GUILTY OR - Pamela Wolosz, 52, killed, daughter injured, 12yo son charged, 10 Jan 2017

[Wyle_E_Coyote]

Considering the jab the husband made about her animals, I agree it can be taken many ways. My first thought was it could have been an attempt to be humorous. Maybe that was a little inside joke she had with family and friends.
.

Snipped for focus

The pet thing struck me as odd and awkward as well, but there is a comment on her Facebook about fostering. If she was passionate about animal rescue and fostering animals, I can see where it could have been intended as an affectionate remembrance of something that was important to her.

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[Ambitioned]

Thanks for furthering my education. I ran across Steam after I posted, while googling where to buy the Assassin game. I think I know the answer to this question (yes?) but just checking to find out if he could have been playing these games online with strangers? Is that possible? If so, that concerns me too. You're right. It is a whole different world and one that parents need to inform themselves about IMO.

Yes.

Some set their chat to friends only or off but yes, its so important that parents be aware. I know some in LE will join the gaming community to look for predators.

Here's a good article about it

And another one

 

[Lilibet]

I find the online predator issue to be very disturbing. In the linked story a 14 year old boy in England was groomed by an older teen who was the leader of his gaming group. The boy was turned against his mother (they had been close), taught to be deceptive, lured to the home of the older boy...and sadistically murdered.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ic-teenager-reveals-killer-taunts-prison.html

I'm going to a dark place, but what if the older boy wanted to groom the younger boy to kill his mother...a vicarious thrill kill for the older boy? Could that be done? Sort of a modern day programmed-to-kill Manchurian candidate? With the right younger boy, and enough grooming I think it might be possible.

I'm not saying that this was done to ZH, or that it's even likely. But children are groomed to kill (and even die doing it) in places like Afghanistan. Lee Malvo was taught to kill by his "father" resulting in the "Beltway shootings." I hope LE digs deeply in ZH's online contacts as they did when local gamer David Grubbs was brutally murdered here five years ago.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?155330-OR-David-Grubbs-23-Ashland-19-Nov-2011

I do think impulsive narcissistic rage and a handy weapon is the likely explanation for the stabbings. That's bad enough. I'd hate for it to be even more sinister, but the scenario entered my mind after reading about online video game predators, so I thought I'd just throw it out there so I'm not alone with my thoughts.

 

[dolls_]

Thank you for the welcome Lilibet! I'm glad to finally be a member here.

As someone familiar with Steam and online games, I don't think that ZH himself was a victim of such grooming unless LE says otherwise it but of course anything is possible. Even without full on grooming someone could have just made a suggestion or joke that was taken seriously or planted the idea in his head. When I was around his age someone decided to give me "instructions" on how to "get rid of" my family even though I had never asked for or wanted them. It was quite scary!

Personally I would think something like cyber bullying or the overall hostile environment of many competitive online games would be a more likely contributing factor than purposeful grooming. Its shocking what some kids will say to each other over a bad game! If he already had problems of some kind (mental, emotional, or otherwise) I could see how the high stress environment of competitive games, if he played them himself, might wear down on him and have some effect. Not everyone can handle environments like that even without the trash talking, insults, and general nastiness that are slung around constantly.

And when it comes to actually acquiring games, if a child is resourceful they could easily do so without detection if their parent doesn't monitor them or doesn't know to monitor for this. On Steam some games will drop items into your Steam inventory that you can sell in the Steam marketplace to buy other items, games, or add-ons for games. I've used that method before and it can be very profitable if you have rare items. They could also get games as a gift from a friend or free giveaway without their parents knowing.

Of course, JMO.

