Omaha double murder

[YellowDog]

Yes, it could even have been something as simple as one of Tom's friends dropping by unexpectedly and they got into an argument over something. Sometimes the answer is right before our eyes and we do tend to make things too complicated.

 

[Snick1946]

Yes, it could even have been something as simple as one of Tom's friends dropping by unexpectedly and they got into an argument over something. Sometimes the answer is right before our eyes and we do tend to make things too complicated.

I wonder if Tom had any classmates or friends in his neighborhood that dropped in after school and if they were all vetted by LE? It'd be hard for me to believe that something this sophisicated could have been carried off by an 11 to 15 year old kid but stranger things have happened. If the knives came from the kitchen and Tom was found in the DR then the perp had to have been in the kitchen at some point. Were they talking something over? If Ms Sherman was running the vaccum which she may have been she wouldn't have heard the ruckus.
This brings me back to my statement way back at the beginning that the POI sketch looked like possibly a teen. If a minor did carry this off that'd explain why LE has not been able to turn much- some kid is scared, keeping this to himself and his parents don't even know.
One angle- Tom was in his first year of Middle school at King Science. He possibly attended Dundee elementary through grade 5. He may have had friends from his prior school that still came over; yeah this is way out of the box- but maybe we need to go there to get to the truth.
One other thing, I understand LE pulled the hard drives on the Hunters' computers and found nothing to indicate threats or anything illicit. Was there evidence of Tom doing any online gaming? Even if it all looks innocent IMO they need to check out the kids/persons he was interacting with!

 

[SDkid]

I know about the murders you are talking about in 1992. One of the girl's Dad is a very good friend of my sister. He was devastated. We all were.

Your theory is a good one.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hello all! I'm back from vaca. Wow! You guys are doing great work on this case! I saw some links and pics that I had not seen before which I found thought provoking. Thanks to all of you sleuths for the valuable input and welcome to you new sleuths on the board!

When I read the links to find your physician (Thanks dear Knox) I noticed that Dr. Claire Hunter included a bio and her titles in her posting (BTW, she is very attractive and reminds me of Katie Couric). However, Dr. Bill Hunter did not have a bio or any titles listed. Is he not the program director for the pathology department at Creighton? I know I read somewhere that he was director of a dept but there was no mention of it. Wouldn't that be something important to include? If he no longer has this title then why? Did he step down? Was he demoted? These questions are important to me because of Tuba's charts showing a connection to schools. We just don't know which one....Creighton or King Science or some unknown school?

Another thing that took be aback was learning that Tom was in Hawaii 1 month before he was murdered (Thnks for the KETV link Shanm132) and Dr. Claire Hunter was in Hawaii the date of the murders. This tidbit led me to questions about infidelity in the marraige. If either of the Drs. were engaged in an extra marital affair and Tom discovered this, that other person could have ordered a hit on Tom unbeknownst to the other party. The person could have been married with alot at stake if something like this were revealed. I wonder if Tom visited Hawaii a month before he was murdered with both his parents or only one. This is a difficult subject to broach but one that should be sleuthed IMO.

Do other homes in the neighborhood have surveillence, cameras, security systems? Would it be a common practice for citizens in this upper class neighborhood to have security? I wonder if the Hunter's have had one installed since the murders.

The man seen cutting through yards without the neighbors being concerned leads me to ask why. Are door to door salesmen common in this neighborhood? Do Jesuits go visiting door to door like the Jehovah's Witnesses? Did Tom have friends who would walk to his house for a visit? I may be mistaken but this particular neighborhood doesn't appear to be the type where kids play wiffle ball under the streetlight at dusk.

If the knives indeed came from the Hunter home, it leads me to believe the perp was familar with the residence. Hopefully LE has checked out any visitors to the home in the months prior to the murders. I also considered that the perp probably did bring knive(s) and used them(it) to commit the murders. He had time after the murders were committed to locate the Hunter's own kitchen knives to leave at the scene. I'm sure the autopsy results show the answers as to how many knives were used on each victim.

Or, if this was a hit, and whoever ordered the hit was familiar with the residence, then the location of the knives was probably included in the hitman's instructions.

Sorry so long but after 3 1/2 weeks away I am anxious to build on all the wonderful ideas you all have shared.

It's great to be back. I missed you all! :blowkiss:

wm

OT - Snick I am glad that you are on the road to recovery. Continue to rest and here is some recommended reading for you (and everyone else, too)

I read 2 great books while on vaca. The Innocent Man by John Grisham was excellent and his first work of a True Crime story.

