Found Deceased OR - Karissa Alyn Fretwell, 25, William "Billy" Fretwell, Toddler, Salem, 13 May 2019 *ARREST*

[Mind your biscuits]

This is my first post on Websleuths. I came to this forum specifically because of this case, having heard about the forum from a friend who watched the Killing Season. I’ve been following this case very closely, as I have a son, just over a year old, blonde hair like WF. It really feels like, based on the evidence collected that police and DA have been able to discuss, the victims are deceased. I don’t want to believe it, but it seems very unlikely that KF would be hiding with WF for this long without contacting their family. The case has given me nightmares. I really hope they are found, and justice is served.

Welcome

 

[Jethro4WS]

Thanks, Jethro. A little from the article:

[...]

On Thursday afternoon, the grand jury in Yamhill County handed down a 5-count indictment: 2 counts of aggravated murder, 1 count of aggravated murder constituting domestic violence, and 2 counts of first-degree kidnapping. (Read the full indictment below)

The domestic violence charge was added because of the relationship between Wolfe and Fretwell.

The 3 aggravated murder charges indicate Karissa and Billy were killed "in the course of the same criminal episode."

All the counts charge Wolfe with the killing and kidnapping in Yamhill County "on or about May 13." Fretwell lived in Salem in Marion County, and Wolfe lived in Gaston, which is in both Yamhill and Washington counties.

[...]

One thing that I am surprised that the reporters/editors did not get right is that Karissa lived in the West Salem part of Salem. That part of Salem is in Polk County not Marion County. This is why we see her court case for child support it is out of Polk County rather than Marion County.

 

[Yamhill]

This would help explain why Yamhill County is prosecuting the case when it might be uncertain where the victims were killed. Polk County has an even smaller population than Yamhill County.

I would point out that Mr Wolfe is not the only person to have a vested interest in killing the mother and child to evade child support. These two other people who have a vested interest that could motivate them to commit the murders would also have a vested interest in framing MW for the murders. They also have a unique opportunity to access MW's cellphone and vehicle to commit the murders and frame MW.

I will not name these people.

 

[Penny4YourThoughts]

Disclaimer "I, Penny4YT, do solemnly swear to be pretty in the dark on legal proceedings", so use kid gloves w me please, peeps.

@Yamhill, your post on MW being framed by nameless 2 grabbed my attention big-time. How do you theorize it went down?
Since I've also read LE's charges against MW, is there any chance that those charges were publicised to flush out
the real killers? Please & thanks for replies

 

[Paulette]

This would help explain why Yamhill County is prosecuting the case when it might be uncertain where the victims were killed. Polk County has an even smaller population than Yamhill County.

I would point out that Mr Wolfe is not the only person to have a vested interest in killing the mother and child to evade child support. These two other people who have a vested interest that could motivate them to commit the murders would also have a vested interest in framing MW for the murders. They also have a unique opportunity to access MW's cellphone and vehicle to commit the murders and frame MW.

I will not name these people.

Perhaps... but they didn't leave work and sneak through bushes to access his vehicle, did they? They didn't lie about leaving work & sneaking off. Did he have his phone at work? Then he was the one that drove to Salem, not the other two people. I'm pretty sure that if they are accused and innocent, they will take lie detector tests as a show of innocence.

 

[Yamhill]

Perhaps... but they didn't leave work and sneak through bushes to access his vehicle, did they? They didn't lie about leaving work & sneaking off. Did he have his phone at work? Then he was the one that drove to Salem, not the other two people. I'm pretty sure that if they are accused and innocent, they will take lie detector tests as a show of innocence.

I keep asking myself why Cascade Steel would be hiring anyone for this job if it was possible to sneak away from work for hours without anyone noticing you were gone. This was graveyard shift so he probably isn't a bookkeeper hiding in a private office.

How good is the resolution of the video? Could someone else put on a fake mustache to impersonate him in the video? MW know about the cameras so why would he be foolish enough to use his golf cart?

