take piano lessons, belong to a scout troup, sing in a choir, go to church? There's is just so much we don't know. We DO know he was funny, smart, and played basketball.

I also wish we had a floor plan of the house so that we could better determine how things went down that fateful day. Tom's body was found in the dining room and Shirlee's body was found in the hallway. I would assume the DR would be located in the front of the house, considering the period in which it was built. So if Shirlee was killed first and Tom heard something up stairs, did he pass her body, and was running toward the front door to try and get away?

Gosh this case is maddening! Just typing and thinking.....
Click to expand...

Mia your posts are very thought provoking, great job!

waltzingmatilda you made a very convincing case in this post for a SP involvement. As I was reading that last published interview with the Father I was struck by this portion "As for Tom's big brothers, Dr. Hunter tells me every time they see a Honda CRV, like the one seen in the neighborhood that day, they call home wondering".
http://www.kmtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=9854977

Does this mean the older brothers still live close to the parents? How old are they? How many years have they not lived in the home? Did they perhaps have a friend ...

I like Snick's train of thought on the neighbors, something bothers me there. Maybe there was a car in the neighborhood that day, but who saw the man enter and leave and made that statement. Could a neighbor be the killer? The recent case of the Mother in Utah... she was killed in the home and it was the son of her friend/neighbor. We all know how faulty eye witness statements can be. One neighbor makes a statement as they are gathered outside the home in an extremely emotionally charged atmosphere and several others jump on the bandwagon trying to be helpful to LE. Prob not, but just throwing that out there :twocents:

Wondering if Snick would mind if someone posted a thread with all the news links, confirmed and rumored facts listed separately? Since I am a newbie I have a little trouble tracking all the facts. What's your secret veteran sleuthers? If the above request is considered lazy, please be easy on me, lol.

Is the Feb. 16, 2009 Action News interview with the Father the last news article published? Could we individually send an email to the reporter asking if there are any updates on the case, is that done?
 
One thing I HAVE learned ... I copy my posts before I hit the "post quick reply" button. I have typed some looooong posts only to have them disappear because I was logged out. Anybody else have that problem? It's maddening!!!
 
Thanks Knox!

the other Hunter Boys ages are in an article somewhere on this thread. They are all in their 20's and are a year older now than the ages quoted. I will look for the link. As far as the brothers whereabouts....I have done some sleuthing but have no proof yet that my findings are correct so I'll hold off on commenting about that for now.

As far as a separate thread for links, we would need permission from Tricia or a mod. But I can take a run thru this threadmill and copy/paste all the links we have and bring them forward for reference purposes. I remember what it is like being a newbie! LOL! And we do need to get you all caught up so I'll work on it today.

matilda
 
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