Act of Treason a thriller by Vince Flynn was a good read (a bit unbelieveable) that I found interesting since President Obama visited Yellowstone the day after I visited.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Welcome Home Dear Matilda ... We missed your thought provoking posts :blowkiss:

Great thought Matilida ... Snip; Another thing that took be aback was learning that Tom was in Hawaii 1 month before he was murdered (Thnks for the KETV link Shanm132) and Dr. Claire Hunter was in Hawaii the date of the murders. This tidbit led me to questions about infidelity in the marraige. If either of the Drs. were engaged in an extra marital affair and Tom discovered this, that other person could have ordered a hit on Tom unbeknownst to the other party. The person could have been married with alot at stake if something like this were revealed. I wonder if Tom visited Hawaii a month before he was murdered with both his parents or only one. This is a difficult subject to broach but one that should be sleuthed IMO

Let's think about this further. One of the parents is having an affair, the "Other Woman or Man" is either a high ranking official at Creighton or King Science. To further complicate, perhaps it is a same sex affair. Thomas somehow knows of the affair, if it is a teacher from his school for example, he sees this person every day, perhaps he says something about the affair? This person is married with children, has a reputation to uphold, he begins to see Thomas as a threat to his well being, he has so much to lose. He knows what time Thomas gets off the bus, knows there is a window of a few hours that he is alone. Shirlee was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Tuba says the killer targeted Thomas, that there was a rage towards him and that Shirlee tried to protect him. This is beginning to make more sense to me now, within the terms of the info Tuba supplied via her chart reading. Now ... Hired Hit?

Thanks for the Welcome Home, Knox!:blowkiss:back to you!

I worked for a few Drs. offices back in the day and started recollecting things that went on in that environment. Affairs do happen in the medical profession just like in any workplace where like-minded indivduals work closely together. I am only basing this on my experience of working with Drs. and I can give examples if anyone wants to hear them but I have to make this short so I can wash the dog! I also have a dear friend who became involved with the Dr she works for and although the affair is over, she still manages his practice and drives a nice sports car, etc., but it is never discussed as though it never happened. The point is, both my friend and the Dr. went to great extremes to cover it up as they both had alot to lose so they just called off the affair and continued on with a common goal (The good of the practice) with their integrity intact.

It certainly would provide a motive. Also, the killer was proficient at his craft (no arrest as of yet) and they don't come cheap! Was Shirlee's daughter's ex hubby or BF financially fluid enough to dole out alot of cash for a hit? And would it have been worth it to him? i wish we knew his name and could check his court records. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone knew his name. Is he a petty criminal or big tme?

Someone with lots of money ordered this hit, if that is indeed the case and my gut is saying the link is to Creighton.....JMO

wm

 

[Knox]

WM ... Can you clean out some of your PM's, say's you're full my dear : )

 

[CocoChanel]

Hello to all and thanks to those who brought this case to this site and who are keeping it current. I have read this thread since the beginning and finally found an acceptable email to register with so that I could participate. While I don't have any insight into this horrific crime, kudos to KT Can for providing food for thought with her comments. I vividly remember the Houston-area double murder you recalled, and the suspect who was closer than we realized. This Omaha case also brings to mind the Haines family murders in Pennsylvania 2 years ago. The perpetrator was the friend of the high school-aged son who was killed along with his parents in a knife attack in the middle of the night in their well-to-do neighborhood. Only the daughter newly home from college survived by escaping and running for help. Though it only took a few weeks to reveal who did this, it was thanks to the amazingly brave father of the young killer who turned him in. That case still stuns me, as I imagine this one will continue to do even if we get answers.

 

[colette]

There are elements similar to the Haines family murder. The thing that throws me off is that guy seen driving in the neighborhood looking for an address around the time of the murders.

 

[TheMeaningOfItAll]

Another thing that throws me off is the age of Tom. I have a hard time swallowing him getting into this disagreement with a friend that escalates to murder. Wasn't he only 11 or 12? So if a buddy did commit the crime, it would probably have to be someone around that age...Not saying kids aren't capable of those types of thing at any age, but it seems awfully young to commit murder and not leave any evidence pointing to the murderer being a kid. *sigh* It's good to explore all options, though.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Another thing that throws me off is the age of Tom. I have a hard time swallowing him getting into this disagreement with a friend that escalates to murder. Wasn't he only 11 or 12? So if a buddy did commit the crime, it would probably have to be someone around that age...Not saying kids aren't capable of those types of thing at any age, but it seems awfully young to commit murder and not leave any evidence pointing to the murderer being a kid. *sigh* It's good to explore all options, though.

You have some great thoughts TheMeaningOfItAll! IDK but it seems to me that someone of that age wouldn't have the physical strength and/or expertise to pull it off without leaving some sloppy evidence behind. Nor would a person of that age have the calculating mental faculties to see the crime thru and stump the authorities like this.

