OR - Nine killed in Umpqua Community College shooting, Roseburg, 1 Oct 2015 - #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
I can't imagine this guy being capable of holding down a job, not with his emotional problems. It does boggle the mind that everyone who knew these two not only knew that he had temper tantrums and had psychiatric problems, but that there were a number of guns in the home and the mother had enough of a fixation to sling one over her shoulder and wander about outside with it .. clearly a bad combination, and a situation headed for disaster in one way or another.

I think that is one aspect that makes these incidents so maddening (independent of the sheer horror and trauma inflicted on the victims/families/communities)..... when we look at the details of these cases, the red flags are just so obvious.

Unfortunately, it generally takes humans a long time to figure out solutions to complex social problems. So now, because there have been so many of these incidents, we are starting to get enough information to figure out how to prevent some of them.

One example of this- what did the police learn from Colombine? They learned that they need to rush to the shooter and confront him as quickly as possible. Before Colombine, they did not do that. So while that doesn't solve the problem of their initial victims being killed, it probably has decreased the number of people killed in each of these events.
 
you know what just hit me, it strikes me as somwhat interesting, at least in the contex f Lanza and Mercer it was the moms that were talking there sons to gun heaven.

I think we can all concur that for each of us music when young it imapcted us Our stuff was mountains not "hgh enough" with lots of sweet violins and horns!

this generation is inundated with screaming hateful and anger, about being disenfrahchisd

songs that yelling about bling and expesive cars, refering to the female entity as bit%, *advertiser censored*, wothing of giving them ssex, killing cops and juidges etc etc has to over time lead a different notions about living

The Way We Were (!) compared to
e
2. Fight The Power - Public Enemy
3. Nuthin But A "G" Thang - Dr. Dre

15. F-ck Tha Police - N.W.A
1
2pac - Wonder Why They Call You B***

Those songs were all released in the late 80s-early 90s, they're practically classics themselves - are kids still listening to these?? (well, I imagine f-ck the police has had a resurgence lately). But the biggest fans of those songs would be in their 30s-40s by now.
 
Just jumping in to say hello. This is a couple hours away from me but I don't have a tv, and have avoided watching or reading anything so far. Literally all I know is mr flourish's bestie's cousin was injured but survived. Wanted to get my news here. But anyway, hi everyone.

Sent from my LG-D321 using Tapatalk
 
Those songs were all released in the late 80s-early 90s, they're practically classics themselves - are kids still listening to these?? (well, I imagine f-ck the police has had a resurgence lately). But the biggest fans of those songs would be in their 30s-40s by now.
I'm pretty sure kids don't listen to those songs anymore, seeing as I know all those songs. Lol.

Sent from my LG-D321 using Tapatalk
 
Those songs were all released in the late 80s-early 90s, they're practically classics themselves - are kids still listening to these?? (well, I imagine f-ck the police has had a resurgence lately). But the biggest fans of those songs would be in their 30s-40s by now.

I'm pretty sure kids don't listen to those songs anymore, seeing as I know all those songs. Lol.

Sent from my LG-D321 using Tapatalk

Video of Armed Man Behind Patrol Car Was Part of Rap Group's 'Comeback' Attempt: LAPD
The video posted to Instagram shows a man, sitting in a vehicle parked behind an LAPD patrol car, holding what appears to be a handgun
By Patrick Healy and Jonathan Lloyd
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LAPD-Investigating-Social-Media-Threat-330814382.html

<snipped - read more @ Link>
____________

That video wasn't a threat against LAPD, just a '90s rap group looking for an attempt at a comeback...
Los Angeles Times&#8206; - 6 hours ago
Los Angeles police have arrested one person and are searching for another in connection ...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-officer-stalked-gunman-20151006-story.html
<snipped - read more @ Link>
 
Video of Armed Man Behind Patrol Car Was Part of Rap Group's 'Comeback' Attempt: LAPD
The video posted to Instagram shows a man, sitting in a vehicle parked behind an LAPD patrol car, holding what appears to be a handgun
By Patrick Healy and Jonathan Lloyd
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LAPD-Investigating-Social-Media-Threat-330814382.html

<snipped - read more @ Link>
____________

That video wasn't a threat against LAPD, just a '90s rap group looking for an attempt at a comeback...
Los Angeles Times&#8206; - 6 hours ago
Los Angeles police have arrested one person and are searching for another in connection ...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-officer-stalked-gunman-20151006-story.html
<snipped - read more @ Link>
Don't call it a comeback I've been here for years
 
