OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

[katydid23]

I don't understand the big push here to say that this violent shooter had 'no mental health issues.' He showed his issue of rage and depression in his writings and his vile actions. he is not exactly 'normal.' It does not mean he should not be tried and convicted because he was fully aware of his actions. He is not mentally impaired to the extent that he did not know he was WRONG for killing those poor innocent people. But he did have life long emotional and mental health deficits. JMO

 

[human]

I don't understand the big push here to say that this violent shooter had 'no mental health issues.' He showed his issue of rage and depression in his writings and his vile actions. he is not exactly 'normal.' It does not mean he should not be tried and convicted because he was fully aware of his actions. He is not mentally impaired to the extent that he did not know he was WRONG for killing those poor innocent people. But he did have life long emotional and mental health deficits. JMO

I think he had character flaws. Self centered, narcissistic, entitled. I don't know. Are those mental health iseues? I guess NPD is.

 

[katydid23]

I think he had character flaws. Self centered, narcissistic, entitled. I don't know. Are those mental health iseues? I guess NPD is.

He was not sent to a Special Needs high school because of character flaws, imo.

 

[sorrell skye]

Both were included because the point of the article was to separate the two, so mental illness doesn't keep getting brought into mass shootings the way it does.

I think if diagnosed mental illness is a known factor in any rampage shooting, it needs to be part of the discussion, especially if it's found to be a recurring factor in rampage shootings.

Most mentally ill people do not commit acts of violence.

Most gun violence is not committed by mentally ill people.

Most gun violence is not committed by law-abiding gun owners.

A recurring theme in rampage shootings seems to be mental illness combined with a proclaimed sense of exclusion and/or isolation on the part of the perpetrators, as is evidenced by the mass shootings over the past few years.

I think the common factors of rampage shootings need to be examined, without stigmatizing mentally ill people in general.

 

[katydid23]

I think if diagnosed mental illness is a known factor in any rampage shooting, it needs to be part of the discussion, especially if it's found to be a recurring factor in rampage shootings.

Most mentally ill people do not commit acts of violence.

Most gun violence is not committed by mentally ill people.

But a recurring theme in rampage shootings seems to be mental illness combined with a proclaimed sense of exclusion and/or isolation on the part of the perpetrators, as is evidenced by the mass shootings over the past few years.

I think the common factors of rampage shootings need to be examined, without stigmatizing mentally ill people in general.

Well said.

MOST mentally ill people are non violent. MOST gun owners are non-violent. But tragically, we occasionally get someone violent who is both mentally ill and a gun owner, and it escalates everything, imo.

I don't think it is fair to scape goat gun owners or people with mental health issues. But we cannot pretend that the combination of the two things are not potentially dangerous. JMO

 

[KaaBoom]

I wonder if she will have to give up her guns now, or if she'll want to?

I wouldn't be surprised if she fights to get them back. This is the type of person who when they hear about a mass-shooting, their first thought is, oh no, they are going to try and take my guns away from me now.

 

[sorrell skye]

More mentally Ill Persons are in Jails or Prisons Than Hospitals: A Survey of the States

http://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/storage/documents/final_jails_v_hospitals_study.pdf

(b) Recent studies suggest that at least 16 percent of inmate in jails and prisons have a serious mental illness. In 1983 a similar study reported that the percentage was 6.4 percent. Thus, in less than three decades, the percentage of seriously mentally ill prisoners has almost tripled.

(c) These findings are consistent with studies reporting that 40 percent of individuals with
serious mental illnesses have been in jail or prison at some time in their lives.

Another excellent article discussing the number of mentally ill people who are incarcerated:

http://www.governing.com/topics/public-justice-safety/gov-miami-mental-health-jail.html

As states have cut funding for the mentally ill, jails and prisons have become the place to house them. This must change.

Until we decriminalize mental illness and until we fully fund services for the mentally ill, we will continue to suffer the consequences of those aberrant few who choose to act out their illness in extremely violent ways.