 

[glf]

Way too many games, way too much internet, too much sitting in the house on nice days. There is definitely not enough jumping rope, basketball, swimming, bike riding, or anything else most of us remember enjoying when we were kids. Now, young people can't put their kindle or cell phone down long enough to go bike riding with a friend because they might miss an important call, like Kelly called, and he broke up with Becky today! Like THAT couldn't wait! God forbid, every teen thinks they have to be the first person to spread the news.
Cellphones were gaining in popularity when my kids were in high school, and my answer was a firm "NO". I told them the only way they were going to get a phone was to get a job and pay for it themselves.

 

[fred&edna]

Father mentions wife and children in preface of co-authored book (published 2007). 'Seems he was stay-at-home dad while writing.


https://books.google.com/books?id=5... AND "Windows Developer" AND "Wolosz"&f=false

 

[Koshka]

Snipped for focus

The pet thing struck me as odd and awkward as well, but there is a comment on her Facebook about fostering. If she was passionate about animal rescue and fostering animals, I can see where it could have been intended as an affectionate remembrance of something that was important to her.

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That's how I took it (as an affectionate, almost joking remark), largely because that's undoubtedly how my husband would describe me. I foster animals and it's a running joke between us: "How many animals am I coming home to today?" Said with a good -humored laugh, but if simply read on the internet, it could be interpreted many ways. Reading what her husband wrote in its entirety, it seems to me like an affectionate remark.

 

[Ambitioned]

I do think impulsive narcissistic rage and a handy weapon is the likely explanation for the stabbings. That's bad enough. I'd hate for it to be even more sinister, but the scenario entered my mind after reading about online video game predators, so I thought I'd just throw it out there so I'm not alone with my thoughts.

You and dolls_ have good points! The cyberbullying is pretty bad. I saw it on Minecraft when I watched my brother play. "Lol noob!!!" "You're such an idiot!" "Lelel L2play." Some were egging him to give them money. I told him not to give ANYTHING away. And now he just doesn't play anymore. Maybe some Yahtzee or Solitaire.

I'm not slamming online games. I just think with children we have to be more watchful. Children are so trusting. They really don't know if someone has bad intentions when they say, "Hey what's your Skype? Get on Skype and we'll chat!" And then there's the predators who pretend to be 13-14.

I hope LE digs deeply in ZH's online contacts as they did when local gamer David Grubbs was brutally murdered here five years ago.

Oh me too!!

I'm so sorry about David. That's so tragic :rose:

 

[Lilibet]

Way too many games, way too much internet, too much sitting in the house on nice days. There is definitely not enough jumping rope, basketball, swimming, bike riding, or anything else most of us remember enjoying when we were kids. Now, young people can't put their kindle or cell phone down long enough to go bike riding with a friend because they might miss an important call, like Kelly called, and he broke up with Becky today! Like THAT couldn't wait! God forbid, every teen thinks they have to be the first person to spread the news.
Cellphones were gaining in popularity when my kids were in high school, and my answer was a firm "NO". I told them the only way they were going to get a phone was to get a job and pay for it themselves.

Childhood has definitely changed. I liked to read, but my mom kicked me out of the house to go play with the many neighborhood kids...hopscotch, jumprope, tag, four square, hide and seek, etc. I have fond memories.

Another factor in this case is where he lived. This is a neighborhood of expensive homes high in the hills above Ashland. It's not a neighborhood full of kids. His house has no real yard that I can see. The streets are steep...a ball would roll forever, riding a bike is daunting because once you ride downhill, you have to walk the bike back home...and it's a long, extremely steep walk up Morton St. Unless a parent drove him to a flatter place to ride or took up mountain biking with him it's not likely to happen.

So where he lived was conducive to staying inside alone on the computer, unless he was into playing in the woods behind his house. Based on one of his Mom's groups on FB, he was a Boy Scout, so at least there was that. But to live in a true neighborhood with other kids playing outside you have to live in the flatter, relatively less expensive tract development part of Ashland like Quiet Village or a few other places like the area around Garfield Park near the Middle School.

 

[Lilibet]

I was sure that the Ashland Police Department would have help in this investigation. This was in earlier articles, but I overlooked it. From the City of Ashland website, here is a list of investigating agencies.