Video of Armed Man Behind Patrol Car Was Part of Rap Group's 'Comeback' Attempt: LAPD
The video posted to Instagram shows a man, sitting in a vehicle parked behind an LAPD patrol car, holding what appears to be a handgun
By Patrick Healy and Jonathan Lloyd
http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/local/LAPD-Investigating-Social-Media-Threat-330814382.html

<snipped - read more @ Link>
____________

That video wasn't a threat against LAPD, just a '90s rap group looking for an attempt at a comeback...
Los Angeles Times&#8206; - 6 hours ago
Los Angeles police have arrested one person and are searching for another in connection ...

http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-officer-stalked-gunman-20151006-story.html
<snipped - read more @ Link>

I assume their comeback was unsuccessful? I've never heard of them then or now!
 
-The young girl that was being taught to use a fully automatic weapon and she was so young she did not have the strength to hold the weapon and she lost control and she shot her instructor as the gun went wildly out of control. She was way too young and had no muscle strength.

The fatal mistake in that case was the fact the instructor handed her a weapon with MULTIPLE rounds ready to fire. If a shooter may not be able to handle the recoil (which is what happened) then being able to fire only ONE shot keeps everyone safe if the shooter loses control.

To think a firearms instructor made that mistake with a 5 year old girl is mindblowing.
 
"The surviving victim with the most serious injuries is being treated at PeaceHealth Sacred Heart Medical Center.

She has been identified as 19-year-old Julie Woodworth. Doctors say she’s in critical but stable condition.


According to a message on her page, Woodworth was shot 10 times. Relatives told KOIN 6 News she was shot in her arms, knees and head.

She’s already undergone multiple surgeries and doctors say they will have to do more.

Snipped for brevity.

TEN TIMES?? She is one lucky girl to still be with us, I can't believe he shot her ten times and she survived.
 
oh my goodness am estatic~ compter has just been the PITTS! So over it. Using Firefox- the heck with it i am trying Chrome. Heavon heavon heavon, hope this stays this way!!!
 
I assume their comeback was unsuccessful? I've never heard of them then or now!



struck me as funny - that rap act , would beleive , that being hateful , would stand out from the majority of their competors

now if Streisand put out one.......................
 
I have never understood this. Why when all these bad things happen all the social media outlets remove them from the internet. To me it sounds and feels like cenorship?

Why jdo they do that-kinda frustrating cause I want to see them for myself- the ones you can get do add nuance to the story
 
I think that is one aspect that makes these incidents so maddening (independent of the sheer horror and trauma inflicted on the victims/families/communities)..... when we look at the details of these cases, the red flags are just so obvious.

Unfortunately, it generally takes humans a long time to figure out solutions to complex social problems. So now, because there have been so many of these incidents, we are starting to get enough information to figure out how to prevent some of them.

One example of this- what did the police learn from Colombine? They learned that they need to rush to the shooter and confront him as quickly as possible. Before Colombine, they did not do that. So while that doesn't solve the problem of their initial victims being killed, it probably has decreased the number of people killed in each of these events.

That is what I was trying to say in an earlier post. It just struck me. after everyone of these gun control and mental health surround the story.

It hit me that a really bigger part of the issue, is actually lay folks authentic lack of what mental illiness is, ts almost as if many many folks beliefs are like from 1950 Aslum days.

By that I mean most (I think this would be very American- pick yourself up by your bootstraps) as oppossed to grasping that it is a real entity. No different that dieabetes. Peroid. Its physical.

So it seems as if , for the masses unless one is talking to clouds they are not ill mentally, (when in fact very few , as this year has demonstrated , few in fact are talking to trees.

Its like if one is employed they cant be mentally ill nor dangerous. . I think if the masses were able to grasp how many varients of illiness (many types of cancers) the society in and of itself might possibly "catch" some of these individuals struggling with what might evolve into violent behaviors, cancer stage 1 2 etc

here are the vocations of the recent mass shooting actors:


Navy contractor and former Navy man


In one of the toughest euro PHD program

college student full time
a driver for Hartford Distributors
a professor
U.S. army psychologist
high school student
car mechanic
secret-level security clearance valid for ten years.
building technician
worked at his family's business
ABB power plant employee
truck rental business
Harvard graduate
published papers in journals
engineering student
own painting business
active in a number of civic and charitable organizations i
US Postal Service employee
high school teacher
sheriff's deputy
Lockheed Martin employee
Xerox service technician,
Day trader
Lottery worker
metallurgist

Most of the seriously ill are not psycotic, but as we are seeing can be violent

Maybe its time to do some education (like the your brains on drugs, Forest Fires, smoking, just getting in gear texting while driving) on the realities of what mental illiness ctually is

just a notion....
 
