OR - Kyron Horman, 7 yo Second grader, Portland, 4 June 2010 - Part #9

[Jules71]

Why does a lack of candle-light vigil seem strange? Not disagreeing...just wondering. I think if my child was missing the last thing on my mind would be a candle-light vigil. I understand it's to bring awareness but I think at this point everyone in the community is very aware of what's going on.

Is there another reason to hold one?

To support the family.

 

[Janeumayer]

Has it been confirmed whether the dogs tracked scent, where, and where it stopped? Anything at all on that? Or was that all another no comment from LE?

We could really use that rumor list!!! Volunteers?

Rumors:
- the appointment
- the projects in the gym
- backpack and coat left at school

I could do it late tonight. PM me if you remember specific rumours so that I can find them.

 

[cluciano63]

The one thing LE has stated is that there is no reason to believe this was an abduction...since they have stated so little else, I believe them and I believe they stated this for a reason. I also believe they would not lie to the community, i.e. to prevent a panic...they lie to suspects, that is ok, but unless they know they have seriously screwed up, I am not buying that they are lying to the public.

Lots of people post that LE has said it is not an abduction and then go right on about the abductor. It makes no sense to me, but I guess not everyone believes LE, which is fine. I do, unless they are proven to be liars, I guess. JMO

 

[Jules71]

It was way back in an earlier thread. A guy who lived one or 2 streets away saw her and thought it strange cause he lives on a one way street. Can anyone find the post?

A white truck driven by a lady was seen by Jim Kelley and his neighbor Fri at 3 pm and Sat at 2 am near his home off of Cornelius Pass
"We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday," Kelley said. Around 3 p.m., he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.

"A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn't know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing," said Kelley. "That's beyond rare."

Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot.
According to http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html)

 

[Astrella613]

It's hard to imagine that with all the people around that someone didn't see anything. It's virtually impossible...I assume someone saw something and LE is just not giving us that information. Kyron didn't just disappear into thin air. Either he walked out on his own, someone took him or he is still in the school somewhere. Those are the only three options.

The only one where it appears possible that no one saw anything is that he is still in the school somewhere and if that is the case and they haven't found him yet then someone needs to get fired asap.

Someone in an earlier thread, sorry I don't remember who, suggested he may have been taken from the school in some sort of container. With all the activity from the science projects and parents and others going and coming this may have not been noticed. Don't know if this would prevent his scent from being picked up.

 

[RoseWhite]

I wonder if they did inventory of the science fair projects? Was anything reported missing? Like... a compass, a tree guide, a potentially poisonous substance... I could go on and on.

Also, what really snags my brain is that LE is confident enough to say that this was an isolated incident and other children are not in danger.

 

[TopTop]

Before I go on, I want to say its nice to get perspectives from both parents and teachers as far as school policy goes and notifications of absences and such. I can totally understand teaching children responsibility and making sure they can take care of themselves. However, bottom line they are still children. In the case of absences I am trying very hard to understand why an absence would not be noted as something important to confirm/follow-up on, or handled in such a 'matter of fact' manner at some schools these days. I understand the policy that the teacher must call the office and the office takes it from there. Its then the employee's in the office who have the responsibility of confirming a child's absence with the parent. Should this be more of a priority for the office employees, especially in this day and age where unfortunately, missing children/abductions are increasing? Just a thought, is all.

I agree. We all try to teach our children responsibility, to be aware, to be smart, to look out for themselves etc. but at the end of the day I expect my children's teachers and school to look out for them. It is a very important part of their job.

 

[Jules71]

Thanks Jules! See I had heard of this van a few threads back but had no details. I had assumed the van was spotted the morning of the abduction, not in the afternoon.

Welcome. And it was a white pick-up truck, not a van.

 

[Pensfan]

....Because this fits the profile of what someone who abducts children does with their deceased body. Previously ( I think two days ago?) I found an excellent reference that stated that young children who are abducted are disposed of within 5 miles of the abduction site. As the child's age increases so does the perimeter of where the murderer could have possibly dumped them. (Sorry, I have to do work on my yard's weeds. I will find reference this afternoon for you.)

Ms. Suzanne, to answer your previous question about why they continue to search the woods around the school I found this source from The FBI Law Enforcement Bulletin for you.