Also, if the mysterious man in the SUV is indeed the perp, then he is old enough to drive and Tom was only 11 or 12. I just don't feel the Hunter's would allow Tom to have friends who are several years older. But who knows, there are three older brothers in the family who would obviously have friends who drive. Like you said, It's good to explore all options.

All JMO, of course!:twocents:

 

[YellowDog]

How about the possibility of a neighborhood bully, perhaps an older teen? Maybe someone Tom had egged on.

 

[Le Singe]

it would surprise me if a 12 yo would have the strength and the where-with-all to come into a house get a knife from the kitchen and then stab to death two people one of whom was an adult with out leaving any evidence. But I didn't think that was necessarily the case in the Haines family murders and was wrong (in this case the killer did leave evidence and he was a little older).

This case brings up a lot of questions for me:

How did someone kill two ppl with a knife and not leave any evidence? Is it know there was no evidence or just assumed b/c there was been no report of any?

if the person who did this got a knife the homes kitchen then that complicates things as far as the scenario of someone posing as salesman or something and knocking at the door because he would have had to get all the way into the kitchen. So did he barge in unarmed and go straight to the kitchen? Did he use another weapon to subdue the victims and then kill them with a knife from the kitchen (possibly in an effort to leave no evidence)? Did he not come to the door but instead break in? Was he someone who knew one of the victims well enough that the not only opened the door but they let him into the kitchen?

It would seem to me one likely scenario is some one breaks in with robbery as a motive is surprised to find ppl home and panics....but why kill them with a knife...and it seems hard to believe that it went down in this manner and no evidence was left. This one is strange indeed.

Perhaps a trill killing but local late teens early 20's honestly this makes as much sense as anything to me.

 

[YellowDog]

If the knives came from the home, I would be inclined to think the killer entered through the back door and went into the kitchen to get the knives first.

 

[Skully]

Just popped into see if anything was new, guess not.

 

[Snick1946]

Had a stray thought today for what it's worth. If Shirlee made Tom a sandwich when he came home, could she have left the knife out on the counter?

 

[colette]

Many kitchens have knives right out in the open on knife blocks or other mouting/hanging devices, so that they can be easily used. If not in the open, many people have them in a kitchen drawer. Most likely anyone could have found a knife in that kitchen quickly.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Snick, Your stray thought makes alot of sense. I raised a son and when he was Tom's age he would be 'starving' after school. He would sit in front of his video game for some unwinding while I made a sandwich, hot pocket, etc for him.

If the knives were from the home then it makes me think that A) The killer entered thru the rear door. OR B) The killer was someone familiar with one or both of the victims who entered the residence under a ruse of congeniality.

Collette is right that most kitchens have knives in sight in knife blocks etc. If the killer entered the home on a friendly basis then he would have had time to case the kitchen and locate them. All MOO...

 

[YellowDog]

If the knives did come from the kitchen, wouldn't this be a "crime of anger or passion" rather than a "hit"? There's no way I can picture a hired killer waiting until he got to the scene of the crime to find a weapon.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

If the knives did come from the kitchen, wouldn't this be a "crime of anger or passion" rather than a "hit"? There's no way I can picture a hired killer waiting until he got to the scene of the crime to find a weapon.

YellowDog,
You are right in your assessment, IMO. It does scream anger and/or passion and also gives a new slant on the case. Due to lack of information on the case, I've been sleuthing from the astro's chart's as they do have a record of accuracy. The point of view offered by yourself and others here always opens my mind to scenarios that I haven't considered.

Hopefully, LE reads here and just maybe a sleuth will post a thought or idea that they haven't considered and could fill in a piece to the puzzle.

It is so easy to get stuck on a certain avenue yet in this case there are subtle detours, twists and turns. :bang:

 

[Le Singe]

If the knives did come from the kitchen, wouldn't this be a "crime of anger or passion" rather than a "hit"? There's no way I can picture a hired killer waiting until he got to the scene of the crime to find a weapon.

I agree the only possible exception I can think of (and this is probibly b/c I watch too much tv) would be that weapons and bullets leave evidience that could be forensically used to trace back to someone so if you were to use a weapon from within the home if might be less traceable. However this seems unlikely I think this is more likely a robbery gone bad (some one thought the home was empty and paniced when one of the victims stubled upon him then the other victim came running when they heard the noise), or some type of thrill killing.

The thing that puzzles me is I think I read here that no evidience was found at the scene and it seems unlikely that a "crime of passion or anger' preformed with a knife would not leave any evidence. I may just be making this up or even if that was reported it may not be correct and LE is just playing things close to the vest.