I'm glad you enjoyed the article as much as I did. What I really liked about it was that it moved past the whole false dichotomy of gun control / mental health treatment that I see most conversations about these shootings eventually fall into. Overly simplistic and dualistic IMO.

This article finally delves into the area between the guns and the mental health treatment.

I also appreciated how they identified the role that technology (ie, internet and social media) is playing in the pattern of increased mass shootings. I liked that they talked about how killers being inspired by other killers is not limited to the time since Colombine, but that the internet now makes this "inspiration" so much easier and quicker.

It makes sense- you have a lonely, socially marginalized guy who is nursing his feelings of retribution, sitting at home alone with a computer connected to the internet. There he can spend endless hours obsessively reading about other shooters and talking to people in forums who will share and encourage his feelings.

A kid back in the 70's or 80's could be on the same mental/social trajectory, but he might have much, much less exposure to material that supported his thoughts/feelings.

And then we have the whole issue of access to guns. Adam Lanza, this shooter, and Kip Kinkel are three that I can think of where the family members themselves supported and encouraged gun use and possession. Elliott Rodgers, James Holmes. and Seung-Hui Cho had the mental wherewithal, financial resources, and independence that enabled them to purchase their own guns.

I felt the article addressed the true complexity of this issue, while also pointing toward one method that appears to actually be working to prevent some of these events from occurring again.

awesome post
 
Well, Medicare isn't free, that's for sure. However, some people who receive Medicare are also in a lower income bracket that also qualifies them for subsidies from the state. In some cases, the state regulated Medicaid pays their Medicare premium, their prescription drug coverage, and all of their co-pays. Others in a higher but yet still low income bracket may not get ALL of those things paid but will get a portion of them paid.

IMO- and personal experience with pts, I came to the conclusion that bot Medicare and Medicaid superficially make those that "have" feel they are doing something while going to $25,000 a plate parties!

There is an inverted deal here. It is true the more acute the illiness, the resouces go up a little, while completely ignoring the realities of the more acute.

Makes many feel society is not throwing the metally ill off a cliff. But as a society we do.

Its great to say there meds will be covered. Totally forgetting that , the very acute, cant work, dont have a car, dont have the reality orientation to either remeber to take their meds, to remeber to get med checks, remebmer to pick them up.

There are all kinds of "porgrams" out there. I worked with the disenfrached youth. Its awesome go to anger management class. Well how does that happen. Mom is working at Mcdonalds full time, and KFC 10 hours a week.

How is mom gonna get him /her to the class? There are fees for the classes. There is gas money / tolls that she does not have. She frequently gets fired over and over cause if the car will start , and there is gas in the car, and she asked for some time off (unpaid) she make it once or twice.

Then employers fire her cause she is requesting time off regualily (the anger management is usually 1x week)

mom then gets reported as non compliant with anger management order. She has to go to court for non compliance. She has no job, no money, her car battery needs to be replaced, how is she suppossed to go to court? She cant go job hunting becasue her car is out, she needs to be in court.

So she makes it to one psyc appointment in and is given RX for her child. So now she is supposedly to go job hunting, make court, have to meet with the probation officer,go stand in line for a free month of electricty.

When and how does our society expect an individual in that situation to "comply" . I forgot to tell you there are three siblings, one of them is running a fever of 102, she asks her brother to give her a ride to the free clinic , which has a 5 hour wait. Brother has to go to work, so now she is waiting in a clinic with no way home, so she ends up stuck there until her sister can come get them.

During all this time the other siblings are alone, a neighbor reports it now social services is involved and comes for a visit unannounced. The power has yet to be resumed, so now mom is charged with endangering her children.

With social services now involved there are a whole bunch of new court records. She still has probation involved, and they like pop ins- if she is not there that is a violation.

So single mom is - through our "helpful" programs that help expects one :

Be able to get the cild to the anger management class on time everytime,meet with the social worker as ordered or in surprise visits, get to the therapist 1 x per week. get med eval every 30 days, work full time, supervise her children when school lets out.