 

[JDough]

I keep asking myself why Cascade Steel would be hiring anyone for this job if it was possible to sneak away from work for hours without anyone noticing you were gone. This was graveyard shift so he probably isn't a bookkeeper hiding in a private office.

How good is the resolution of the video? Could someone else put on a fake mustache to impersonate him in the video? MW know about the cameras so why would he be foolish enough to use his golf cart?

Although I do not work at this specific plant, I do have first-hand knowledge of workplace cameras. I can assure you that the quality of the video obtained by LE is good enough for them to conclude that it is MW.

I have no doubt LE has also obtained and reviewed the indoor video surveillance, as well. It would be easy to determine his movements both indoors and out for the night. (Along with other employees, contractors, and vendors).

As to your question about why MW would feel comfortable using a golf cart/leave the immediate area knowing there are cameras in use: many positions at this location (engineers, mechanics, forklift operators, truck drivers, supervisors, managers, warehouse staff, security personnel, etc.), are known to work all over the property. It would not be unusual for them to have a legitimate reason to be "working" in other areas.

I'm curious about why you are wondering if the person on video is not MW? Has LE indicated there may be someone from the plant (other than MW), that could be involved?

 

[Gideon Rathbone]

While these two people (if they are who I think they are) do have a motive, I don't see them in the pattern. MW is seen leaving and returning to work during this timeframe. His cell phone was pinging from his work to KF's back to work and his home. Her's followed the same locations. It's possible they were accomplices, but I think if his car and his phone were being used by someone else he would have said something.

 

[Yamhill]

While these two people (if they are who I think they are) do have a motive, I don't see them in the pattern. MW is seen leaving and returning to work during this timeframe. His cell phone was pinging from his work to KF's back to work and his home. Her's followed the same locations. It's possible they were accomplices, but I think if his car and his phone were being used by someone else he would have said something.

The primary evidence against MW that has been divulged to the public is that MW's phone and KF's phone pinged various cell towers at certain times. This proves that their phones were in certain areas, not that the people were in certain locations.

Anyone who could obtain MW's cellphone without his knowledge, even for one night, could take that phone with them while they committed the abductions. Taking KF's cellphone when they abducted her and WF would only enhance the false incrimination.

BTW, I have personal experience with people attempting to falsely incriminate me.
First example was a parks district attempting to incriminate me for a series of arson fires on Park property. Turned out that it was their own security guard.
Second example was tenants who had installed an illegal marrijunna grow on my rental property. I had the misfortune of having the eviction case heard by a profoundly imbecilic judge who believed them.

 

[roche.analisa]

Salem woman, son still missing: Prosecuting a murder case without a body

 

[PommyMommy]

Salem woman, son still missing: Prosecuting a murder case without a body

Thank you, this is a great article and very thorough. Bringing some of the text here:

[...]

Without bodies, or a crime scene, prosecution becomes much more complicated. But it would not be Oregon's first so-called no-body homicide case.

"They are more common than people think," said Tad DiBiase, former federal homicide prosecutor.

[...]

Although rare, more no-body cases are going to trial.

DiBiase said more than half of the cases he's tracked went to trial in the last 20 years.

"I think there are two big reasons. Number one is DNA, which has changed tremendously since the year 2000," he said.

The second reason, and perhaps the most important, is the advent of people leaving behind all sorts of electronic trails that weren't around 40 years ago.

[...]

A grand jury met and issued an indictment on murder charges. Wolfe's next court date is June 20.

Berry said he doesn't recall the Yamhill County District Attorney's Office ever prosecuting a no-body murder case, but he feels confident the Wolfe case can proceed to trial even if the bodies are never found.

Evidence already in hand, he said, supports the charges.

[...]

Over the years, DiBiase said he's begun to see patterns emerge in no-body homicides.

The perpetrator and victim tend to be in a domestic relationship. And that relationship is typically fraught with triggering events like an argument, infidelity or a custody dispute.