The Major Assault and Death Investigation Unit has been activated and detectives from the Oregon State Police, Medford Police, Jackson County Sheriff's Office and Central Point Police are assisting in the investigation.

The Jackson County District Attorney's office is also on scene and is assisting as needed.

http://www.ashland.or.us/News.asp?NewsID=3679

 

[Jinkasaurus]

Its not exactly the same type of case, but there are some parallels in terms of a teen committing violent murder.

For those interested in this case, if you haven't read it, Sue Klebold, the mother of Dylan Klebold, one of the Colombine shooters, wrote a book last year and it is an excellent read. She weaves her family story with research on brain development and other issues. Its really a very eye-opening book. Link to her book on Amazon.

 

[glf]

Love your kitty-kitty. Several years ago, when I watched a show about the above mentioned boys, although I can't remember which one, told his counselor he didn't like the med he was on, because it made him feel weird and have terrible thoughts. Instead of listening to him, and trying a different med, the gave him the very same med he had complained about, just under a different manufacturer. I think he should have had his licence yanked over that baloney. No wonder things got continually worse for him. To think that there is even a slim chance this could have been prevented, had the doc listened to him, as opposed to making the situation worse, just makes me sick!
:stormingmad::deadhorse:

 

[Lilibet]

Something just popped into my head...

What If ZH was trying to stab his sister and his Mom intervened and was killed? I've assumed that PW was the target, but we don't really know, do we?
I suppose the fact that his sister wasn't killed before LE arrived would indicate that she wasn't the target, unless she managed to escape somehow and lock a door. I guess it's just slightly easier for me to imagine a sibling fight leading to a stabbing than a fight with Mom (not that any of it is imaginable). Of course it's possible they were both his targets. If so, was grandma next? What was he thinking?! Or feeling?

 

[Ambitioned]

Something just popped into my head...

What If ZH was trying to stab his sister and his Mom intervened and was killed? I've assumed that PW was the target, but we don't really know, do we?
I suppose the fact that his sister wasn't killed before LE arrived would indicate that she wasn't the target, unless she managed to escape somehow and lock a door. I guess it's just slightly easier for me to imagine a sibling fight leading to a stabbing than a fight with Mom (not that any of it is imaginable). Of course it's possible they were both his targets. If so, was grandma next? What was he thinking?! Or feeling?

On his dad's FB page someone commented they hoped he gets the care and help he needs.

Someone else made a comment about how good triumphs evil and a family member responded that there is no evil, just tragedy. I think there was a trigger and he snapped, attacking mom and sis. But that's just speculation on my part.

All we can do is wait and watch, as your avatar says

 

[Ambitioned]

Obituary

 

[Lilibet]

According to Pam's obituary she homeschooled her son through 5th grade, so this would be his first year in public school if he's in 6th grade, as I assume he is. This might explain why the school had not observed any problems since September, or they may not have been visible. Ashland Middle School has grades 6-8, putting him at the bottom of school pecking order if it exists there.

This year winter break was extended one week because of snow. School reopened on Monday January 9, so he had been back in school one day (if he attended) after a three week break before he attacked his mother and sister.

His Dad had been out of town and flew home early. It's hard to know how long he had already been gone and would have been gone.

Whether any of this information has any significance in explaining what happened is hard to know. But I think it helps to know some of the things going on in his life.

http://www.ashland.k12.or.us/SectionIndex.asp?SectionID=42

http://www.litwillersimonsen.com/obituaries/Pamela-Wolosz/#!/Obituary

 

[Zuri]

Something just popped into my head...

What If ZH was trying to stab his sister and his Mom intervened and was killed? I've assumed that PW was the target, but we don't really know, do we?
I suppose the fact that his sister wasn't killed before LE arrived would indicate that she wasn't the target, unless she managed to escape somehow and lock a door. I guess it's just slightly easier for me to imagine a sibling fight leading to a stabbing than a fight with Mom (not that any of it is imaginable). Of course it's possible they were both his targets. If so, was grandma next? What was he thinking?! Or feeling?

