OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

[human]

I don't think so!
I just googled it at heathcare.gov and tried to copy and paste but my tablet will not let me.

They can stay on the parents insurance plan until they turn 26 years old
Children can join and remain on a parents plan even if they are........
Married
Not living with theit parents
Attending school
Not claimed as a dependent on their parents tax
Eligible to enroll in their employers plan
All this from healthcare.gov

That is good as many kids are drowning in student loan debt and their jobs do not pay much.

I think everyone should have health care but I think kids are too coddled nowadays.

We were out of the house at 18 by our choice, As teens we babysat, mowed lawns, delievered papers, helped with parent's businesses .

Kids should be doing things to learn responsiblity and self confidence and that comes from doing things.

I think parents feel the pressure for kids to succeed and they do way too much for them. Like stay out of the kid's sporting events for one thing.

Then we have the parents who aren't involved af all. We need parenting classes in schools

 

[La Louve]

Okay....IMO this is very significant. If this guy wanted out of a psychiatric hospital I am sure he made that VERY clear to the staff. Neighbors say he would freak out over minor things. This should have been REPORTED!

The federal laws are an absolute joke....talk about hypocrisy....

While the feds have tried to pass numerous laws banning various weapons in the name of "public safety" they NEVER passed a law requiring states to report dangerous mentally ill individuals committed to psychiatric hospitals!

They force every state to USE the system to screen out dangerous individuals but they don't care about collecting data on dangerous mentally ill folks?





So as of March 2014 -- more than a YEAR after Sandy Hook many states weren't reporting and the feds just plain didn't care! Look at the numbers! MA and Alaska have ONE dangerous crazy person? And RI doesn't have any? And no one questioned that?



IMO that clearly shows the agenda is NOT about public safety.

When you say the "feds" don't care and didn't pass laws, you are really speaking about Congress, the lawmakers. The FBI, ATF etc cannot act on a law if Congress doesn't first pass a law.

We should all remember this when we vote for our elected representatives.

 

[leah]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mo...g-firearms/ar-AAf84rl?li=AAa0dzB&ocid=SK2ADHP


She also opened up about her difficulties raising a son who used to bang his head against the wall, and said that both she and her son struggled with Asperger’s syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder. She tried to counsel others whose children faced similar problems. All the while, she expressed hope that her son could lead a successful life in finance or as a filmmaker.
(But she still thought having guns around the house made sense.)

 

[Dogface]

The way this discussion is going makes me think of the quote "prepare the child for the path not the path for the child", and I have said this in many threads but I think as a society we do not have high emotional intelligence, and I think that explains a lot of the reasons so many people find themselves struggling.

 

[ILOKAL]

My kid is 24, lives on her own (college grad) and is still on her dad's (different state) policy.

He might have been receiving disability (SSDI/SSI) in which case he would have had Medicare and even state Medicaid.

 

[Hatfield]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/mo...g-firearms/ar-AAf84rl?li=AAa0dzB&ocid=SK2ADHP


She also opened up about her difficulties raising a son who used to bang his head against the wall, and said that both she and her son struggled with Asperger’s syndrome, an autism spectrum disorder. She tried to counsel others whose children faced similar problems. All the while, she expressed hope that her son could lead a successful life in finance or as a filmmaker.
(But she still thought having guns around the house made sense.)

I found it eye opening that multiple people have said he would yell out to get his way. I think I read that a neighbor would hear him throwing tantrums to get his way. It is a tactic that 2 year olds use to get their way. He was so immature mentally.

I suspect his Mom caved in to his tantrums and basically let him have and do whatever he wanted just to calm him down. Which is an approach that causes huge issues in the long run.

Allowing him and encouraging him with owning and shooting guns was a terrible decision obviously. I wonder if she thought she was teaching him more adult responsibility. It was obviously a foolish plan although I think we have seen this before where an adult thinks it is teaching a kid more responsibility when the child is in no condition or no age to be ready for that.

His situation with his mental condition meant he was not a candidate for gun ownership. And never would be.