The vast majority of elementary school abductions occur within 1 mile of their residence. Disposal sites of the remains become more distant as victim age increases. In cases where offenders kill the victims, the remains of younger school-age children generally are recovered within 1 mile of the abduction site. These offenders leave most remains unconcealed or superficially cover them with available mate rials--few bury their victims or conceal them in packaging material.
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Investigating+Potential+Child+Abduction+Cases-a075959748

 

[AlexisFresca]

It's hard to imagine that with all the people around that someone didn't see anything. It's virtually impossible...I assume someone saw something and LE is just not giving us that information. Kyron didn't just disappear into thin air. Either he walked out on his own, someone took him or he is still in the school somewhere. Those are the only three options.

The only one where it appears possible that no one saw anything is that he is still in the school somewhere and if that is the case and they haven't found him yet then someone needs to get fired asap.

If I may add, considering the unusual increase in bustling activity that morning, I can see where someone may have been too distracted to really notice what was going on around them. Kids were excited about their projects and showing them to mom and dad or even gramma or grampa. I agree with you (bbm) and think that someone did see something and that it was forwarded to LE, but that LE is keeping quiet about what was seen to not affect the integrity of the case.

 

[JBean]

There is nothing wrong with looking at and analyzing the behaviors of those close to the situation. It is to be expected.
We just all want to be responsible and careful as to what we do with the analysis and make sure we have our facts straight.

 

[Loislane12000]

Yep. That's me too

YES---very strange that we haven't heard the 911 call---very strange. Thanks suzet for sheading that light.

And I've been thinking about this whole "not blaming the family" thing and "How would you feel if LE was pointing the finger at you and searching your home??"

Frankly, I would be honored that LE is EXHAUSTING EVERY SINGLE OPTION. Look at my husbands computer??? GO FOR IT. I would be more than happy to take a polygraph test. Search my home. Just do whatever it takes to at least make me think you are looking REALLY HARD. Now, as long as you are looking at other possiblilties/angles, then that all together works for me.

I'm not a mommy yet, as I just got married in April, but boy do I love children and I cannot wait to have them. There is no way I would ever harm my children, lol, and I'm not going to go into how ridiculously squeaky clean my hubby is, but GD FORBID anything would happen to our child, people will look at us, no matter what---and that is expected. Monsters like Casey Anthony and Susan Smith have made it this way. They've turned society against Moms and Dads, and step-parents. It's sad, but true--and sometimes VALID, as many do kill.

I'm NOT blaming anyone here in Kyron's case ok, so please try your best not to delete this post. I am just stating that IN EVERY MISSING CHILD/PERSON case, the police should look EVERYWHERE. JUST TO BE SURE, and that it is NATURAL to at least raise an eyebrow at family. Not always accurate, but expected.

And it is the family's job, aside from looking desparately for their child/loved one, to provide evidence of their innocence (if they are).

That being said...I will do my very best to stick to the rules of the forum!

In the country I live in people are assumed innocent until proven otherwise. I didn't think that changed for missing person cases. While I agree that LO will look to immediate circle of family/friends first, it is still up to the law to produce evidence to take a person to court.

 

[BeanE]

Give me a bit to try to hunt the article down, but evidently after Kyron went missing there was more than one discussion by her of her workouts.

Not everyone who has questions are on a witch hunt. I know I'm not! I don't think the wide brush is necessary.

What I say, my opinion, my feelings, are not about any individual, are not about everyone, and should not be taken that way. I am speaking in generalities.

I never said or indicated there was anything at all wrong with questioning. I'm a big fan of questioning

 

[Pensfan]

....Because this fits the profile of what someone who abducts children does with their deceased body. Previously ( I think two days ago?) I found an excellent reference that stated that young children who are abducted are disposed of within 5 miles of the abduction site. As the child's age increases so does the perimeter of where the murderer could have possibly dumped them. (Sorry, I have to do work on my yard's weeds. I will find reference this afternoon for you.)

The one thing LE has stated is that there is no reason to believe this was an abduction...since they have stated so little else, I believe them and I believe they stated this for a reason. I also believe they would not lie to the community, i.e. to prevent a panic...they lie to suspects, that is ok, but unless they know they have seriously screwed up, I am not buying that they are lying to the public.

Lots of people post that LE has said it is not an abduction and then go right on about the abductor. It makes no sense to me, but I guess not everyone believes LE, which is fine. I do, unless they are proven to be liars, I guess. JMO

bbm
Maybe LE was referring to the scariest thing on earth to 99.9% of all parents: stranger abduction??????? (keeping my mouth shut here)

 

[TopTop]

To support the family.

