OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

[SophieRose]

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-n...f/2015/10/new_details_emerge_on_umpqua_c.html

Sofia Camarena of Long Beach, California, told The Oregonian/OregonLive that she used to date Harper-Mercer's father."I used to change Chris' diapers when he was a baby," she said, upset after learning that he was the shooter in Thursday's massacre and was himself dead. "He was born with problems. He was hard to discipline. If you told him 'no,' he would scream like you had just hit him."

Camarena said that she had heard Harper-Mercer's mother was having "a hard time" with him and that he attended a special school.

Camarena said she last saw Harper-Mercer when he was 18 and she had asked him how he was doing. "He said he was doing good," said Camarena, whose son went on to marry Harper-Mercer's step-sister.

 

[La Louve]

It is strange to me. The minute we hit 18 we were gone. I am retired. I cannot believe kids want to live with their parents.

O/T Me too, I was out at 17. But back in the Pleistocene I could take a full load of classes per semester at the University of California for about $225 and maybe another $30-40 for all my textbooks. Everything is so much more expensive for young adults just starting out these days.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

America has it's own 'celebrity' culture thing going on that is very detrimental, imo.

It's just as bad here .. Also if you really want to see celebrity culture you should visit Korea or The Philippines!

 

[katydid23]

A 26 year old who was still living with his mother.....

I know plenty of 26 yr olds who still live at home. That in itself is not indicative of anything negative, imo. Our son moved home at 25 to save money for a down payment on a house. A year later he and his fiance bought their own home after saving money by living here.

Mercer was 26 but I think he had a lot of emotional and mental health issues which prevented him from working and paying his own way. JMO

 

[La Louve]

I know plenty of 26 yr olds who still live at home. That in itself is not indicative of anything negative, imo. Our son moved home at 25 to save money for a down payment on a house. A year later he and his fiance bought their own home after saving money by living here.

Mercer was 26 but I think he had a lot of emotional and mental health issues which prevented him from working and paying his own way. JMO

I agree that in itself is not a negative. But IMO it does speak to his lack of relationship with his father. He and his mother clearly did not have a healthy relationship.

 

[SophieRose]

How did Australia stop their mass shootings after Tasmania?

What do other nations do to deal with mental health? ( one thing is that they use psychotropic meds)

After Columbine, a Federal Law was passed that all schools practice a school lockdown 6 times a year.

There a a National School standards designed by architects which has the school design to deal with the issues of school shooters. The new schools in my districtt were made using those standards. I am sure they get updated.

We can all live in our armed and protected homes, never leave, have everything delivered by robots and have kids learn at home via cc TV and the internet.

Here's an article about the plot to shot up a school in Northern California that was foiled last week. So have they had lockdowns or not.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=117728&Itemid=1

[Summerville Union High School District Superintendent] Griffith told The Union Democrat after the press conference that an active shooter training for staff is scheduled for Oct. 15. He said he does not know if the school has held the training in the past.

The school schedules 10 drills a year, which can be either lockdown or fire drills.

Senior Sarah Boyer said she can not remember performing one lockdown drill while at the school.

Griffith said he has participated in several lockdown drills during his three years.

If students are unaware of the drills that presents another problem, he said.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Or a felon. You know how much work it is in Canada to legally obtain a gun? It is ridiculous!

http://www.howtogetagun.ca/

Or people in court ordered anger management classes or drug rehab .. I mean, just the basics .. You know.

 

[katydid23]

Legally it does. Lots of people just throw their kids out at 18, and that is their right to do that.


[Of course it is their right. but it is a pretty rotten thing to do. Especially with a special needs kid with emotional issues and severe depression. but hey, it's his right.]

He did not have custody of his son. So all of that was out of his control. It's pretty obvious that he does not agree with how the mother was raising his son.

[ Why would he have custody of a 26 yr old? If he was concerned with how he was being raised, wouldn't he want more time with him to try and correct the issues?]


I would guess the reason he did not see his son for two years was because they decided to move to Oregon.


[ My kids have moved out of state before and I managed to see them and stay in close contact. ]

If it was not for American gun culture, he would not have had the guns to carry out this terrible act. As for the need for better mental health, I don't disagree. I'm all for better mental health services. But that alone would not solve the problem. People can still commit gun crimes even while receiving mental health services, and many people just flat out refuse mental health services. So the only way to stop them, is to keep the guns away from them.

[ I agree that we should keep the guns out of the hands of the violent criminals and the mentally ill. But how to do that is the issue we are left with. Also, I thought some people here were arguing that mental health is NOT the issue and is a red herring? ]

My replies in bold

 

[human]

Here's an article about the plot to shot up a school in Northern California that was foiled last week. So have they had lockdowns or not.

http://www.uniondemocrat.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=117728&Itemid=1

[Summerville Union High School District Superintendent] Griffith told The Union Democrat after the press conference that an active shooter training for staff is scheduled for Oct. 15. He said he does not know if the school has held the training in the past.

The school schedules 10 drills a year, which can be either lockdown or fire drills.

Senior Sarah Boyer said she can not remember performing one lockdown drill while at the school.

Griffith said he has participated in several lockdown drills during his three years.

If students are unaware of the drills that presents another problem, he said.

Wow. Irresponsible!

The more drills you have, the more competent the adults become in handling a crisis.

This is the way of the US so they better get on board

 

[SophieRose]

What a narcisstic twit. At least he will be happy where he is going, He will have everything he wants.

I don't think you can reach people like him, can you?

ER sounded just the same, but he had tons of money.

That Norway shooter sounded the same as well. Entitled.

ER's family did not have money, that was a myth. It was one of the reasons why ER was so angry. He thought his mother should have married someone wealthy after the divorce, and his father refinanced his house to make a documentary that ended up losing money.