 

[ElleElle]

I don't understand the big push here to say that this violent shooter had 'no mental health issues.' He showed his issue of rage and depression in his writings and his vile actions. he is not exactly 'normal.' It does not mean he should not be tried and convicted because he was fully aware of his actions. He is not mentally impaired to the extent that he did not know he was WRONG for killing those poor innocent people. But he did have life long emotional and mental health deficits. JMO

BBM ~ Maybe he was trying to seek attention because he was getting by on easy street in life?

 

[Dogface]

This thread, IMO, is very bizarre in comparison to other threads similar to this type of crime. We have a shooter here, who went to a specialized school for behavioral trouble, was mixed race yet identifying with nazi ideology and we are questioning if he had mental health issues? I don't get it . I think it's painfully obvious he was failing to cope. I also think the thought that once your child is 18 that they are on their own is ridiculous. I'm nearly 30, a mother myself, and seek guidance and reassurance from both my parents on a regular basis. I think his father could have been more aware of what was going on with his son if he wanted to. The writing was on the wall. In the Bella Bond thread her bio dad was ripped to shreds for leaving his daughter with her prostitue drug addicted mother. How is leaving your behavioral challenged son with a mother with her own obvious issues any different?

 

[ElleElle]

This thread, IMO, is very bizarre in comparison to other threads similar to this type of crime. We have a shooter here, who went to a specialized school for behavioral trouble, was mixed race yet identifying with nazi ideology and we are questioning if he had mental health issues? I don't get it . I think it's painfully obvious he was failing to cope. I also think the thought that once your child is 18 that they are on their own is ridiculous. I'm nearly 30, a mother myself, and seek guidance and reassurance from both my parents on a regular basis. I think his father could have been more aware of what was going on with his son if he wanted to. The writing was on the wall. In the Bella Bond thread her bio dad was ripped to shreds for leaving his daughter with her prostitue drug addicted mother. How is leaving your behavioral challenged son with a mother with her own obvious issues any different?

BBM ~ Maybe the father wanted to be involved more and mom did not want him to be. There are so many dynamics and factors as to why the father was not involved. How on earth can any parent believe their kill will go on a mass shooting rampage?

 

[human]

This thread, IMO, is very bizarre in comparison to other threads similar to this type of crime. We have a shooter here, who went to a specialized school for behavioral trouble, was mixed race yet identifying with nazi ideology and we are questioning if he had mental health issues? I don't get it . I think it's painfully obvious he was failing to cope. I also think the thought that once your child is 18 that they are on their own is ridiculous. I'm nearly 30, a mother myself, and seek guidance and reassurance from both my parents on a regular basis. I think his father could have been more aware of what was going on with his son if he wanted to. The writing was on the wall. In the Bella Bond thread her bio dad was ripped to shreds for leaving his daughter with her prostitue drug addicted mother. How is leaving your behavioral challenged son with a mother with her own obvious issues any different?

Bella was an infant.

At some point, the mentally ill child who is 26 years old needs his own life. Mommy and Daddy are not going to live forever.

Elliott R had a fancy car, apt, going to school, but that was not enough. He was rude just like this guy.

What can anyone do? How do you keep him from getting a gun? And where does he live? What services does he get?

 

[KaaBoom]

Being desensitized to violence and questioning the facts is fine, I get that, and I would expect it from LE. But it's not the same as being credulous and willfully ignorant.

If I asked you:

Has anyone asked him yet if the Oregon shooting really happened? Has he positively ID'd all the victims as students at UCC, or does he suspect some of them may be crisis actors? Is he the one being used by the government this time, in their gun control agenda?

Actually yes, karma is catching up to him. The hoaxers are all over it. Not something I'm usually happy to see, but in this case, bring it on. If the Sheriff thinks it's cool to call Sandy Hook a hoax, lets see how he likes people calling UCC a hoax.