Here are other examples that I can think of that may have made similar mistakes with the totally wrong person. These people were either not ready for this and some like Adam and him may never be a candidate for using guns as a teaching tool or therapy tool.

I may be wrong of some of the motivations so just guessing here at some of these based on what I read. So JMO of course.

-Adam Lanza. Maybe Mom thought she was teaching him more responsibility. Wrong person as he had serious mental issues.

-The young girl that was being taught to use a fully automatic weapon and she was so young she did not have the strength to hold the weapon and she lost control and she shot her instructor as the gun went wildly out of control. She was way too young and had no muscle strength.
This example is a very cautious tale for people who want to teach very young children. They need to be sure adequate muscle strength is there first before ever considering teaching a young person.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ith-an-uzi-said-the-gun-was-too-much-for-her/

-the mentally disturbed person that was offered help with Post Traumatic Stress and went to the shooting range with Chris Kyle. This type of therapy can actually be good for some Post Traumatic Stress patients but obviously that person was not a good candidate. This example shows how hard it is to identify which mentally ill person is going to end up being a murderer.

-The Oregon shooter. Not sure what Moms motives were but I have to guess that she was trying to teach him more adult responsibility. She may have erroneously felt it was helping him go to the gun range with her. Totally wrong person who obviously had severe mental issues. Its just not safe when someone is that disturbed.

 

[Jinkasaurus]

This is a great article on the very issue we are all trying to figure out- what can possibly be done to prevent the next mass shooting. One thing I learned from this article was that there have been way more of these events prevented than I had heard about in the news.

Inside the Race to Stop the Next Mass Shooter

This article focuses on several things- the threat assessment process, including real life examples, research on mass shootings, data on the copycat effect in play since Colombine - and much more.

In the case of this Oregon shooter, I believe that the people on the internet forum who were reading his posts, even egging him on, bear some responsibility for this event. I believe the authorities would have taken action if they had been alerted to those postings. I feel that even more so having read that article.

Given the place he was posting on the internet, I'm not sure how easily they could have identified him, but I think they would have tried. If his location/identity wasn't traceable from this posts, the police or FBI could have created fake profiles and tried to engage with him until he revealed enough info to figure out who/where he was.

 

[human]

He might have been receiving disability (SSDI/SSI) in which case he would have had Medicare and even state Medicaid.

Medicare is for the elderly like me,

 

[ILOKAL]

Medicare is for the elderly like me,

No, that's not correct. Anyone who is disabled and receives SSDI also receives Medicare.

 

[human]

This is a great article on the very issue we are all trying to figure out- what can possibly be done to prevent the next mass shooting. One thing I learned from this article was that there have been way more of these events prevented than I had heard about in the news.

Inside the Race to Stop the Next Mass Shooter

This article focuses on several things- the threat assessment process, including real life examples, research on mass shootings, data on the copycat effect in play since Colombine - and much more.

In the case of this Oregon shooter, I believe that the people on the internet forum who were reading his posts, even egging him on, bear some responsibility for this event. I believe the authorities would have taken action if they had been alerted to those postings. I feel that even more so having read that article.

Given the place he was posting on the internet, I'm not sure how easily they could have identified him, but I think they would have tried. If his location/identity wasn't traceable from this posts, the police or FBI could have created fake profiles and tried to engage with him until he revealed enough info to figure out who/where he was.

A must read. Hopefully teachers in the US will be required to take a course about this in order to be licensed

 

[human]

No, that's not correct. Anyone who is disabled and receives SSDI also receives Medicare.

Wow. I never knew that. You are right. I alway thought it was some kind of special insurance for disabled. I have a former friend who has managed to get on disability and she told me about some incredibly low premium she pays for health care-- like $47/ month. Probably a lie just like the disability

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

 

[Hatfield]

This is a great article on the very issue we are all trying to figure out- what can possibly be done to prevent the next mass shooting. One thing I learned from this article was that there have been way more of these events prevented than I had heard about in the news.