 

[KaaBoom]

O/T - I keep seeing this mentioned. Just curious, is that very unusual in the States? I wouldn't say it's very common in Australia, but it's not unusual either. A lot of 20 something people live with one or both parents while they work and save or study.

These days I'd say it's pretty common. If they have mental issues like this guy, it's common for them to still be living at home in their 30s or 40s.

 

[human]

What can we agree upon?

Divorce has an impact on some vulnerable boys, Is the age when it happens critical?

It seems the fathers had some interaction. The fathers are not totally absent.

The shooters feel entitled.

Isolated and lonely. No friends.

 

[katydid23]

How do you know that he walked away? They were the ones who moved away from him.

My answer was a reply to this statement:


"No, it was the mother who was raising him. Unless it can be proven that the father is lying when he said that he didn't know that his son had guns, he has no responsibility for this."


To me, the above implies that the father was walking away from any responsibility for his troubled special needs son. How does one decide that the mother 'was raising him?' Don't both parents raise a kid, regardless where they are living?

Since when does moving out of state mean the father does not need to stay involved and bonded?

 

[KaaBoom]

ITA. The notion that children -- especially sons, but also daughters -- don't need a father is wrong, and even dangerous. I would suspect that the lack of any meaningful father or father-figure in their lives plays a large role in the abnormal and anti-social development of many children. I believe that a lot of the dysfunction that we see today is due to that lack.

Well, about one-third of American children are in that situation, and most of them seem to deal with it OK. Unless they happen to have mental issues, and their mother fills their small apartment up with guns.

 

[sonjay]

Wow. Irresponsible!

The more drills you have, the more competent the adults become in handling a crisis.

This is the way of the US so they better get on board

I have to wonder if all those lockdown drills might not be contributing to the problem. A kid like the Oregon killer, the Sandy Hook killer, etc. -- not only do they see the notoriety and fame that other mass murderers get, but they go through these drills several times a year throughout their school years. During every drill, they're sitting there in the closet imagining the power of the person walking through the halls -- and coveting that power. Imagining themselves being the person "out there" who wields all that power.

 

[sonjay]

Well, about one-third of American children are in that situation, and most of them seem to deal with it OK. Unless they happen to have mental issues, and their mother fills their small apartment up with guns.

And the vast majority of gun owners seem to be law-abiding citizens who don't shoot people. How about extending them the same benefit of the doubt?

 

[GutInstinct]

The nytimes link below that ElleElle provided is worth the time to read. Heavy-duty. Wow. Just a very sad Wow.

Tks for posting Elle.

"Alexis Jefferson, who worked with Ms. Harper at a Southern California subacute care center around 2010, said the gunman’s mother sometimes confided the difficulties she had in raising her son, including that she had placed Mr. Harper-Mercer in a psychiatric hospital when he did not take his medication.

“She said that my son is a real big problem of mine,” Ms. Jefferson said in a telephone interview. “She said, ‘He has some psychological problems. Sometimes he takes his medication, sometimes he doesn’t. And that’s where the big problem is, when he doesn’t take his medication.’ ”

Ms. Jefferson said Ms. Harper had described bringing her son to the Del Amo Behavioral Health System in Torrance, Calif., near where they had lived before moving to Oregon.

“He calls and says, ‘Take me out, take me out,’ ” Ms. Jefferson said, recalling her conversations with Ms. Harper. “She didn’t take him out until the doctor said he was ready to get out.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/us/mother-of-oregon-gunman-wrote-of-keeping-firearms.html?_r=0

 

[CARIIS]

ER's family did not have money, that was a myth. It was one of the reasons why ER was so angry. He thought his mother should have married someone wealthy after the divorce, and his father refinanced his house to make a documentary that ended up losing money.

hi Miss S youre right I thougt they were affluent also!
http://www.cnn.com/2014/05/27/justice/california-elliot-rodger-wealth/

 

[CARIIS]

Or people in court ordered anger management classes or drug rehab .. I mean, just the basics .. You know.

I think underfunded mental health treatment in conjunction with many having like a 1950's aslum notion of what one suffering with a mental illiness behaves likw --ie talking to blue clouds homeeless etc. From recall here is actually are actually the vocations some of our recent mass shooters: Wiki

Navy contractor and former Navy man

In one of the toughest euro PHD program

college student full time
a driver for Hartford Distributors
a professor
U.S. army psychologist
high school student
car mechanic
secret-level security clearance valid for ten years.
building technician
worked at his family's business
ABB power plant employee
truck rental business
Harvard graduate
published papers in journals
engineering student
own painting business
active in a number of civic and charitable organizations i
US Postal Service employee
high school teacher
sheriff's deputy
Lockheed Martin employee
Xerox service technician,
Day trader
Lottery worker
metallurgist

 

[La Louve]

I think underfunded mental health treatment in conjunction with many having like a 1950's aslum notion of what one suffering with a mental illiness behaves likw --ie talking to blue clouds homeeless etc. From recall here is actually are actually the vocations some of our recent mass shooters: Wiki

Navy contractor and former Navy man

In one of the toughest euro PHD program

college student full time
a driver for Hartford Distributors
a professor
U.S. army psychologist
high school student
car mechanic
secret-level security clearance valid for ten years.
building technician
worked at his family's business
ABB power plant employee
truck rental business
Harvard graduate
published papers in journals
engineering student
own painting business
active in a number of civic and charitable organizations i
US Postal Service employee
high school teacher
sheriff's deputy
Lockheed Martin employee
Xerox service technician,
Day trader
Lottery worker
metallurgist

that list seems to be missing "basement recluse"