 

[katydid23]

BBM ~ Maybe the father wanted to be involved more and mom did not want him to be. There are so many dynamics and factors as to why the father was not involved. How on earth can any parent believe their kill will go on a mass shooting rampage?

His son was 26 yrs old. Mom has no say how involved the father can be at that point. Dad did not see his son for two years. I doubt it was the Mom's doing. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Bella was an infant.

At some point, the mentally ill child who is 26 years old needs his own life. Mommy and Daddy are not going to live forever.

Elliott R had a fancy car, apt, going to school, but that was not enough. He was rude just like this guy.

What can anyone do? How do you keep him from getting a gun? And where does he live? What services does he get?

PERFECT questions. How do you keep someone from getting a gun if they do not have criminal records etc. That is an important question, imo.

 

[Dogface]

Bella was an infant.

At some point, the mentally ill child who is 26 years old needs his own life. Mommy and Daddy are not going to live forever.

Elliott R had a fancy car, apt, going to school, but that was not enough. He was rude just like this guy.


Ok,
What can anyone do? How do you keep him from getting a gun? And where does he live? What services does he get?

Obviously the mental health care in the states is a joke, and changes have been long over due. And I agree all adults deserve to have their own life, however, his parents didn't divorce last year. They divorced when he was 16. I would love to know how involved his father was during this time period. That can be a very trying time for children, especially with divorce involved. I will always question parents who don't know what their kid is doing, at any age. My parents who divorced when I was 2 still call each other and talk about me! My parents weren't helicopter parents either, I moved out at 17, but best believe they always had their eyes on me.

 

[sorrell skye]

America has it's own 'celebrity' culture thing going on that is very detrimental, imo.

I agree. Much of the popular culture glorifies violence and 'revenge'.

How much air-play do peacemakers get? How much airtime has Malala Yousafzai gotten? How many Americans even know who she is and know what she's accomplished as a human rights advocate and as a peace advocate?

Many Americans are rabid consumers of violence in all its forms, but then wail and wring their hands when violence is visited upon our communities.

Many say they want peace, all the while purchasing the commodities of violence, all the while choosing to be entertained by violence.

 

[ElleElle]

"Alexis Jefferson, who worked with Ms. Harper at a Southern California subacute care center around 2010, said the gunman’s mother sometimes confided the difficulties she had in raising her son, including that she had placed Mr. Harper-Mercer in a psychiatric hospital when he did not take his medication.

“She said that my son is a real big problem of mine,” Ms. Jefferson said in a telephone interview. “She said, ‘He has some psychological problems. Sometimes he takes his medication, sometimes he doesn’t. And that’s where the big problem is, when he doesn’t take his medication.’ ”

Ms. Jefferson said Ms. Harper had described bringing her son to the Del Amo Behavioral Health System in Torrance, Calif., near where they had lived before moving to Oregon.

“He calls and says, ‘Take me out, take me out,’ ” Ms. Jefferson said, recalling her conversations with Ms. Harper. “She didn’t take him out until the doctor said he was ready to get out.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/us/mother-of-oregon-gunman-wrote-of-keeping-firearms.html?_r=0

 

[La Louve]

His son was 26 yrs old. Mom has no say how involved the father can be at that point. Dad did not see his son for two years. I doubt it was the Mom's doing. JMO

A 26 year old who was still living with his mother.....

 

[La Louve]

Amber McMurtrey, 34, was shot six times in the arm and two times in the torso. The wife and mother of two girls has already been moved from the ICU and is starting physical therapy.

Prayers for continued healing for Amber.


http://www.katu.com/news/local/UCC-...ysical-therapy-amber-mcmurtrey-330789482.html

 

[La Louve]

Anastasia was shot in the back in the incident. She survived by playing dead until someone said it was over.

Boylan is still in the hospital and is expected to make a full recovery.

Prayers for continued healing for Anastasia.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Victim-speaks-out-about-UCC-shooting--330641021.html