I read in the obituary that she served our country in the military for 20 years and they moved frequently. With that in mind, maybe it was she who tried to prevent the stabbing of her daughter.

Upthread, someone thought they had found the son's twitter account. The person pictured looked like a man with a full beard, not a 12 yo. I may be very confused and have the pic mixed up as the ad.

I am truly saddened by this tragedy.

 

[Ambitioned]

I read in the obituary that she served our country in the military for 20 years and they moved frequently. With that in mind, maybe it was she who tried to prevent the stabbing of her daughter.

Upthread, someone thought they had found the son's twitter account. The person pictured looked like a man with a full beard, not a 12 yo. I may be very confused and have the pic mixed up as the ad.

I am truly saddened by this tragedy.

That was just something re-tweeted, not a picture of the account holder himself. His sister has a picture on her FB cover photo of a group including a boy about 11 or 12. May or may not be him.

As for homeschooling, that bit is very interesting. Not to open up a box of worms but I knew kids who had been homeschooled then started school and it was very stressful. Sadly there was some bullying. If this is what happened here you are right, it would give us more insight into his situation. (Not to excuse his actions of course). I'm confused why he would feel attack her, unless she was mean to him. But then again so many commit acts of violence and we don't understand why. JMO, MOO, etc.

 

[Lilibet]

That was just something re-tweeted, not a picture of the account holder himself. His sister has a picture on her FB cover photo of a group including a boy about 11 or 12. May or may not be him.

As for homeschooling, that bit is very interesting. Not to open up a box of worms but I knew kids who had been homeschooled then started school and it was very stressful. Sadly there was some bullying. If this is what happened here you are right, it would give us more insight into his situation. (Not to excuse his actions of course). I'm confused why he would feel attack her, unless she was mean to him. But then again so many commit acts of violence and we don't understand why. JMO, MOO, etc.

BBM

Not him in the picture.

I agree about the stress of starting school after being homeschooled for some kids. Even though he had likely been in scouts and other activities after they moved here, it's still hard to fit in. Our daughter started middle school when we moved here. She was going into ninth grade and had always gone to public school. At that time middle school was 7-9. At least she was more mature than a sixth grader, but it was hard. She survived and made friends and eventually stopped being mad at us for being "mean" and moving her here. Later she thanked us.

I think what a kid considers "mean" and what really is mean can be miles apart. I'm sure most of us accused our parents of being mean when they were simply preventing us from doing something harmful, as good parents will. But to a kid who has "issues" and is prone to being a "wound collector," one argument can be the last straw. Not saying that happened here. We may never know.

Fascinating article on the danger of wound collectors...
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/spycatcher/201509/wound-collectors

 

[Lilibet]

A heartfelt and heartbreaking letter from Jim Holmes to the community of Ashland.

Thanks to community
Dear Ashland,

On Tuesday, Jan. 10, my family was struck by an unimaginable tragedy that left my wife dead, my daughter with severe injuries, my mother-in-law traumatized and my son facing years in the legal and mental health care systems.

Ashland's community response was immediate, and a blessing. My daughter's high school friends were in the hospital waiting room scant hours after the incident. Others in the community reached out with food and housing for family members who traveled to support us. Still others wrote wonderful notes of comfort to our entire family - including my son, who could have been easily ostracized.

I've lived in small towns nearly all my childhood and adult life. The scale of Ashland's outpouring was unexpected and a source of great comfort during this time of indescribable grief.

We have a very long, difficult journey ahead of us. It's made much easier by the love, prayers and support we've had from this wonderful city.

Thank you. Thank you all.
Jim Holmes and family
Ashland

http://www.mailtribune.com/opinion/20170126/letters-to-editor-jan-26