I see. So usually it's someone else that organizes the vigel, not the family? If this is the case then why would no one have organized a vigil? Are they more common in certain parts of the country than others?

I really apologize of this seems ignorant of me....I'm just not very familiar with these things.

 

[Jules71]

My son has field day at his school coming up and I was asked to volunteer since I have "been cleared to do so". I was happy the teacher mentioned that I had already been cleared to do so. I filled out a volunteer form at the beginning of the year and had to come in and give them my driver's license at one point this year and I think they ran a background check. I am happy to know they are not just asking any parent to volunteer. I am going to take a close look at how the event goes and see what types of improvements could be made to make sure students stay safe and this type of thing doesn't happen. Our school is backed by woods on two sides and that always freaks me out.

 

[raeann]

It's hard to imagine that with all the people around that someone didn't see anything. It's virtually impossible...I assume someone saw something and LE is just not giving us that information. Kyron didn't just disappear into thin air. Either he walked out on his own, someone took him or he is still in the school somewhere. Those are the only three options.

The only one where it appears possible that no one saw anything is that he is still in the school somewhere and if that is the case and they haven't found him yet then someone needs to get fired asap.

BBM

It becomes even more impossible knowing that it would have had to have happened TWICE in a very short period of time. There has to be someone who saw the SM leaving, as she left at the same time as many of the other parents were going to their cars. We already know that people saw both Kyron and the SM inside the school earlier, and two sightings of Kyron after that have been implied. There were 275 students, probably 25 or more school staff members, many dozens of parents.......LE has talked to 100% of them.....SOMEONE saw something of value.

jmoo

 

[amysmom]

http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2010/06/day_three_search_continues_hun.html

1:29 p.m. -- Neighbors stop by Brooks Hill Historic church, across the street from the school, to mull over the investigation. "This kind of thing is unheard of," says Jim Kelley, 50.

Kelley, who lives about a mile and a half down hill, at the end of a winding, secluded country lane off Cornelius Pass, said police, federal agents, K-9 teams and helicopters scoured the area Saturday.

"We had two odd sightings of a vehicle on our road Friday," Kelley said. Around 3 p.m., he and a neighbor reported seeing a white pick-up truck with a female driver pull to the end of the long road, idle and then turn around. Then again at 2 a.m. Saturday morning, a similar white pickup truck appeared, idled and when a neighbor loosed her dogs, eased away.

"A, it was strange to have a car there, any car there, that we didn't know, and B, it was strange to have a vehicle come down our dead-end road twice in the same day, hours after a little boy goes missing," said Kelley. "That's beyond rare."

Kelley said authorities have twice searched the deep ravine, creek and railroad tracks located near the end of his street by air and on foot.

My 1st thought was at 3p the 'perp' was scouting out a place to dump the 'victim' later that night but was foiled by the neighbor's dog on return..I even went so far as think the "female" driver may have been the 'male' sex offender someone posted a pix of from the local registry maybe that next day (?)..I can't find that post or link now but do recall the real name is V if anyone can provide the link again so you'll know who I mean even tho I've ditched this theory.

I had been leaning more towards Kyron walked into those woods (on the suggestion of a friend) to find a frog for his project, he was dared to go into those woods (practical joke played by older student), or something/someone upset him enough to leave the school since the opportunity was present due to the lack of supervision at that time.

If he got lost in those woods near the school (or elsewhere) I honestly don't know how he'd be found..It seems like an almost impossible task to me cos it's so similar to the recent case of the little girl (?) in FL.

I also have other ideas that I can't talk about but seem less likely..I honestly don't know what really did happen to poor Kyron & fear there's a chance we may never have an answer.

 

[Jules71]

I see. So usually it's someone else that organizes the vigel, not the family? If this is the case then why would no one have organized a vigil? Are they more common in certain parts of the country than others?

I really apologize of this seems ignorant of me....I'm just not very familiar with these things.

I've seen both. The family organize it to be held at a park or something like that. And I have also seen the community organize them by having people congregate near a persons home.

 

[trigger]

Yes it stemmed from a comment on a news article posted by someone claiming to be Kyron's aunt. If anyone can hunt for that link we can add it to the rumor list.

I have it. How do I add it???