Inside the Race to Stop the Next Mass Shooter

This article focuses on several things- the threat assessment process, including real life examples, research on mass shootings, data on the copycat effect in play since Colombine - and much more.

In the case of this Oregon shooter, I believe that the people on the internet forum who were reading his posts, even egging him on, bear some responsibility for this event. I believe the authorities would have taken action if they had been alerted to those postings. I feel that even more so having read that article.

Given the place he was posting on the internet, I'm not sure how easily they could have identified him, but I think they would have tried. If his location/identity wasn't traceable from this posts, the police or FBI could have created fake profiles and tried to engage with him until he revealed enough info to figure out who/where he was.

This is a "Must Read" for sure. Amazing article and it hits home a lot of the things we have discussed.

A great article and I hope it starts to get attention because the article did a good job of introducing possible ways to prevent the next one. I especially like this one comment the article made:

"Simply realizing that authorities are watching can be an effective deterrent"

From this past Oregon shooting I think the anonymous part was a big deal for that person. If he had been called out by LE or school administrators before he did what he did then I think there would have been a chance to stop him.

I think he enjoyed being isolated and anonymous. Probably relishing that nobody knew what he was planning. These type of people need to be outed before they can act.

 

[Sonya610]

When you say the "feds" don't care and didn't pass laws, you are really speaking about Congress, the lawmakers. The FBI, ATF etc cannot act on a law if Congress doesn't first pass a law.

I used the term "feds" to avoid violating the rules on politics.

Certain individuals were pushing HARD for new laws after Sandy Hook and those folks were acting at the Federal Level.

 

[ElleElle]

I have never seen these photos before. He appears to be a nice, young man.

Link ~ https://heavyeditorial.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/mercer-2.jpg?quality=65&strip=all&w=780

 

[ILOKAL]

Wow. I never knew that. You are right. I alway thought it was some kind of special insurance for disabled. I have a former friend who has managed to get on disability and she told me about some incredibly low premium she pays for health care-- like $47/ month. Probably a lie just like the disability

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

Well, Medicare isn't free, that's for sure. However, some people who receive Medicare are also in a lower income bracket that also qualifies them for subsidies from the state. In some cases, the state regulated Medicaid pays their Medicare premium, their prescription drug coverage, and all of their co-pays. Others in a higher but yet still low income bracket may not get ALL of those things paid but will get a portion of them paid.

 

[ElleElle]

Good read too!

"Civilian Internet sleuths took it upon themselves to root out a suspect … except they got it completely wrong, leaving an innocent person fearing for his life after his name was widely circulated online and beyond.

Surely, this is not the kind of incident police forces want to encourage — and it’s something they can stop before it even starts by practicing complete openness and transparency (short of compromising investigations, of course) in their dealings with the public.

When police act as censors, intentionally or not, they aren’t serving or protecting anyone."

http://www.calgarysun.com/2015/10/0...rper-mercers-name-and-who-he-was-is-important

 

[Jinkasaurus]

This is a "Must Read" for sure. Amazing article and it hits home a lot of the things we have discussed.

A great article and I hope it starts to get attention because the article did a good job of introducing possible ways to prevent the next one. I especially like this one comment the article made:

"Simply realizing that authorities are watching can be an effective deterrent"

From this past Oregon shooting I think the anonymous part was a big deal for that person. If he had been called out by LE or school administrators before he did what he did then I think there would have been a chance to stop him.

I think he enjoyed being isolated and anonymous. Probably relishing that nobody knew what he was planning. These type of people need to be outed before they can act.

I'm glad you enjoyed the article as much as I did. What I really liked about it was that it moved past the whole false dichotomy of gun control / mental health treatment that I see most conversations about these shootings eventually fall into. Overly simplistic and dualistic IMO.

This article finally delves into the area between the guns and the mental health treatment.

I also appreciated how they identified the role that technology (ie, internet and social media) is playing in the pattern of increased mass shootings. I liked that they talked about how killers being inspired by other killers is not limited to the time since Colombine, but that the internet now makes this "inspiration" so much easier and quicker.