With all the stress in the one bedroom apt the 5 live in another sibling starts acting out in school. Teacher who has no clue about moms realities, requests a conferance which mom cant make which is reported to social angency.

He continues to act out and gets suspended for 10 days. Now we have a 10 year old with no school, no adult supervison , he gets into mischef at home and the police are called, and find a unsupervised ten year old and makes another report to social services.

They then began to try to take her parential rights away. She cant read but is given a 45 page legel thing on her pariental rights and what she needs to do.

Her first court hearing regarding losing her babies from her is in 2 weeks , the day before her tire went flat and she misses court.

Social services pops in the house and finds it in disarray.

Mom gets a DUi- so now mom needs to find bail, make it to court, go to drug classes, pay fines, pay court court costs.

There are only so many hours in a day guys........

The "haves" think there are resources out there for folks who need it -- it is a completly ineffective undoable sitution

Medicaid here, horrible they would mess my pts Rx , not get authorzation which means the person is thrown off there meds, and the caretaker has to make another trip to Rx.

Services for Adults are just as un doable - its sad for such an industilized nation

I am not writing fiction, I lived it with my folks, and slowly discovered that the system is actually escalating things.

My dream would be ( if we took all the money this would actualy be cheaper).

Make like campus - where the beneficary would be given place to live, school on campus for kids and adults, therapy services on campus. In exchange they work 40 hours in exchange and must be going to adult tech school. There can be no law invovment or criminal stuff or you are removed form the program. Child care is there as well where the kids are doing structured activities.

Pharmacy on campus, medical center there. Just think of the millions that could be saved just in paperwork - they get a card on campus, like a debit card and it is used all over campas for all the same servies we claim we give folks, on one account imagine the costs saved while providing doable upward mobility for the less fornuate

As a socieety we are throwing money at all these needs already - centrilize them, cost effective and 'doable"

Sounds like a fantasy , but at least our social programs would be doable, be providing opportuties for forward movement
 
Snipped for brevity.

TEN TIMES?? She is one lucky girl to still be with us, I can't believe he shot her ten times and she survived.

Well, one not so great head shot and the others hit limbs. He also could have used a rifle with standard .223 ammunition. Good thing the authorities got things under control quickly, if she had been at Columbine she probably would have bled to death.

We always hear about the kid that finds a gun and accidentally shoots someone with a "perfect" fatal shot. In reality that represents a very very small percentage of shootings, including the vast majority of intentional shootings (which explains why police fire off a LOT of rounds as fast as they can when they need to stop a threat).
 
This is a "Must Read" for sure. Amazing article and it hits home a lot of the things we have discussed.

A great article and I hope it starts to get attention because the article did a good job of introducing possible ways to prevent the next one. I especially like this one comment the article made:

"Simply realizing that authorities are watching can be an effective deterrent"

From this past Oregon shooting I think the anonymous part was a big deal for that person. If he had been called out by LE or school administrators before he did what he did then I think there would have been a chance to stop him.

I think he enjoyed being isolated and anonymous. Probably relishing that nobody knew what he was planning. These type of people need to be outed before they can act.

Oh my goodness after stubbling on him a few days ago ([h=1]Jacob Appelbaum) there is absol no way they can not find these guys - any of ya check him out -- there is no way [/h]
but there in a jam aren't (NSA BS) they cant do it casue as we all know:

NSA is not spying on us!

Ha! After listeneing to him I thought wow would this be a show - after the heads of Nsa lied for days to congress it would have been great for abblebaum to be the final act in front of congress -- all the others could indicted for perjury !!!!!!!!!!!

Heck that would be cheaper also , just pull up a school bus-(not limosenes) and haul em off to court its a win win get rid of a bunch liars -- open up a bunch of space for new folks at NSA --

or it could be interesting if someone that guy knows got spied on and something was going on with that person
what a hoot!
 
Saw this on my local news. I'm not sure if its been posted.


Jindal: Oregon gunman's father a "failure" who "owes us all an apology"

http://www.fox8live.com/story/30202...s-father-a-failure-who-owes-us-all-an-apology

How sensitive to a father who left an obviously strange woman. Seems like the father had a relationship with the son as the step kids know the killer and had relationships with him.

What a loser Jindahl is. Keeps showing it over and over again,
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
159
Guests online
2,185
Total visitors
2,344

Forum statistics

Threads
600,594
Messages
18,110,941
Members
230,992
Latest member
Clue Keeper
Back
Top