[...]

Despite the difficulties in taking the cases to trial, prosecutors usually are successful in getting a conviction.

"I think the biggest misconception is that once cases go to trial, it's all very difficult to get a conviction," DiBiase said.

Of the hundreds of cases he's tracked, about 88% resulted in a conviction. That's higher than the normal conviction rate of 70% in all murder cases.

[...]

 

[Lilibet]

Salem woman, son still missing: Prosecuting a murder case without a body

Thanks! I’d love to see this happen in the case of Stephanie Warner in my signature. Similar patterns described in the article.

 

[Paulette]

The primary evidence against MW that has been divulged to the public is that MW's phone and KF's phone pinged various cell towers at certain times. This proves that their phones were in certain areas, not that the people were in certain locations.

Anyone who could obtain MW's cellphone without his knowledge, even for one night, could take that phone with them while they committed the abductions. Taking KF's cellphone when they abducted her and WF would only enhance the false incrimination.

BTW, I have personal experience with people attempting to falsely incriminate me.
First example was a parks district attempting to incriminate me for a series of arson fires on Park property. Turned out that it was their own security guard.
Second example was tenants who had installed an illegal marrijunna grow on my rental property. I had the misfortune of having the eviction case heard by a profoundly imbecilic judge who believed them.

The hole in your story is MW had his phone with him when he re-entered the bushes and went back to work. The phones were later tracked back to his house. Are you imagining he didn't take his phone when he crept out of work? That someone else stole it and carried out the dirty deed, then waited till his shift ended and drove it home, and he didn't miss it?

 

[stratospheric]

Perhaps an alt theory could be the aforementioned individuals hinted at assisting in the crime. By perhaps meeting him in the parking area?

Doesnt seem we've read/heard anything about dogs hitting on his vehicle.. hence the thought of another vehicle being involved?

MOO

The hole in your story is MW had his phone with him when he re-entered the bushes and went back to work. The phones were later tracked back to his house. Are you imagining he didn't take his phone when he crept out of work? That someone else stole it and carried out the dirty deed, then waited till his shift ended and drove it home, and he didn't miss it?

 

[Yamhill]

The hole in your story is MW had his phone with him when he re-entered the bushes and went back to work. The phones were later tracked back to his house. Are you imagining he didn't take his phone when he crept out of work? That someone else stole it and carried out the dirty deed, then waited till his shift ended and drove it home, and he didn't miss it?

If the quality of video is suffecient to positively identify MW leaving and returning to the mill, I will eagerly yield the point. To be blunt, I believe that MW is guilty but am not yet ready to rule out alternative suspects.

<modsnip: off topic, long personal anecdote>

 

[Yamhill]

The hole in your story is MW had his phone with him when he re-entered the bushes and went back to work. The phones were later tracked back to his house. Are you imagining he didn't take his phone when he crept out of work? That someone else stole it and carried out the dirty deed, then waited till his shift ended and drove it home, and he didn't miss it?

Just FYI, I believe MW is guilty. I am merely considering alternative theories. I will eagerly abandon this alternative theory if security video has suffecient resolution to positively ID MW and eliminate an individual in disguise. Also, testimony from people who know MW well enough that they recognize his voice that they had a conversation with him on his cellphone that evening would refute my theory.

Most modern cellphones have an internal GPS that tracks the phone's location even when you turn off location services. Accuracy is usually within 100 feet but not within 10 feet.

Assume someone obtains MW's cellphone and he believes that he has lost or misplaced it. He goes to work without his phone.

This someone disguises themselves as MW to drive a cart to the bushes. They then take MW's cellphone with them as they drive to Salem to abduct KF and WF. This someone would have keys to MW's vehicle so they might take his vehicle.

This someone keeps the cellphone with them as the linger in the Hopewell / Amity area. This focuses police attention on this area. They then transfer KF and WF to another vehicle, perhaps being driven by an accomplice.