It makes sense- you have a lonely, socially marginalized guy who is nursing his feelings of retribution, sitting at home alone with a computer connected to the internet. There he can spend endless hours obsessively reading about other shooters and talking to people in forums who will share and encourage his feelings.

A kid back in the 70's or 80's could be on the same mental/social trajectory, but he might have much, much less exposure to material that supported his thoughts/feelings.

And then we have the whole issue of access to guns. Adam Lanza, this shooter, and Kip Kinkel are three that I can think of where the family members themselves supported and encouraged gun use and possession. Elliott Rodgers, James Holmes. and Seung-Hui Cho had the mental wherewithal, financial resources, and independence that enabled them to purchase their own guns.

I felt the article addressed the true complexity of this issue, while also pointing toward one method that appears to actually be working to prevent some of these events from occurring again.

 

[ElleElle]

I'm glad you enjoyed the article as much as I did. What I really liked about it was that it moved past the whole false dichotomy of gun control / mental health treatment that I see most conversations about these shootings eventually fall into. Overly simplistic and dualistic IMO.

This article finally delves into the area between the guns and the mental health treatment.

I also appreciated how they identified the role that technology (ie, internet and social media) is playing in the pattern of increased mass shootings. I liked that they talked about how killers being inspired by other killers is not limited to the time since Colombine, but that the internet now makes this "inspiration" so much easier and quicker.

It makes sense- you have a lonely, socially marginalized guy who is nursing his feelings of retribution, sitting at home alone with a computer connected to the internet. There he can spend endless hours obsessively reading about other shooters and talking to people in forums who will share and encourage his feelings.

A kid back in the 70's or 80's could be on the same mental/social trajectory, but he might have much, much less exposure to material that supported his thoughts/feelings.

And then we have the whole issue of access to guns. Adam Lanza, this shooter, and Kip Kinkel are three that I can think of where the family members themselves supported and encouraged gun use and possession. Elliott Rodgers, James Holmes. and Seung-Hui Cho had the mental wherewithal, financial resources, and independence that enabled them to purchase their own guns.

I felt the article addressed the true complexity of this issue, while also pointing toward one method that appears to actually be working to prevent some of these events from occurring again.

Thank you Jinkasaurus! Great read and ITS agree with everything you said! :cheers:

 

[Hatfield]

I'm glad you enjoyed the article as much as I did. What I really liked about it was that it moved past the whole false dichotomy of gun control / mental health treatment that I see most conversations about these shootings eventually fall into. Overly simplistic and dualistic IMO.

This article finally delves into the area between the guns and the mental health treatment.

I also appreciated how they identified the role that technology (ie, internet and social media) is playing in the pattern of increased mass shootings. I liked that they talked about how killers being inspired by other killers is not limited to the time since Colombine, but that the internet now makes this "inspiration" so much easier and quicker.

It makes sense- you have a lonely, socially marginalized guy who is nursing his feelings of retribution, sitting at home alone with a computer connected to the internet. There he can spend endless hours obsessively reading about other shooters and talking to people in forums who will share and encourage his feelings.

A kid back in the 70's or 80's could be on the same mental/social trajectory, but he might have much, much less exposure to material that supported his thoughts/feelings.

And then we have the whole issue of access to guns. Adam Lanza, this shooter, and Kip Kinkel are three that I can think of where the family members themselves supported and encouraged gun use and possession. Elliott Rodgers, James Holmes. and Seung-Hui Cho had the mental wherewithal, financial resources, and independence that enabled them to purchase their own guns.

I felt the article addressed the true complexity of this issue, while also pointing toward one method that appears to actually be working to prevent some of these events from occurring again.

Absolutely and you summed it up perfectly. Thanks.

:yourock:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I can't imagine this guy being capable of holding down a job, not with his emotional problems. It does boggle the mind that everyone who knew these two not only knew that he had temper tantrums and had psychiatric problems, but that there were a number of guns in the home and the mother had enough of a fixation to sling one over her shoulder and wander about outside with it .. clearly a bad combination, and a situation headed for disaster in one way or another.