This someone then drives to the mill, drops off MW's phone and may be his vehicle with phone under the seat. They then drive thr golf cart from the bushes back to the mill then removes their disguise before walking out.

This someone then might meet with accomplice to consumate the murders and dispose of the bodies.

 

[Lilibet]

Just FYI, I believe MW is guilty. I am merely considering alternative theories. I will eagerly abandon this alternative theory if security video has suffecient resolution to positively ID MW and eliminate an individual in disguise. Also, testimony from people who know MW well enough that they recognize his voice that they had a conversation with him on his cellphone that evening would refute my theory.

Most modern cellphones have an internal GPS that tracks the phone's location even when you turn off location services. Accuracy is usually within 100 feet but not within 10 feet.

Assume someone obtains MW's cellphone and he believes that he has lost or misplaced it. He goes to work without his phone.

This someone disguises themselves as MW to drive a cart to the bushes. They then take MW's cellphone with them as they drive to Salem to abduct KF and WF. This someone would have keys to MW's vehicle so they might take his vehicle.

This someone keeps the cellphone with them as the linger in the Hopewell / Amity area. This focuses police attention on this area. They then transfer KF and WF to another vehicle, perhaps being driven by an accomplice.

This someone then drives to the mill, drops off MW's phone and may be his vehicle with phone under the seat. They then drive thr golf cart from the bushes back to the mill then removes their disguise before walking out.

This someone then might meet with accomplice to consumate the murders and dispose of the bodies.

<modsnip: referenced post was modsnipped>

In this case, it’s a good thing that these alternate theories don’t have to be disproved by LE in order to charge MW based on the evidence they’ve collected. It will be up to his defense team to try to convince a jury that he could have been framed. I don’t think they’ll be successful.

 

[MsBetsy]

Just FYI, I believe MW is guilty. I am merely considering alternative theories. I will eagerly abandon this alternative theory if security video has suffecient resolution to positively ID MW and eliminate an individual in disguise. Also, testimony from people who know MW well enough that they recognize his voice that they had a conversation with him on his cellphone that evening would refute my theory.

Most modern cellphones have an internal GPS that tracks the phone's location even when you turn off location services. Accuracy is usually within 100 feet but not within 10 feet.

Assume someone obtains MW's cellphone and he believes that he has lost or misplaced it. He goes to work without his phone.

This someone disguises themselves as MW to drive a cart to the bushes. They then take MW's cellphone with them as they drive to Salem to abduct KF and WF. This someone would have keys to MW's vehicle so they might take his vehicle.

This someone keeps the cellphone with them as the linger in the Hopewell / Amity area. This focuses police attention on this area. They then transfer KF and WF to another vehicle, perhaps being driven by an accomplice.

This someone then drives to the mill, drops off MW's phone and may be his vehicle with phone under the seat. They then drive thr golf cart from the bushes back to the mill then removes their disguise before walking out.

This someone then might meet with accomplice to consumate the murders and dispose of the bodies.

Is there another "someone" police are looking at as a suspect?
It all sounds possible, just not very likely. Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

Possibly. Or it was dropped/kept in the car and disposed of later. The day after she and Billy disappeared a text was sent from her phone at 2:30 pm. I believe this was to her employment stating she was ill and wouldn't be in to work. He could have sent the text himself to make it look like she wasn't missing... Yet. Watching her phone go off with desperate calls and texts from friends and family... Not daring to answer those. He likely wasn't thinking about cell towers and pings and Google locations. Just thinking of ways to buy time.

There was a text message from her phone to her workplace stating she was ill and wouldn't be in to work?

Where have we heard that before?

Sounds like another Patrick Frazee. Imo

 

[Gideon Rathbone]

"The affidavit states a text message was sent from Fretwell’s phone at 2:27 p.m. May 14 and it was received by a cell tower 1.4 miles southeast of Gaston, which would place it within the area of Wolfe’s home on the 2700 block of Northwest Phillips Road."

I don't recall where I saw that the text was to her employer. I will have to dig around.